Stanford (SLE) vs University of Chicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z Stanford University
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<p>It's 2:24 AM, and I think I'm losing my mind. As of right now, I have a little less than four days to decide on a college. My rhetorical skills are all but exhausted at this point, so I'm going to be fairly concise. (haha)</p>

<p>I'm Andrew (hi!), a 17y/o white male from a competitive Silicon Valley high school. I'm not really sure what I want to do in life, but I'm thinking about majoring in economics, philosophy, or some other "fuzzy" discipline (okay, econ has a lot of math, but I’m still counting it as “fuzzy”). I'll probably go to grad school. What I want more than anything in a school is a thriving intellectual community. You know, philosophical discussions with my roommate, political discourse at the dinner table, and a priority list that goes something like (academic)conversation>food>sleep>life. Okay, that last bit is somewhat of a lie, I love to run, fence, and just generally dick around with friends, but I don't think anything really compares to losing myself inside a philosophical debate.</p>

<p>So, future salary, prestige, strength of program, weather, cost, nice professors, and all of that aside, where will I find more of what I'm looking for?</p>

<p>My initial reaction was, obviously, Chicago. It has an incredible reputation as one of the most intellectual campuses all of higher education. However, when I went to visit, I didn't see too much of the "life of the mind" that everyone talks about. Perhaps it was because I stayed in one of the dorms that is more "social" than the others (Shoreline), but nobody seemed to be talking about anything intellectual, and most of my fellow prospective freshmen were choosing between state schools and Chicago. At Stanford, I found people a bit more engaged, and “ProFros” were choosing between Stanford and Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Now, I know this is rude, insensitive, judgmental, naive, and I'll probably get a few replies that hammer me for this (in advance: I'm really sorry), but, all else equal, shouldn't more qualified students make for better academic discussion?</p>

<p>I know, Chicago kids are supposed much more intellectual and "nerdy" (for me, this is actually a good thing), but consider one last thing about Stanford: the Structured Liberal Education program. SLE (as you may or may not know) is a residential/academic offering which involves a series of lectures/discussions actually held in the dorm and a LARGE reading requirement that is uniform for students throughout the program. This unification and foundation in the liberal arts would provide (I hope) what I'm looking for (this article seems to agree [also, it's a great read]: <a href="http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2001/janfeb/departments/studentvoice.html)%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.stanfordalumni.org/news/magazine/2001/janfeb/departments/studentvoice.html)&lt;/a>. I guess, in comparison, U Chicago has a very strong core, but I don’t think that equates to actually sharing the same class. On the other hand, I'm worried that the other 3 years of my Stanford undergrad would be a bit dull: Stanford kids get a stereotype of being too pre-professional and not very interested in liberal arts/humanities.</p>

<p>Sorry for breaking my promise about a short post, but I'd really appreciate if you'd offer any sort of wisdom. Where do you think I would be happiest?</p>

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<p>It's a rhetorical question :P
Stanford :)</p>

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<p>Haha, you're quite the persuasive one. Semantics aside, want to give any reason for your opinion? (at least pretend to be objective :-p)</p>

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<p>All other things being equal, Stanford has the better weather. </p>

<p>For many months of the year, Chicago co-eds will be wearing bulky sweaters and heavy coats. For many months of the same year, Stanford students...won't be. </p>

<p>Just sayin'.</p>

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<p>My daughter is a sophomore at Stanford, and although she has had an excellent educational experience thus far, the things that she shares with us are the amazing conversations she has with her dorm mates and house mates until the wee hours of the morning. I definitely believe that when she looks back on her Stanford experience years from now it's going to be the those conversations and people she remembers much more than the classes.</p>

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<p>From what I've seen philosophical discussions and political discourse at the dinner table are rather rare here. If that is the most important thing for you, it is possible UChicago would be a better fit. It's also possible that UChicago isn't all that much more intellectual. If you come here looking for intellectual conversation you are likely to be disappointed, at least at first, but possibly for your entire four years here.</p>

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<p>SLE has the reputation of being chicago-esque. I think stanford is a better choice for you, since you dont know exactly what you want to do--stanford is a good place to study anything that you want, and chicago is far less flexible if you change your mind about your goals/field of interest. And although you said that you didn't want to consider stuff like weather, that really does have a huge impact. Moving from silicon valley to chicago is going to be very, very hard. </p>

<p>IMHO, SLE can give you what you can get at chicago, and stanford wins everything else (+ has the HYPS students). Stanford.</p>

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<p>Stanford students, from my impression, are less preprofessional than most schools on the East Coast. You'd be surprised, but the humanities program have a huge amount of vitality that is not always department. The English Department is everywhere on campus.</p>

<p>I'm a SLE kid and it is a wonderful experience. I guarantee you'll be happier overall here than at Chicago.</p>

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<p>I'm also a profro, but having talked with some SLE kids and attended SLE open house during admit weekend, here's my two cents...</p>

<p>While I've heard that Stanford students aren't usually seen having spontaneous political or philosophical discussions (I would attribute this to humility), I think the SLE program is different. Not that SLE students want to show off, but the structure of the program just facilitates in-depth thought and discussion. For instance, SLE classes go from mid-afternoon until later at night, and students eat dinner with faculty and frequently continue their conversations through meals. Also, the effect of rooming all of the SLE kids together creates a cohesive and definitely intensely intellectual environment.</p>

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<p>TrinSF-- Your point is well taken, but it's kind of balanced out by the fact that Chicago's a totally new enviornment for me whereas I already know everything about Palo Alto. Again, I don't really want location/weather to be the deciding factor for me.</p>

<p>marlgirl-- Don't you think that SLE might be an exception to this rule?</p>

<p>others-- This is music to my ears. I know, I know, it's a Stanford forum and there ought to be plenty of bias here, but it's hitting all of the right notes.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, the distilled question in my mind right now is sort of encapsulated by this pro/con list:</p>

<p>Stanford:
Pro-- amazing academic climate in SLE for 1 year
Con-- perhaps not as much intellectualism for the remaing three</p>

<p>Chic:
Pro-- 4 years of solid intellectualism
Con-- probably no one year will be as intense (discussion-wise) as SLE (simply because SLE forces everyone to read the same books and, as a result, be able to discuss the same topics easily)</p>

<p>Thoughts on which is better?</p>

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<p>If SLE solves the problem, then the fact that it's only 1 year really isn't an issue. With the way the housing draw works it's pretty easy to ensure you'll be living with a bunch of your good friends the next year. You can draw with up 7 of your friends (total of 8 people). You can coordinate with friends to try to boost the chances of living near each other once you get your draw numbers and all. </p>

<p>If the most important thing to you by far is intellectualism I think it is possible that you will be disappointed here. I was to an extent. It's also possible that you'll fall in love with Stanford for many other reasons and not mind the fact that it's not intensely intellectual. It's also possible that you would go to UChicago and regret not going to Stanford. I can't decided for you. But if the only factor that really matters to you is the degree of intellectualism on campus, it is possible that UChicago would be better able to offer that than Stanford. If it is one of many factors, you may very well be happier here. It all depends.</p>

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<p>I'd take Stanford in that case. More research opportunities.</p>

<p>That's in fact what I'm doing. I actually feel bad about doing it because I was really hoping to get into Chicago because of their intellectual environment and STELLAR mathematics department.. but then I got into Caltech and Stanford and Columbia and then it seems like Chicago offers all of this but then Stanford offers (from what I saw) so much in the way of community programs and, yes, research opportunities... I can't say Chicago doesn't but thats not exactly what they're known for. Overall, Stanford is 'better' (again, I'm speaking in the general sense).. but maybe you want to go to Chicago because of a particular professor or because you're deeply interested in philosophy. I didn't get a whole lot of 'intellectual vibe' from Stanford at the PFW.</p>

<p>Chicago gives you the better humanities grounding anyway so if you're not one of those who finds that to be a 'nuisance' then go ahead. I got the feeling that this was the attitude of most students towards Stanfords IHUM requirement.</p>

<p>By the way, SLE participants are viewed as 'nerdy', as I found out. ;)</p>

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<p>wooo SLE</p>

<p>chase (SLE alum)</p>

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<p>University of Chicago is surrounded by decayed inner city neighborhoods. High crime area. That's why their admit rate is high and yield low for such an excellent university. </p>

<p>Chicago VERY cold and ugly in the winter.</p>