Stanford... worth it?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Well, my parents have basically said that they would pay as much as they easily can. I was going a bit hypothetical when I said my parents would pay the full Stanford tuition (I wouldn’t let them).
My stats: SAT 2370 (770 math, 800 verbal, 800 CR), SAT subject math II 790, physics 800, USH 790. Weighted academic GPA 4.5. Spent 9th grade in India, 10th and 11th in America. </p>

<p>Even if my parents don’t give me the $100,000 fully if I go to Berkeley, it’s still their 100,000. If I pay for Stanford and Berkeley with loans, I’ll be stuck with $100,000 more loan after stanford. In the end, my money or theirs, loan or not, it’s a $100,000 difference. That’d take me years to repay if it was loan, and it would give me a huge boost if I had it in cash. I hope that makes sense. </p>

<p>@zenkoan I understand that my college decision isn’t a pure investment like stocks. But basically my question was-- If my plan is not to work for my life and rather start a business (which may or probably will not be successful), is Stanford worth the extra money? I mean, if I were getting a job, I’d get the “Stanford graduate” on my resume, but apart from that… is it worth it? I understand that the “Stanford experience” cannot be received anywhere else, but then it becomes more of a luxury, like a brand new HDTV. </p>

<p>In all, purely economically, will Stanford provide the proper Return on Investment of my $100,000? Will the “Stanford experience” be life-changing enough to justify the $220,000 fee? </p>

<p>Again, I know that I cannot reduce the college choosing process to a mere economic proposition (as zenkoan said), but in the long term, does everything justify the fee? I mean, $220,000 is a humongous amount.</p>

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<p>@Tyler09
I learn from both, essentially. I think everyone does [Very few people can learn from books alone]. Are the people so much better than Berkeley as to justify the price hike?</p>

<p>Are the professors and colleagues much better at Stanford?</p>

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<p>Just because you can spend $220,000 on some thing doesn’t mean you should. </p>

<p>There may be valid personal reasons to choose one school over another - legacy, dramatic superiority in a given major, prestige - but all of those items are personal assessments, only the OP can decide if they are worth it. Every day someone somewhere buys BMWs, Fords or Bentleys, no one makes a traffic jam move faster, no one makes the groceries taste better, but each purchaser feels they’ve made a wise business decision. On a strictly financial rate of return basis I’ve never seen any statistics that show the increased earning power from a private school is significant enough or universally available to all majors to justify the increased cost versus a strong in-state flagship university. That doesn’t mean that given the chance, (let’s not forget the OP hasn’t been admitted to either school yet), the OP should choose UCB. It means he’s going to have to mentally, emotionally and financially justify the added expense - which of course, seems to be the point of his question.</p>

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<p>@Tyler09</p>

<p>Oh, so you don’t learn from people and experiences at Berkeley? I’m sure.</p>

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<p>Believe me, if you start your own business you’ll be working, long hours including evenings and weekends. The people I know who work the hardest are the ones who own their own business. I would say if that is your intention the connections you make at Stanford might really be beneficial.</p>

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<p>It’s not a TV, it’s an education.</p>

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<p>Do you really think anyone on this board knows whether your Stanford experience will justify the expense? That said, I’ve never met anyone who went to Stanford who was sorry they went there.</p>

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<p>OP, I recently conducted the same financial analysis as you are undertaking, and also factored in everything else I learned during repeated visits to both Stanford and Cal, which featured many conversations with students and faculty. I am going to Stanford. Cal is a great institution, but at this point in time, I concluded that Stanford in fact offers the better value for me (ok, vinceh? ; ) ) The tuition for both schools is a large amount of money; there’s also the considerable time investment, which I value at least as highly. While I won’t need to utilize debt for financing (which is a significant matter), there’s still the same issue of applying funds toward undergrad education that could be otherwise applied. </p>

<p>Incidentally: another option for the ROI analysis is examining whether you actually need a degree from either school to launch an enterprise. I know several extremely successful autodidacts who learned enormous amounts of CS and IT through self-study and “apprenticing” for others, and who launched their own consulting companies without a degree. Just some food for thought. : )</p>

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<p>I’d take Berkeley over Stanford. Even with a stronger student body, Berkeley is still an amazing engineering school with a great alumni network and they generally get hired at the best places so the job outlook is similiar.</p>

<p>The UCs are not to the point where they don’t have enough classes and it’s screwing up everyone’s graduation. In my experience, everyone on track to graduate in terms of having as many credits as they should gets into their classes without a problem, even if they’re waitlisted. As long as you don’t flip back and forth between majors and you have a plan, you will be out of there in 4 years.</p>

<p>If possible, I’d consider asking your parents if they’re willing to invest part of that difference into your grad school tuition. A strong grad school definitely does not come cheap either.</p>

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<p>That is not by any measure what I said. I stated that, provided you take advantage of the opportunity like the OP seemingly will, you will learn more from your peers and experiences with them at Stanford than at Cal. Academically, I’m not sure you stand to gain significantly more in engineering at either school. I stand by both statements.</p>

<p>I think determining which type of person (the academic or interpersonal learner) you are is extremely difficult until you’ve actually gone to college, though.</p>

<p>OP, I would also consider just how much you want to look at this in a pure “return on investment” manner. If you can afford it, go where you WANT to go, because it’s something that’s valuable to you. I’m not sure if I’m communicating this clearly, but:

  • if it is the case that if you had more money (as you will in the future) you would attend Stanford, and
    -you can make it happen now without imposing a burden you and your family are unwilling to bear
    Then go to Stanford. Because you won’t have another opportunity (You can’t just buy it later when you have more money), you won’t regret it, and to all of the alums I’ve talked to the experience is something that at any point in their lives they’d pay to do again in a heartbeat.</p>
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<p>^Alright fair enough. I misinterpreted what you were trying to get across.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, the depth of the budget cuts/crisis, and all of the uncertainty they entail, have many effects on public colleges in CA that go well beyond the ability to get into a certain class by a certain date. When I visited Berkeley most recently in the spring, there was a huge sense of frustration among the student body, and factionalism within it, because of all of the cuts, more crowded classes, and a general feeling that the administration was turning a deaf ear to their concerns. There was also a great deal of anger and frustration between the faculty and the administration, and lots of political posturing going on between them, and with the regents and other state officials. Some top faculty were being courted by other colleges who could take advantage of the situation. It wasn’t an environment conducive to community-building or participation. One can still put his head down and plow through his undergraduate years and get out of there with a respected degree, so if that is a trade-off that someone either wishes, or needs, to make, then he or she should certainly consider it. I’m looking forward to the restoration of funding to the UCs, the finest public education system ever, and hope it comes soon, but you can’t get blood from the turnip that is the California budget.</p>

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<p>@OP</p>

<p>I think it’s hard for anybody to truly answer your questions unless they’ve attended both university. There’s only so much we can tell what about what it could be like there. And I agree with you vinceh.</p>

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<p>Is the experience very different at the two? Yes. </p>

<p>I agree that if you want to start a business, Stanford would be a big advantage. At Stanford, venture capitalists from just up the hill are very involved and interact actively with students. Internships with these folks are readily available during the school year.</p>

<p>The networks available to Stanford grads don’t form at Berkeley. And yes, there are many who don’t graduate in 4 years by choice, mostly because they are working their way through college and are not participating in an undergrad experience.</p>

<p>There is weeding at Berkeley, a certain percentage will not make it in a major. There is intense competition. At Stanfird the competition was to get in and it would be hard to get a C in most classes.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, the privilege of going to Stanford is limited to so few. If I had the extra $100K I’d gladly spend it on that rather than almost anything else for my children. It will be a once in a lifetime experience.</p>

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<p>Stanford would be the cheapest school for my daughter to attend. Since we make under $100,000 we would only have paid room and board, about $12,000 and books, etc. Free ride for under $60,000. I like that most of the Ivies and Stanford have sliding scales now. No loan grants. No merit scholarships. Making use out of their large endowments. BUT, a student has to be accepted. :confused: And, with these generous grants, more and more kids are applying who are qualified, making the acceptance rate even lower. :(</p>

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<p>I’m with Redroses here. If you just want to get an engineer job or purse graduate school after 4-years, go with Cal, it saves you money. But if you’re sharp, aggressive and aiming high, just as those business majors after the IB job in the wall street, you’ll have an edge going to Stanford in becoming the next CourseRank founders, not to mention Yahoo or Google.
[Chegg:</a> Santa Clara online textbook rental startup buys CourseRank - San Jose Mercury News](<a href=“http://www.mercurynews.com/education/ci_15828320]Chegg:”>Chegg: Santa Clara online textbook rental startup buys CourseRank – The Mercury News)</p>

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<p>That’s what my parents concluded too, Redroses. Now it will be up to me to make the most of the amazing opportunity they have made possible.</p>

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<p>Ah I should have realized how stupid the TV comparison sounded… I’m sorry for the stupidity.</p>

<p>As for the work, I didn’t mean I wouldn’t have to work like crazy for a business-- I meant I don’t want to have a job for my entire life. I just didn’t write correctly.</p>

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That’s not entirely true. Berkeley EECS/CS students are highly entrepreneurial too, and oftentimes, they support each other and the organizations they formed are supported by the department or university. In fact, several graduates from EECS/CS establish ther own companies and employ one of their own. I know this for a fact because I am a friend to one CS grad who formed his own company and turned down the offer from Google. </p>

<p>OP, in case you’re wondering what those EECS/CS grads of Berkeley usually end up doing, or what the average salary of their graduates is, here are some data from Berkeley’s website: </p>

<p><a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/EECS.stm&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm[/url]”>https://career.berkeley.edu/Major/CompSci.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And, in case you’re also wondering what support systems are available to new engineering freshmen, here’s what Berkeley offers: </p>

<p>We have the Buddy Program (new students are assigned a continuing student buddy), alumni mentorship program, tutoring, peer advising, academic workshops, career planning advising and counseling services. Many EECS/CS students utilize this opportunities to better prepare themselves of the rigor of the program. </p>

<p>EECS/CS students who are interested in business are allowed to take a certificate at Haas. [BASE</a>, Undergraduate Program - Haas School of Business](<a href=“http://www.haas.berkeley.edu/Undergrad/BASE/index.html]BASE”>BASE Summer Program - Berkeley Haas)</p>

<p>I am not by any means saying that Berkeley is better than Stanford. All I am saying is, the opportunities which you think are provided by Stanford are also provided by Berkeley. So, if this comes down to an issue about cost, I don’t think the 100k grand that Stanford charges more is worth it. Maybe if we’re talking about Stanford vs a 2nd tier CS program, you shouldn’t be thinking twice. But Stanford and Berkeley are neck-and-neck for EECS/CS.</p>

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<p>Few things are entirely true, but generations of Berkeley and Stanford grads I know by and large agree that there is not the bonding, network forming vibe at Cal and never has been. I have not met a cal grad that speaks of reunions, there is no interviewing for the school, no dedication to listing jobs and internships there on the part of alum which is just basic at Stanford and similar privates.</p>

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<p>^ How well do you know Cal and their alumni? My wife is an alumna and she participates in an annual alumni reunion. She does not just attend in events, she donates to the fund raising campaigns, and she does that almost annually since she graduated from the university. There is such a thing as Cal spirit for berkeley grads. And, certainly, alumni network too.</p>

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<p>Aren’t you an alum too RML? You post pro Cal things often.</p>

<p>I live in a community full of alum from both schools. While the spirit seems alive on the one day every year when the 2 play football, I think in general the Cal spirit is not close to Stanford’s. it’s especially notable when you consider how much bigger Cal is.</p>

<p>Are your wife’s reunions full class? My Cal friends shrug when you ask about reunions and get a blank look. Stanford friends tell tales of the 5th, 10th, 25th…They know who was in their class and who does what. If their kid wants a job in telecom they know the 8classmates running telecom companies. Cal friends don’t relate to a class.</p>