<p>My S is down to these two...and they are without a doubt different! He is very involved in the arts (musical and visual), but is also a passionate learner in all subjects. He knows that the arts at Choate are quite strong, but is attracted to what he perceives as a tremendous community spirit at SPS (because of the 100% boarding, undoubtedly).
So, in no particular order, a few questions:
- which school is more academically rigorous? Overall and in particular subjects?
- are certain departments stronger at one school or another?
- which school has more focused students (hard to judge I am sure)?
- SPS arts and music - lots of change coming - new heads of art and music departments...any idea what the future holds?
- cultural differences between the two? I get the idea that all-boarding at SPS can be a deciding factor for some...why is that? Would an environment like Choate, with 25% day students, be less cohesive somehow?
- does SPS community, perhaps because it is all-boarder, tend to squelch individuality or difference?
- are the arts at SPS good? Great? </p>
<p>Basically, he is not looking for an arts school like Interlochen - he really wants the most rigorous academic environment he can get with the added bonus of great educational opportunities in the arts. The attraction to SPS is strong, but that is in part because he somehow senses SPS is stronger academically than Choate...but SPS may have a slightly more dissolute student body (not sure where he gets this idea, other than from current students at SPS). Choate arts opportunities are strong...but so strong that they trump all other potential (and perhaps perceived-not-real) concerns? Hard to say, I know...depends on the student.</p>
<p>Any input welcome. Completely understand the notion of fit...in fact, that is the nature of the question, though in this case framed more broadly.</p>
<p>I can’t speak to Choate but, as an SPS parent, I’ll answer about SPS. </p>
<p>SPS is very strong in the arts from music to theater to the fine arts. The school places a lot of emphasis in the arts. Each student is required to take at least 1 year plus 1 term of arts classes but many take a lot more. My child was involved in 2 branches of the arts for all 4 years and an additional art focus for 3 years. It was a struggle schedule wise and not common to do but she definitely felt that the school met her artistic needs. I think the arts are one of SPS’ greatest strengths. There are changes taking place (so sorry to lose the Seatons to retirement - they are amazing). However, looking at past additions to staff - new theater director in past 5 or so years, new choir director this year - great selections have been made so I am hopeful that the same will be true for the new appointments. </p>
<p>We did not visit Choate but found a divide between day students and boarding students at many schools with the day student population 20% or over. This does not exist at SPS. All kids are in the same situation and it helps build unity and cohesion. I do not see any squelching of individuality. In fact, I find the kids that are most respected and admired are those that have their own individual spark/style/uniqueness. The majority of the students are smart enough to appreciate those who are genuine and unique. </p>
<p>I believe SPS places equal focus on all academic subjects and builds well-rounded students while allowing each student to follow interests and passions and specialize where decided. I can’t say that one department is stronger than another. However, with the new science and math building, there are amazing resources available for particular interests in those subjects, like astronomy (always been strong) and robotics (has strengthened over the past 5 years). Modern and classical languages are strong. There are a wide range of humanities electives open to upperclassmen. </p>
<p>Hopefully, you are attending revisits at both? I definitely think that will help. Either way, congrats on having 2 great choices - you can’t lose. :)</p>
<p>While both are top tier schools (with SPS being generally considered more pretigious by people who are familiar with BS scenes), there are some distinctive differences between them. If size (~550 students in SPS vs. ~850 in Choate) and location (SPS rural and “secluded” vs Choate suburban and “open”) don’t help you, consider academic programs (Choate has a few “specilized” programs designed for upperclassmen meant to help students concentrating more on the subject(s)they are more interested in while SPS doesn’t have those programs), and “administrative styles” (SPS gives students a lot more freedom while Choate is more “controlled” in terms of study hour admistration and Internet access etc.). </p>
<p>As for day student population, I don’t think that should be a decisive factor. Many, if not all, day students are integrated in the campus life in some ways. The teamwork in classes and extracurricular activities mandates them to be connected with the school community. Besides, think of it this way, even 75% of Choate student body is bigger than the whole student body of SPS. </p>
<p>I think when you have choices like these, you need to figure out what you like and want in you mind more than relying on revisits. Revisits likely will just reinforce what you already know about them and they will blow you away in their own ways, leaving you back to ground zero. In any case, congrats for having such great options!</p>
<p>Hi, I’m brand new to this forum but thought I would reply. I’m an SPS graduate and my daughter is headed there in the fall for 3rd form. I agree with others who say that your son will have great opportunities in the arts at either Choate or SPS, and the differences in school size, location, and feel are going to be more important factors in your decision. A million years ago when I was choosing between these same two schools St. Paul’s was by far my first choice simply based on feel.</p>
<p>My daughter didn’t consider Choate but I do remember that in the past the dorms were somewhat segregated by class, whereas St. Paul’s has 4-class dorms. I thought the age-integrated dorms were terrific and over the course of my time at SPS I had friends in every class, not just my own. My daughter also likes that aspect of St. Paul’s. As a parent, I had a lot of questions about that aspect of St. Paul’s because it seemed like every other school we looked at separated the freshman class into their own dorms. I talked to several teachers (some of whom had been my teachers as well those million years ago!) and they universally felt like the 3rd formers and new 4th formers benefitted from the closer guidance they could provide when they were overseeing a mix of new and old students, as well as the relationships that new students could build with students who had a few years of boarding school under their belts. So, if Choate still has some separation in the dorms, that’s another factor to consider in your choice.</p>
<p>I second (third) the suggestion about attending revisits if you can. Best of luck and congratulations!</p>
<p>Thanks to all who have posted thus far - such terrifically thorough answers! I realize that the characteristics of these two fine schools is hard to compare as they are so apparently different - in terms of student ‘type’, socially, and academically (at least in terms of the posts until now).</p>
<p>In terms of math and science, which school is more rigorous?</p>
<p>Would truly appreciate more replies that compare and contrast these two schools if possible. As mentioned, the posts are tremendously helpful.</p>
<p>Both schools are excellent and prestigious. Based purely on numbers, SPS is the slightly more academically rigorous school. But if that is all you are basing your decision on, then you wouldn’t be asking for CC opinions. </p>
<p>School spirit is important. One quirky thing about SPS is that it is the only top tier BS w/o an athletic rival school, which makes for an awkward weekend when ALL the other top BS are playing their rival school.</p>
<p>Choate parent here. To be honest, I always hate these type of comparison questions, and hesitate to weigh in. I’ve never been so SPS, so only have experience with Choate, and in particular, its math and science program that dadofviolinist asked about, as its what drove us to apply and later attend Choate. We have not been disappointed – there are plenty of opportunities for advanced studies in both areas. For instance, beyond AP BC Calc, students can go on to take Multivariable Calculus, Real Analysis, Game Theory, and directed studies in mathematics. </p>
<p>There are many, many high performing math and science students at Choate – which can also be a negative (in that not every one can be the top), but fellow students are studying with some of the best in the world and Choate makes an effort to “recruit” some of these students from abroad. In science, there is SRS (science research program), where juniors apply, and if accepted, take special research methodology course, then intern during the summer doing research. Every year, Choate students fair well in both the Siemens and Intel competitions. </p>
<p>Feel free to pm if any specific questions and congratulations on a great choices!</p>
<p>^ whoops – that was supposed to be SRP (Science Research Program) – please excuse all my typos – was in rush to post before my computer timed out on me!</p>
GMTplus7, what numbers are you referring to that can demostrate academic rigor? I know SPS has been consistently sending a higher percentage of its graduates than Choate to the most selective elite colleges. In a way, it show the prestige of the school. It is an older (and maybe bigger) brand name than Choate for sure. On the other hand, keep in mind that SPS is a smaller school, where a higher “percentage” is easier to reach than larger schools. Not saying it should be taken for granted 'cause there are plenty small schools that don’t have those numbers but I think it’s a factor to consider for an objective evaluation. Other numbers are admit rate and yield, which SPS win in both. It shows the school can have more of their “first pick” of the strongest applicants, assuming the quality of applicant pools for all top tier schools in NE is similar. What kind of peers one will work with for the next four years is definitely something that should be taken seriously. It defines the kind of experience one will have and how much one will grow more than you’d think, IMHO. However, is the difference between Choate and SPS in this respect big enough to sway the decision either way? I’m not sure.</p>
<p>As I said previously, I’m not familiar with Choate so can’t speak to the particulars there. In terms of math and science, SPS has the new Lindsay Center which is generating tons of excitement around these disciplines and is just all-around pretty cool. Pedagogically, I like that the intent is to pursue an integrated math-science curriculum along the lines of SPS’ integrated Humanities curriculum (which pulls together English, History, and Ethics/Religion).</p>
<p>Since we’re about to embark on generation 2 of SPS in my family I’m obviously a huge supporter of St. Paul’s, and I do believe that SPS has a bit more cachet/prestige/ perceived rigor/what have you than Choate. All that being said, I think either school provides a fantastic education and your choice lies in the feel and culture of each school rather than in which individual program is “better” at each school. Your son will have incredible opportunities in his chosen areas of study at either place so your choice (or, more accurately, his) is where he wants to make his life for the next 3 or 4 years.</p>
<p>Now in the “final gauntlet” of BS (S is final trimester of senior year), I can now only chuckle to myself when I see rigor comparisons at ANY of the BSs mentioned on CC (and I was also one of those initially concerned – wondering if my gifted S could be sufficiently challenged :))! The answer is a resounding – yes, yes, yes. There are only so many hours in the day for these students, and from my observations, all seem to be working to full capacity. I can’t imagine it any less or more so at any of these schools if students are taking advantage of the advanced courses offered. Trust me – by senior year and college application time, you will be wishing there was less rigor; I kid you not. </p>
<p>Choices like these really do have to come down to the feel of the school – and as mentioned above, a larger environment with specialized programs (as well as large international student body – which we gravitated to), or smaller integrated disciplinary environment (as described by friendlymom). By all accounts, I have heard wonderful things about SPSs as well, so hope you can go to revisits to experience unique aspects of what both schools have to offer.</p>
<p>DAndrew,
Based purely on numbers, SPS comes out SLIGHTLY ahead of Choate in terms of top tier college matric, SAT, SSAT, admission rate. But I would not choose a school for my kid based only on numbers. BS is going to be a child’s home away from home for 4years.</p>
<p>Fixating on the numbers for these two schools is like arguing what is better, a Ferrari or a Lamborghini.</p>
<p>OP should go to the schools’ revisit days to determine which is a better social match for child.</p>
<p>Comparing the two schools is akin to anguishing over one’s preference for the 7 series but lamenting it does not have the rush of the 12 cylinder twin turbo S65.</p>
<p>One offers game theory while the other stops at multivariate calculus. The real question is whether either school integrates science and math so that Maxwell’s equations are learned in both point and differential form.</p>
<p>Well, my honest question was: Do numbers tell one school is “slightly more academically rigorous” than the other? I think numbers can only tell what numbers can tell. I just don’t know if “academic rigor” is one of the things they can tell. Regardless, I believe we have provided OP some perspectives as he requested - from current parents of either school as well as posters with “no horse in the game” so OP and his son are hopefully somewhat more prepared for their revisits as for what to look for during the revisits.</p>
<p>Haven’t decided yet, actually…waiting to revisit the other schools before falling in love with one or the other (that’s true for the S, not the parents…we are feeling good about one of them but don’t want to influence S or the great people posting their thoughtful comments).</p>
<p>^^why do you think you shouldn’t influence your son? If he’s talking to his peers and teachers or hang around on sites like CC, many people are influencing him. Why shouldn’t you? And you are collecting these “thoughtful comments” to just keep them to yourself?</p>