stanford ms&e dept.

Graduate School
1

<p>hi!</p>

<p>I got an admit from the ms&e dept of stanford for the masters degree and have a few queries... </p>

<p>1) what is the reputation of the dept? n how gud are placements?
2) is it worth the investment especially in times like these?</p>

<p>3) i have got admits to the IE masters program at NCSU, ASU, and Suny Buffalo. I am waiting for replies from Cornell ORIE dept, Gatech IE, Umich IE, PSU IE, UFL IE, Virginiatech IE respectively. i kno its too early to even think abt them but i wanna know how does the stanford ms&e Masters rate against all the other colleges (ones i have admits n ones i am waiting for). </p>

<p>Looking forward to your replies..</p>

2

<p>It's not even close between the ones you've been admitted to - Stanford is the clear best choice. Of the others remaining, Michigan is about equal to Stanford, but Georgia Tech is the undisputed #1, and it's not even close in rankings. I wouldn't look at any of the others unless there was a major compelling reason. </p>

<p>So my advice would be to go to Georgia Tech if you get in there, if not, go to Stanford or Michigan (personally, I like Stanford for location, but that's a personal choice).</p>

<p>As for investment - you sound like an international student. If that is the case, and you want to work in the US, the investment will be worth it.</p>

3

<p>Edit: also, you might want to find out the length of each program before you decide . I know that GT's program can be easily completed in a year if you schedule your classes properly (only a few classes are offered in the summer, so you don't schedule those until the summer - but you have to find someone who knows the program to tell you which classes those are).</p>

4

<p>Thanks a lot G. P. Burdell. Your opinion was really insightful, however I did read in some other forums that the ms&e dept gives lots of admits. So does this in any way reflect badly on the dept? Also what do you think of the cornell ORIE program? I believe it can be finished in a year. Your deduction was correct, I am an international student hence the cost does play a role in my decision. But as you said none of the other univs come close to Stanford apart from Georgia Tech and Michigan. Lastly what is your opinion of the PSU IE program?</p>

5

<p>My best friend is in the Stanford MS&E department right now. She is a bit crazy intense, so she took only 1 year to finish while also doing some half-time work for a professor (graduating in June). She looked into other programs too but found that this was the best in the nation (for her). Unfortunately, she and her classmates ARE having some trouble finding jobs, just because it's a bad year. She is looking in specific locations though, being married. I heard that most students get great placement after graduating.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
Thanks a lot G. P. Burdell. Your opinion was really insightful, however I did read in some other forums that the ms&e dept gives lots of admits. So does this in any way reflect badly on the dept? Also what do you think of the cornell ORIE program? I believe it can be finished in a year. Your deduction was correct, I am an international student hence the cost does play a role in my decision. But as you said none of the other univs come close to Stanford apart from Georgia Tech and Michigan. Lastly what is your opinion of the PSU IE program?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>PSU and Cornell are about equal. I know a few more people in OR from Cornell, but there are more from non-OR fields that I know at PSU. Overall, decent choices, but short of the big 4 - GT, Michigan, Berkeley, and Stanford.</p>

<p>I wouldn't worry about the admissions rate at Stanford. On CC, people judge the quality of the school by the difficulty getting in (incorrectly, people here seem to just be concerned about admissions). In real life, people are more concerned about the quality of students coming out of the college. A school could graduate 1000 IE's a year and no one would care, as long as the vast majority of those 1000 students were excellent.</p>

<p>If I was in your situation, I would also check the percentage of international students graduating from each college. If international students are the minority, you'll likely have difficulty finding a firm to sponsor you (your competition will have an edge). But, if a school has 50% or more international, and the placement rate for that school is high, you'll have a much better chance at that school. </p>

<p>So you've settled on OR as your area of focus?</p>

7

<p>You spell like a moron.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
You spell like a moron.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>He's international and English is likely a second (or third or fourth) language. Calm down. I'm not the best speller in my second or third languages, either. And both of those are phonetic languages (and much easier than English).</p>

9

<p>better to spell like a moron than to act like one.</p>

10

<p>Thank you G. P. Burdell and ymmit for your inputs. </p>

<p>I have not yet decided on my area of focus but surely I am inclined to take that(OR) up. I liked OR during my undergrad study and also the fact that it will be a "hard" skill that I will be learning incline me to take that up as my area of focus. It is the mix of the hard and soft courses in ms&e that really attract me. Ms&e has the advantage of the program being smack in the middle of engineering and business. I dont know much about the balance of the programs at Gtech and Michigan. Any light shed on this will be greatly appreciated. Also I have a friend in Michigan who is doing OR as his major. His opinion was that its really difficult and that one can hardly find time to do anything else. After this I was pretty scared of choosing OR as my major. I do realise that OR will have a lot of high level Math but I guess a few soft courses should reduce the tension? Also the fact that OR is a hard skill makes me believe that finding jobs and maintaing them will be difficult for sure but still less worrysome than just doing soft skill courses. Does this "soft" and " hard" skill thing make that much of difference?</p>

11

<p>I don't think "hard" and "soft" is really the appropriate terminology. It's more like "learning a technique" and "learning a field", that I think you mean.</p>

<p>Both types of focus have the about the same job prospects, as long as you're not focuses in a field like warehousing. OR is a little more limited to consulting (software) companies and algorithm groups within firms, while basic IE has greater mobility within a company (you can move through more levels of management). So, which path you choose (IE or OR) will influence the type of work you do, but not really your probability of getting hired.</p>

<p>In terms of courses, GT requires 10 courses, but 5 are electives. From the electives, you can chose very theoretical courses (such as PhD level Stochastic Optimization, Non-linear Optimization, etc.) or you can chose more "soft" courses (Supply Chain Management, Financial Engineering, Economic Decision Analysis, etc.). It's up to you and your future goals (industry vs. a PhD). </p>

<p>If you want a degree with more business connections, you can try a QCF program. Other than that, being in a business school doesn't really impact an IE program. Firms that want a business major hire MBA's. Firms that want an IE hire from an IE program.</p>

12

<p>May I call you GP Mr. G. P. Burdell if you dont mind? As usual your response was extremely clear. I am extremely impressed by your knowledge. How do you know so much about all the programs and subjects??? </p>

<p>I still have a few questions which i feel will keep coming for a few days till I finalize on my final destination. </p>

<p>What is a QCF program? Correct me if I am wrong but I guess OR would be more P.hd oriented, right? Also what is your opinion of the current placement/job situation and do you think by 2011 it will be better? I am more industry inclined so do you think I should take up more soft skills so as to make my cv more attractive? Also what kind of jobs do IEs get and how good is the pay? Will it ever compare to the salaries offered in the IT sector?</p>

<p>Any ms&e senior reading this could also add some valuable inputs.</p>

13

<p>QCF is Quantitative and Computational Finance. It's model design and analysis specifically for the financial industry, and is a collaboration (at GT, at least) between Industrial Engineering, Math, and Business. Here's the link: H</a>. Milton Stewart School of Industrial and Systems Engineering :: Masters Programs</p>

<p>OR at the Master's level is not normally that research oriented. The coursework usually doesn't go beyond basic deterministic optimization, primarily focusing on linear with some non-linear application. You very rarely get into graphical methods or proof-based work, and quite frankly, if you're going to industry you won't want to get into that stuff.</p>

<p>Setting up a resume, a good thing to do is have an internship. Most people try to steamroll through the MSOR programs - Fall, Spring, Summer, graduation. This causes two problems: 1) they don't have much experience in industry and 2) companies interview in Fall, so a new MS student will be interviewing a month after arriving at college. This is especially difficult on international students, since US companies frequently won't recognize your undergraduate GPA and you haven't had time to acclimate to American culture. </p>

<p>The best bet is to go Fall, Spring, work on an internship, then Fall and graduation. This fixes both problems. First, you'll have an internship to demonstrate some level of experience. Second, you'll interview during your second Fall, when you have a US GPA and a year of acclimation to US culture. School won't cost much more (3 semesters, either way), and you'll have 3 months of salary from your internship. Plus, you'll have gone through interviews twice (once for internship, once for full-time), you'll likely have a job offer from your internship company, and you'll be a December graduate, which interviewers in September favor. </p>

<p>As for job prospects - I won't lie. They are drying up everywhere, and when that happens, the international students are the first ones to have problems (sponsorship is expensive). After talking to some of the hiring managers around, it sounds like 2011 will be an excellent year to graduate. Most companies are freezing hiring in 2009 and 2010, and when the economy rebounds (as it is expected to do in late 2010 / early 2011), there will be a shortage of white collar employees at most companies.</p>

<p>Salaries start in the $60,000 - $70,000 range for MS OR students. That's comparable to CS majors (though CS majors are generally quoted higher because they work in more expensive locations, on average). </p>

<p>I hope that helps.</p>

14

<p>Thanks a lot G. P. Burdell. You have helped me out with almost evrything that I needed to know. If i do come across somethin that I cant understand I shall ask you right here.. </p>

<p>Thanks a lot for your time. :)</p>