<p>i just dont agree</p>
<p>on-call is always gonna make more money than people who work at a leisurely pace. but becomming a doctor is about a constitent job. lets take IT for example, if your in IT you will be worrying everyday about when they are going to let go of you.. </p>
<p>b/w about how much does a ENT doctor make?</p>
<p>I recently read a very interesting article that talked about malpractice insurance. While malpractice insurance premiums have skyrocketed for many specialties over the last two decades, malpractice insurance premiums for anesthesiologists have fallen 37 percent. Why? Because the American College of Anesthesiologists in 1985 tackled the problem of reducing errors and increasing safety.</p>
<p>thats good and all...but nothing beats having ur arms elbow deep in a chest cavity!</p>
<p>How about having food on a table? If you want to do CT surg. realize its incredibly hard to get a job in it now. I wanted to do it, still kind of do (this was a few weeks ago, and it was a long time dream of about 3 years). The thing is, with the difficulty to get a job, and falling income its not worth an extra 8 years after med school. I found that I like Neurosurg just as much, and the training is only 5 years. Plus I am starting to find it much cooler, the precision and everything involved. For CT surg the field is going to shrink big time because of cardiologists doing many of the surgeries. In the future I honestly cant see they cracking open a chest for anything besides heart/lung transplant, or removal of a piece of diseased lung. There won't be much other reason to crack open the chest because even now they are starting to do more and more robotically. If you go on a CT surgeon website you hear about the lack of jobs, and shrinking pay. Its definitely not what it used to be, and the pay does not justify the hours nor the training.</p>
<p>how can u even say that there wont be as much need for CT surgeons in the future!!!</p>
<p>Have u ever had any practical experience in a hospital or an OR...go into the ER after any trauma...the first surgeon called is a CT. CT's have and always will work hand in hand with cardiologists. I honestly have no idea where you are getting this information from because its almost all false. </p>
<p>I will agree with you entirely that the medical field isnt what it used to be, but trust me, you will never ever find a starving doctor. You may find a doctor driving a 40 grand car instead of an 80 grand car, but trust me, they arent starving. </p>
<p>You need to speak to actual doctors instead of surfing the web. Spend time in a hospital and around doctors who truly love their job. You will rarely hear a complaint. </p>
<p>And if all you are worried about is your income as a doctor (which again will never anything that wont allow you to live in comfort) then i think you should re-evaluate your career goals. You will never succeed as a doctor if all you see is $$ signs. I will guarentee that. Medicine is about passion and responsibility. You are dealing with a human life day in and day out. If money is wut u care about, then medicine isnt the field for you. </p>
<p>Again, go get clinical experience to truly understand what im saying. And i dont mean pushing wheelchairs in and ER or clerical work.</p>
<p>I also wanted to add that medicine is somewhat like any other career. You have the opportunity to suceed, no matter what speciality you go into. Yea, it may be hard to find a job as a CT surgeon, but its also hard to be a successful lawyer, stock broker, teacher, etc. A career in medicine is what you make of it. Work hard and dont settle for mediocrity, if you do this i guarentee that you will be a successful doctor. And if you are still saying, "but that is too difficult", then go into a career where you dont have to work hard.</p>
<p>The things worth most in life are the ones that were the hardest to get.</p>
<p>Lastly, i wanted to comment on your last sentence which read</p>
<p>Its definitely not what it used to be, and the pay does not justify the hours nor the training. </p>
<p>yea ur absolutely right, for any run of the mill CT surgeon who just got out of residency and didnt try any new procedures, didnt continue research, and just stopped educating him/herself. It will be justified when you make yourself a reputable surgeon. Nothing is handed to you.</p>
<p>wow mr. doogie..
i had been reading this post for quite some time and had started to become a little apprehensive about going into medicine...but dude...what a speech...u cleared all doubts....damn homie.
dude...u seem quite experienced....i am a sophomore in high school and want to get into the best medical school (harvard, stanford) can u please advise me as to what to do to make my resume shine?
thanks</p>
<p>btw...are u in college?</p>
<p>PM me and ill tell u</p>
<p>Doogie. Look up Yale's chief of CT Surgery. I know him, and talk with him often. (no I am not going to name him here, you can find him yourself) Also notice, how many organizations he is the head of. My neighbor who is my inspiration for medicine is a retired CT Surgeon, hence that is where I got my inspiration from, he is part of the Joint Comission, not that you will know what that is, and he keeps up to date with all of this stuff. CT SURGEONS USED to be irreplaceable, this is no longer the case because cardiologists are stealing the procedures. </p>
<p>I am not at all worried about income but tell me, do you know how many hours a CT surgeon works? The ones I personally know are way out of residency and work over 100 hours per week. Their malp insur. is in the 150,000-200,000 range. They are good, and yet it is this high. Now if they bring in 400,000 a year, take away 150,000 insurance, and then about 30% taxes they are left with how much? 130,000. Take away office expenses and expenses, lets say 50,000 being on the nice side. How much income is that? 80,000. Yes you work over 100 hours per week and make 80 grand. Hurray, good life there, support your family on that. Better yet, try to have a family if you are never home. If someones chest comes open during your kids birthday party, you go fix it. Same thing at an time of day. </p>
<p>Now you are going to argue that most CT surgeons dont make that little. The top 75% in the country make 650,000 range. So think about that up the malp insur to 200,000, taxes same 30%, now more money for office (say 75,000 once again having a cheapo office and staff) since it has to big bigger to pull in that money. How much do you have? 180,000. But you are making this much when you are in you 50s and later on. By this time your family is older, and you won't want to work as long. </p>
<p>Now once again I say, go to the official website for CT surgeons in the U.S.A. and read. If you want the links I will provide them, just pm me. There is a reason why there were quite a few unmatched positions this year in CT surgery. It all has to do with job prospects. No matter how good you are, if there is no room at a hospital for another ct surg. you arent getting the job.</p>
<p>cruel: no he is not in college, read his previous posts. He is on EMS which gives him his knowledge.</p>
<p>you have totally missed my point...congratulations</p>
<p>and yea trust me, being in EMS is not my only insight into medicine</p>
<p>and btw, your obtuse crack about me not knowing your termonology was Unnecessary and just made you look ignorant and defensive</p>
<p>i have various family members who are successful surgeons, who never complain about their income</p>
<p>i have shadowed plastic surgeons, CT surgeons, vascular surgeons, pulmonologists, and cardiologists</p>
<p>i have numerous friends either in pre-med or medical school</p>
<p>and i have probably done your research plus more</p>
<p>so you may have a few doctor friends, but i believe i would have more knowledge and experience dealing with the ins and outs of medicine. If you dont agree..fine, it really wont matter to me all that much. I dont think anyone else would like to argue that i havent made a more valid argument then yours. </p>
<p>so anymore cracks u wanna make are more then welcome, i can handle myself</p>
<p>Your the one who always manages to attack me. Just like you did right above with your edit. I state my point, and then you go personal, and I follow suit. I have shadowed and had tons of experience throughout hospitals, drpsedrish knows my background, so ask him. You clearly just don't want to let me ever say my point without attacking it somehow about your family the surgeons this or that. Stop with your personal attack, and I'll stop mine. Now, as I have told you if you want the truth I will send you articles from the CT surgery network. If you don't want their opinion, suit yourself.</p>
<p>no personal attacks have been made on my part, and i dont need your articles, ive investigated the matter for myself for years...dont you worry about that. But thanks for the offer.</p>
<p>If you want to continue to argue this, be my guest, but fact of the matter is...if you work hard and make something of yourself, money wont be a problem for any specialty</p>
<p>Can you please send me your articles then? I would love to see them, to balance out what I know first hand.</p>
<p>just a quick question....what is EMS?
sorry for interrupting ur very helpful debate as it is clearing and creating doubts in my head..
you both seemed very experience......</p>
<p>Emergency Medical Services</p>
<p>Cruel if your interested heres part of an article about ct surg. And anyone else. If you want the rest pm me. </p>
<p>Why Become a Cardiothoracic Surgeon?
Author Information
Nicholas T. Kouchoukos, MD
Missouri Baptist Medical Center
St. Louis, MO USA</p>
<p>By Nicholas T. Kouchoukos, MD
These are trying times for the specialty of cardiothoracic surgery. The educational process for completion of training is criticized for being too lengthy. The work loads and work hours during the required general and cardiothoracic surgical residencies are excessive and stressful, leaving too little time for formal didactic teaching, individual study, family responsibilities, and recreation. Cardiothoracic program directors and other attending surgeons have been criticized for devoting too little time to the welfare of their trainees. Some are considered disinterested or abusive. The educational debt accumulated by many residents upon completion of their training is staggering, averaging about $50,000 and exceeding $100,000 to $150,000 in some instances. Jobs are more difficult to find, both in the private and academic settings. Starting salaries have fallen, malpractice insurance rates are becoming prohibitive, and maintaining the current levels of reimbursement for services rendered is a continuing struggle. Many practicing cardiothoracic surgeons are disillusioned, contemplating early retirement or career changes, and voicing their unhappiness to anyone who will listen.</p>
<p>Medical students about to make career specialty choices are keenly aware of all of these difficulties and are justifiably shying away from cardiothoracic surgery and other specialties with long training periods and high malpractice insurance rates. Only a minute fraction (less than half of one percent) of American medical students currently indicate an interest in pursuing training in cardiothoracic surgery. Presently in the United States, fewer graduates of American medical schools apply for residency positions in cardiothoracic surgery each year, than the number of positions available.</p>
<p>source:ctsnet.org</p>
<p>let em, i just read an article that said hospitals paying $500,000 and above to hire doctors in specific fields because there are shortages of specialists. </p>
<p>The less that go in now, the better it will be for us later when they need em ;)</p>
<p>I would like to note the same happened to general surgeons over the past 10 years...now hospitals are looking to hire general surgeons by the handful because theres a shortage. Their incentives are quite inticing</p>
<p>Depends on the area, some areas have tons of gen surg. some have none. Its all about compromise. But yes it is true, by the time we would be practicing there may be quite a few open spaces due to baby boomers retiring. At the same time cardiologists could shut down ct surgery. Damn them.</p>
<p>or there could be a need for CT surgeons in the next 10 years just like there is for general surgeons now</p>
<p>what do u guys have to say about dermatologist</p>