Stanford vs UPENN (Wharton) vs Swarthmore (Free tuition) vs USC

This was a couple years ago, but yes, you’re correct, more recently I think Haverford had some issues.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/11/us/swarthmore-college-bans-fraternities

My son chose to pass on Stanford to stay at the school in your avatar for his MS. The MS at Poly was thesis based, 1 additional year since he was ahead, and funded. Stanford would have been 2 years, non-thesis based and $100k.

He not only has no debt, but an additional year of income under his belt. It doesn’t seem to have hurt him. Only two years out he makes well over the national average for MEs. Had he chosen Stanford, he’d have been over $200k behind where he is now and he wouldn’t have the crazy cool job he has. Even though one of the founders is a Stanford grad, they don’t recruit there.

Long story short…the answer isn’t always Stanford.

OP: As for the cost, just think what the savings would amount to by the time you turned 60 if they gifted it to you and you invested it in the total market and forgot about it. The answer is probably more than you’d earn in your entire career. So, even if they can afford it, there’s opportunity cost to that money.

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As I mentioned in Post #16, my first post was a bit tongue-in-cheek. I thought the :grimacing: emoji was a dead giveaway, but oh well.

I’m emoji illiterate :rofl:

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Swarthmore doesn’t really have the vibe you’re looking for.
If you’re worried about professional prospects Wharton+Theater would be a great compromise. If you’re worried about math, you can start in Math 103, which is designed for kids who got a 4 on their Calc AB exam (or attended a school that didn’t offer ap/ib calc) then take the minimal-math sequence. No one will care once you graduate.
Since you’re from the East Coast, Stanford and USC would offer you the opportunity to discover another region of the country, enjoy year round decent weather (when there aren’t any wildfires), acccess the tech scene (especially Stanford), the most performing arts connections (especially wrt Hollywood). There, Stanford really seems to have everything you want.

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I do not agree with this, nor do I agree that cliques are necessarily a part of LAC life. Small doesn’t equal cliquey. If anything, I think students at LACs have a lot of varied and shared interests with others because of the close interaction. Swat is intensely academic though. Given the full tuition, I would find it impossible to turn down Swat. It’s a fantastic school. You will get to know your professors well and have plenty of in-class discussion from the start. Students are interesting and interested.

I think Penn Wharton is going to stifle your creativity. It is known for being preprofessional and competitive. USC has a fun vibe and I think you could find a good mix of all you are interested in there.

I don’t know much about Stanford, but I suspect it will appear relaxed on the surface, even if it probably isn’t. There will be a big mix of students. I think you will have an easy time finding your people and even if theater isn’t a top thing at Stanford, I am sure it is as good as plenty of other colleges. But it will be at least as stressful as Swarthmore.

Big or small? I’d decide that, then go for Swat or Stanford.

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Thank you this was a very insightful comment! I’m from the South (Florida) so it is quite different from the Northeast. Either way, it would be a change in environment which is nice!

And yeah, math is a big concern for me. I should be fine and make do (as you mentioned), but especially since everyone at Wharton is an economics major (with a concentration in another field), I’m afraid I may fall behind. I do like the prospects of doing Wharton + Theater though!

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By “closed-minded”, I am referring to the lack of tolerance for opposing viewpoints such as conservative points of view. Close to far left Haverford College & Bryn Mawr, both geographically & in ideology, other websites such as Unigo & Niche should offer student comments regarding campus culture at Swarthmore College.

Broadly speaking, LACs tend to have a strong dominate personality. This aspect can make LACs an intimate & cozy environment for the like-minded or an uncomfortable environment for those harboring different points of view.

Humanities majors at Stanford University are welcome & reportedly deal with much less stress than do quant/tech students.

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Thank you for your thoughts and I love that Swat is so strong in academics (which is why it is hard to turn down for me as well)! Beyond academics though, I think I want to be able to meet lots of new people/go to school games/be social on weekends in college. I am afraid that going to Swat might be a repetition of my middle/high school experience (I have been with pretty much the same 190 students since 6th grade).

Do you know anything about what the social scene is like at Swat?

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I’d recommend Stanford but it sounds like you prefer USC. All great options. Congrats!

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Would Penn Wharton + Theater at CAS be a decent compromise? I do know that going to Wharton in general is very competitive, so I am not sure if I’d even have time to do Theater.

I like USC a lot as well. My issue is getting my parents on board for me to go there over Stanford or Penn (which are both schools I like as well).

Thank you!

Agree with @itsgettingreal21’s recommendation.

After all, if you are going to be paying full freight, you might as well go to Stanford to see what all the fuss is about. :smile:

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Stanford is very good for students who are undecided about majors and have many interests.

I don’t know much about Theater - if you have set your mind to pursue a career in that field, it could be a different story.

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OP: Have you taken a close look at the classes/requirements for each major at each school? I seem to recall that Stanford’s poly sci was very math-heavy because of a data analysis focus. That’s one reason my D22 isn’t interested in that program. The other is the vibe — she has visited that campus quite a bit and always comes away with “meh” about it and Palo Alto.

Penn sounds like a good fit based on your expressed preferences of a college with a theater program that will also provide a practical education. You can study at Wharton and still pursue your theater interests.

My CAS kid jokes Wharton kids have the least amount of work. I’m sure Whartonites work hard, but I believe classes are only scheduled four days per week which leaves them ample time for socializing/networking.

At Penn, students can take classes in any school so you would be able to take theater classes in the college even if your home school is Wharton. You could also join any of the 46 student-run groups through Platt House.

https://platthouse.vpul.upenn.edu/

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At Penn, in order to decrease the “preprofessional” vibe, you could ask to join some of the “arsty” houses, like Gregory House (free film screenings and language tables every night) or Riepe House (for students interested in the Arts, with field trips to theaters, galleries, etc.) If you’re in Benjamin Franklin scholars, you could join that residential community and be sure you’ve got students interested in other things than preprofessionalism.
Math:
If you didn’t get a 5 in Calc AB, you can take Math 103 in the Fall and Math 110 in the Spring, otherwise you can jump straight into Math 110 (if you love math, you can take 104, then 114… but that wouldn’t be you, right?)
After that, you have two calculus-based statistics courses sophomore year, and the rest is entirely up to you. Is that something you can handle?
(I have trouble thinking you struggled that badly in Calc AB if you got into Penn, Swarthmore, Stanford, and USC but they may have figured it didn’t matter for International Studies/Theater?)

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Many students are concerned that LACs might be a repeat of high school. There is a crucial difference: students have made a deliberate choice to be at an LAC. At high school, you are stuck with whoever is there. And I’m sorry, but I disagree with Publisher. Most elite colleges are predominantly liberal anyway. FWIW, Swat has a College Republicans group.

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I haven’t done that just yet! I plan to look over the courses soon.

That should be key research in making your decision.

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