I agree with every point @alwaysamom wrote in post 19.
Also, while prescreens have many benefits and can save applicants time, money, and travel if they don’t pass them, they are also an additional hurdle and another piece to prepare (and another thing that differs among each college’s requirements). When my D applied to BFA programs, there were no prescreens. So, if anything, there is even more now that is not uniform in the admissions process to BFA programs and more that an applicant must go through. It has moved more in that direction than toward uniformity.
And even with college applications for regular colleges, while there is the Common Application, so many schools require supplemental applications and essays and so it is only a minor convenience to have the Common App. And a drawback to the uniformity of the Common App brought more applications per student because it was easier to submit apps to more schools.
Anyway, I don’t think the BFA programs are going to agree on common standards and don’t feel an obligation to do so.
I am the secretary of the Board of Directors for MTEA. I brought this topic up at the last meeting in January and I am sure it will continue to come up at future meetings. MTEA’s members are faculty at the majority of MT schools, so the educators having the discussions are the ones who end up doing the auditions. So we do have the ability to make this happen. The problem is that our programs are so diverse and so are the faculty. For instance, many of the BM MT programs have classical voice faculty who want to hear legit and in some cases foreign language. Personally, for my BFA program, I only want to hear you perform the styles you sing best. If legit is not your thing, I’m fine with that, but I don’t want to hear you perform a weak legit piece. It is a philosophical disagreement that may be difficult to overcome. I do understand how difficult this is on students and parents. I try to coach at least one to two local high school students a year so I stay aware of that side of the picture. We make spreadsheets and plan way ahead to get everything together. The members of MTEA are great people and they care deeply about the students. However, this is art and anytime you bring a bunch of artists together, you are going to get a wide range of artistic views and opinions. Because of that, I think it is going to be difficult to come up with a common set of requirements. But we are going to see what we can do. ~ VT
It’s good to hear that the schools are aware of the issue, @VoiceTeacher and I thank you for speaking up. I agree that it would be hard to get everyone together on one audition standard, but maybe promote a more standard audition packet with colleges requesting at auditions from among those options:
MT programs:
Four 16 bar cuts (or 45 seconds max): 1 contemporary, 1 classic MT, 1 lyrical MT or art song, 1 pop/rock (with possible option to self-accompany on guitar/piano) along with two one-minute monologues: 1 dramatic, 1 comedic
For theatre BFA consideration add:
1 Shakespeare monologue, one minute
For vocal BM considerations add:
1 32 bar art song in foreign language (I’m kind of guessing here)
Reading this, it seems really obvious. And yet, it still took my D, me, and the particulars of her college choices - many of which were updated or released in the summer - to figure out what she needed to have prepared. Among her ten colleges were variations about: specifically a “Golden Age” song, 32 bar cuts instead of 16 - though you may be cut off, post-1990 contemporary, two one-minute monologues done back-to-back in exactly 2 timed minutes, one Shakespeare monologue and please no Shakespeare. And these are just a few from her spreadsheet notes. Many of the schools had other specifics on their websites.
It’s true that the MT business will involve lots of auditions and lots of specifics, but for college auditions the stakes are higher and the rule-following audition process is often getting outsourced to audition coaches or helpful, bewildered parents. It seems some standardization would draw the focus from managing audition process and direct it to finding the right fit of school and student for the benefit of all.
Why can’t MT programs be like VP programs and designate a couple of readily available song cut books from which to choose songs, such as The Singer’s Musical Theatre Anthology – “16-Bar” Audition which is available in every voice part and includes 100+ songs in every book?
I have heard college faculty bemoan the growth of college audition coaching, but they themselves are one of the primary drivers for this phenomenon with all the different requirements for song cuts including 16 bars, 32 bars, 30 seconds, 45 seconds, 60 seconds, and the dreaded, arbitrary and capricious “overdone” and “do not use” lists. If they would relax these demands and use an approach like that used in VP, I think fewer parents would be driven to hire an audition coach.
Simple, clear purpose and principles give rise to complex and intelligent behavior. Complex rules and regulations give rise to simple and stupid behavior.
I wonder what the percentage of kids who are coached is compared to those who are not? My child was asked by a top school if she was coached. She was not. As stressful as the process is I think every student’s audition journey is as unique as each program. Plus every professional audition is just as different. I’m not a fan of standardization.
The one thing I would really like to standardize is length of monologue. If they could all just agree on one minute or two minutes, that would be awesome!
@Ducky312 - I would estimate the percentage of applicants with coaches on the order of 15-20%. This is based on an applicant pool of around 3,000 and something like 450 or so students with coaches.
The estimate for coached students is based on 150-200 for MTCA, 100-120 for Mary Anna Dennard, 50-60 for College Audition Coach and maybe another 100-150 with other coaches around the country (Dave Clemmons et. al.).
The estimate for the size of the audition pool is based on these posts:
On an individual school basis, the percentage of students with coaches auditioning is probably higher for the more popular MT programs and lower for the more regional programs.
D preferred (then and now) to have different pieces for different length requirements- that way she wouldn’t get confused. A little more time spent memorizing/polishing- but she likes it. Btw- the time thing is NOT going away after BFA auditions- D spent a good amount of time on it for summer stock things this year- the 2 different “unifieds” she attended had different (VERY strict) requirements.
Wow @EmsDad. Amazing. You bring up some good points… and stats!
Question: what is the difference between Mary Anna Dennard and College Audition Coach? Not a big deal but just want to understand your numbers .
And note:The original article posted was about standardizing auditions requirements . It had not to do with coaching? Or did I miss something??
@Notmath1 - sorry, I was referring to “My College Audition Coach” (Chelsea Diehl) when I said “College Audition Coach” (which is the name of Mary Anna’s web page). I think the growth in coaching is due in no small part to the complexity of the requirements involved in the process (post # 25), and @Ducky312 asked in post #26 what is the percentage of kids that are coached, hence, my comments in post #28.
@toowonderful - I think that the many different song length (and monologue length) requirements is much more of a problem for college auditions than professional auditions - for college, many/most students have to deal with on the order of 12-14 (or more) differing requirements (which can actually vary within a single school because of different requirements for prescreens vs. actual auditions). At college Unifieds, you may have to do several auditions within a few hours, potentially having to remember to shift the version of your song(s) (and maybe monologues) for each audition. My d messed up one audition at Unifieds because she confused the 32 bar version with the 16 bar version of one of her songs.
For summer stock auditions, at least the ones that my d has done, you just do your material one time for all theatres en mass, and then you have up to a month or more between auditions to shift gears and get ready for the next one (of course, you may get asked to do something else at callbacks, but that is very easy to prepare for). Also, by the time you are competing for summer stock, you probably have done at least one entire semester of repertoire preparation along with audition training at college targeted at just those sorts of auditions. I know my d has a lot more material now ready to go for many types of auditions than she did in high school, not to mention lots of great training and advice on how to handle professional auditions, including many mock audition sessions (even her semester juries are run as mock auditions). She did not seem to bat an eye while doing OTA’s, MWTA’s, on-campus ss auditions, etc. this year.
I personally don’t think comparing professional auditions with college auditions is valid due to the difference in age, training, and experience between the two environments. For most students, its apples and oranges. There is a huge difference in my d between now and high school.
@EmsDad - I am not comparing college and summer stock auditions other than to say that the need to meet specific requirements, which vary from one set of auditions to the next, isn’t going away.
My daughter is finishing up junior year and we are in the beginning of learning about the audition process for college MT programs. Between my daughter’s vocal coach (former Julliard student and Peabody Professor) and friends who used Dennard and did not like her at all, I am not convinced that a coach is necessary. These coaching organizations seem like puppy mills to me, churning out cookie-cutter students. I don’t see how mentoring someone via Skype could possibly be effective. I would think that anyone who has been doing MT for as many years as most kids have, would have resources in their own community to reach out to (ie, vocal teachers, school theatre teachers, etc.) I’m open-minded, but I’m having trouble seeing this whole coaching phenomenon as anything other than a money-making scheme.
We didn’t use a coach and wish we had. The process has changed so much, even in the past 5 years, that most people (even former students and professors) don’t realize how different the process is now if they haven’t been involved in it personally. We didn’t need coaching for material, but having a coach who knows most of the programs thoroughly would have been immensely helpful in getting us to make a good list for my D’s particular strengths and would have been able to guide us on which schools to include and which ones not to bother with. That would have saved us a TON of money, (talking thousands of dollars) and worth the minimal expenditure of hiring a coach. JMHO.
@collegemom2000 I hope your D has a great audition season using your decided on family approach. There is no right or wrong way. I did not have a coach, my S is delighted with his results, and I wish I did have a coach. This is just one of many stories you will find here. I hope you will share your story through her season so others can benefit from your approach.
I wish we had used a coach if for no other reason to help us formulate a good list of schools to audition for. We were sorely uninformed. Also, monologues were hard to choose and my daughter could have used some guidance in that area. These coaches are clearly doing something right since so many of these kids get into at least one program.
@collegemom2000 I can only speak from our experience to say that the help of my daughter’s coaches through MTCA was invaluable. My D has been performing locally since the age of 10. She has a local vocal, dance and acting instructors that are wonderful and have trained her very well. However, they know little to nothing about the MT college audition process and how very competitive it is, especially for a girl. They all think my daughter is wildly talented, and should get into any college to which she applies. That is because they are basing their assessment on our area, which is not necessarily small by the way, but still just a microcosm of the talent that is out there nationally. D has been very, very successful performing locally, but she is a big fish in a somewhat small sized pond. There are hundreds to thousands of girls just like my daughter in communities all across this great big country vying for limited spots at a finite number of schools. So understanding the process and how to package yourself to stand out in the crowd is very important and that is where a coach is key - because these people understand the process and help to guide you and your child through. Creating a school list made up of schools that are a good match for your student, choosing monologues and songs and practicing for the real life setting of stepping into that audition room with people who know the landscape is so helpful. Having them on hand at Unifieds for moral support and consult is so reassuring. It’s all about proper preparation, knowing what to expect and support through the process. For us it was very worthwhile and my daughter had great results - acceptance to 4 very competitive MT programs, 4 acting programs and 4 wait lists. That accounted for a nearly 50% success rate from the 26 schools to which she applied. I credit that very much to how prepared she was thanks to time spent with coaches. And when I say prepared, I most certainly do not mean packaged. They were very much into finding out what made my daughter unique and special and pulling out those qualities that made her shine as an individual - not a cookie cutter in any way. All her song and monologue material and even clothes were selected with her personality and type in mind. This is all something her local teachers would have been at a loss to provide. The Skype lessons were great. Many instructors are using Skype as a tool now and she benefited just as much as having them in the room in my opinion. Once her acceptances started rolling in they also served as a sounding board to help her narrow down her choices to the best fit for her. Trust me when I say they really get to know your student over the time they spend and have a good sense of which programs are a match. My daughter is happily going to be headed off to pursue her dream as a BFA Musical Theatre student at The Hartt School in the fall and I am very glad we had the support of her MTCA coaches and family. I’m certainly not saying it can’t be done without a coach, people here do it all of the time. But without a coach, you really need to at least have someone who really gets how very competitive and all consuming this process is because it can eat you up and spit you out and crush your child in the process. For us, it was the right decision.
Thanks! I have a decent list already (I think) for her and I have a fairly good grasp on the process. We are targeting some of the smaller schools here on the east coast as well as a few of the bigger reach schools. My daughter is at a disadvantage (Caucasian female), but is strong academically and has a lot of training in theatre and voice (high level choir since 4th grade, private vocal coach for four years, All State, etc., leads in the school musicals, summer theatre camps, summer conservatory training, etc.) We can use her vocal teacher as a coach for the music, she is wonderful. My daughter is not a dancer, however, so that will be the hardest part and I’m not sure how to even approach that via a Skype session. I do think she needs help finding monologues but I am not sure I’d trust a stranger with that task; so many others who have worked with her over the years know her strengths already. Nontheless, I’d be willing to pay for that service, but it seems most of the coaching sites make you commit to more than just that.
FWIW, our friends son is one of the most talented young men I have ever seen, and he did not get into a single MT program last year…he used Dennard as his coach. His mom said she just did not guide him well and she didn’t seem very good at recognizing his strengths. This year he used someone more local and got into 7 schools.
Any advice from either side (coach, no coach) is greatly appreciated as we embark on this new adventure!
His mom said she just did not guide him well and she didn’t seem very good at recognizing his strengths. This year he used someone more local and got into 7 schools.