Stanford... worth it?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hello,
I'm currently a senior [or atleast will be in a week].
So.. it's not like I'm expecting to get into Stanford (maybe 2% chance?) but I'm definitely applying. Anyway, so until a few days back I was a 100% sure that if I got into Stanford I would go no matter what. </p>

<p>And then I chatted with a friend and then family for a while and then I guess I was less convinced. </p>

<p>The major argument against going to Stanford was mostly money. My parents can afford to pay the fees, and even if they can't, I can easily get a loan, but that wasn't really the point. I'm planning to go into software engineering (and then do my MBA), and I really really don't want to get a job. I'll probably work for some company for a few years, but hopefully not much more. I understand that I may eventually end up working for life anyway, because it's pretty doubtful that any business I could make would survive, but still.</p>

<p>So, back to Stanford. The fee is about 200,000 for 4 years, assuming I don't get much scholarship (I don't think I would). The fee for UC Berkeley (which, according to my counselor and family friends, I am highly likely to get into) would be about $112,000 (I'm a CA resident).</p>

<p>Now, from a plain finance point of view, the difference is $88,000. Assuming I take a loan, that becomes a huge difference. I could put that $88,000 in a bank and get interest if I went to UC Berkeley, or, since I'm interested in stocks, I could use that money to start investing majorly in stocks. </p>

<p>I understand Stanford is an amazing place, and up until a few days back I had decided that money wouldn't be a factor in choosing the college I wanted to go to. However, the more I think about it, the more it seems that the 50 or 60 or 70 thousand that I could save by not going there could be put to much better use. Not only would I have capital if I wanted to start a business but I could use some of that money to get practice in stocks.</p>

<p>Thanks and sorry for the long post.</p>

2

<p>Stanford isn’t worth it; but Caltech or Harvey Mudd would definitely be worth it. You’d be significantly more likely to find research opportunities and go on to earn a PhD if you attend those school.</p>

<p>But Berkeley is good too if you’re strapped for cash…</p>

3

<p>^Nonsense, sentimentGX4. Stanford is entirely superior to Caltech and Mudd for the OP’s stated interests, and offers a vastly greater variety of courses to also round out his education. Stanford also fosters the kind of entrepreneurial spirit that would appeal to the OP. (Caltech and Mudd are fine niche schools, but in no way compare to Stanford.) Berkeley is also an excellent choice for the OP’s interests, particularly if saving the tuition differential is an important consideration. However, severe state budget difficulties have hit Berkeley and all of the UC campuses, so for the forseeable future, you’d have to look carefully at how the fiscal crisis might impact your experience there. Good luck!</p>

4

<p>Yeah, the whole UC system does have that problem. </p>

<p>I guess I didn’t phrase myself too well about the money thing. It’s not that I can’t afford it or don’t want to take a loan or anything, but I was looking plainly at it in a sort of investment light. </p>

<p>I was thinking in a “I can buy Object Stanford for $220,000 a year, and get a great experience, or Object Berkeley for $112,000 and get a good experience.” </p>

<p>It’s not so much that I’m “strapped for cash”, but I was seeing it through an investor’s point of view. I honestly believe that after I have finished my MBA, I’d be fairly easily able to use the $100,000 and grow it [not saying i’m some stock wiz - I’m not- but I am extremely interested in long term stock investing].</p>

5

<p>Are you assuming that your parents will give you $200,000 regardless of which school you attend? In most cases, if you attend a cheaper school, you just save your parents money – you aren’t really given the money you saved to invest for yourself (though, of course, I could be wrong).</p>

<p>Now, as for the original question, I can’t give you a clear answer, but I think you have to ask yourself: is the money I save by attending Berkeley worth the opportunities I lose if I don’t attend Stanford?</p>

<p>Granted, I’m a little biased because I was admitted to Stanford and didn’t even apply to Berkeley, but it seems to me like Stanford can offer you connections and a college experience Berkeley cannot. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure you could find just as many successful entrepreneurs out of Cal, but Stanford seems to have created (and will create) a majority of the big IT revolutions.</p>

<p>Trying to put my bias aside, I would still choose Stanford, even given the cost, because the connections you gain are simply invaluable.</p>

6

<p>Just to clear up some things in your posts.</p>

<p>I don’t think Stanford gives merit scholarships.</p>

<p>I don’t think a student could borrow much without well-qualified co-signers. You’d mostly be limited to federal amounts without co-signers. The federal Stafford loan amounts are $5500, 6500, 7500, 7500 for a total of $27k for four years. Some kids also get Perkins loans which only add a few more thousand.</p>

<p>You say that your parents can afford $200k+ for Stanford. Have they actually said that they will pay that much? If not, you need to ask. Many students on CC find out that their parents won’t spend as much as the student wants.</p>

<p>However, if your parents have said that they will pay $200k+, then ask if they will give you the difference if you go somewhere less expensive. </p>

<p>You mention getting an MBA. Who will be paying for that? If you save money on undergrad, can you use the “savings” towards that?</p>

<p>I infer that you have very high stats since your GC believes that you have a high chance at Berkeley. If that’s true, then you might have a high chance at a good merit scholarship at USC. Have you considered that? That also would provide “savings.”</p>

<p>There are other schools as well that might offer a high stats student a big merit scholarship that also is strong in software eng’g. I think Santa Clara would be one. </p>

<p>What are your stats?</p>

7

<p>In your particular area of computer science/engineering, Berkeley, Stanford and MIT stand together. None of the three is “worth” any more, or would open any additional doors of opportunity, than the other two.</p>

8

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<p>You have placed a price tag of $108,000 on the cost of moving from a “good” experience to a “great” experience. What in your assessment of the two schools leads you to that conclusion? As you’ve set up the problem you’ve got two possible opportunities, either Stanford will provide you with 96.4% (the increased COA vs Berkeley) “more education” and/or your Stanford degree will be $108,000 (plus interest and opportunity costs) “more valuable” than your Berkeley degree. Assuming you’re an average graduate, (i.e., one who isn’t going to trot off and make a few billion dollars with his Stanford roommate), then it is hard to envision that the starting salary differences between Stanford and UCB are large enough to justify the added expense. Of course, from a purely economical point of view the best track is probably to attend a community college for a year or two and then transfer to Berkeley thereby saving even more money in the first two years. Of course this would come at the cost of not having the “typical college experience” which you may or not value highly.</p>

<p>Will you derive 96.4% more “utility” from attending Stanford than Berkeley? From a strictly economic perspective this one is a no-brainer.</p>

9

<p>vinceh, I would agree with your POV from the strictly rational-economic perspective, but for the fact that the situation at Berkeley is unusually dicey now and not likely to improve very much in the near term. The budget problems are really severe and have a negative impact in many tangible and intangible ways. I love Berkeley and would have included it among the colleges I applied to under normal circumstances, but not under the current ones. I fervently hope that funding is restored to the UCs as soon as possible.</p>

<p>Also, I think it’s obvious that selecting a college can’t be meaningfully reduced to a purely economic proposition. The OP should definitely visit each college he is interested in, and learn first hand about the campus cultures, offerings, etc. to determine the best fit. Then, of course, he has to actually get admitted. : )</p>

10

<p>They’re all great schools. The best advice anyone can give you is that, should you choose to put down 200k+ (or 400k+ including grad/professional school), just make sure you choose a major/path that will improve your chances of getting good returns on your “investment”.</p>

11

<p>Good chance Berkeley would take 5 years with the budget crisis. Even before it, only about half were graduating in 4 years. So the cost is closer.</p>

<p>If I could afford it without big debt, I’d choose Stanford, especially considering the shape of UCs now. It’s more diverse, has far less red tape, far fewer budget issues and way more resources. Stronger overall student body too.</p>

12

<p>Stanford is an amazing school. It is certainly one of the top 5 best universities in America. However, for computer science and / or EECS (or any field in engineering or physical sciences), it is not worth $88k more than Berkeley. Both schools will provide great opportunities for a career as a software engineer equally at practically any big IT company in the Bay Area or else where. The salary scale for both school grads is pretty much comparable. SV is dominated by grads from both schools.</p>

13

<p>zenkoan,</p>

<p>Please understand that I am not making a value judgment on the differences between Stanford and UCB; I was merely pointing out that the way achalddave had set up the problem there was effectively no way that Stanford could “win” the argument. If you are only looking at out-of-pocket expenses as the basis for judging two schools then it will be impossible for Stanford to come out ahead even with the current financial uncertainties surrounding the UC system. With a $108K head start, UCB would have to undergo a traumatic drop in quality to justify choosing Stanford. This argument is true for just about anyone facing a decision between an in-state public university vs a private one. Decisions can and are about more than just the numbers, but each applicant has to decide how valuable the qualitative items are.</p>

14

<p>I understand, vinceh. However, since the OP indicated that he was in a position to afford either school without an unduly burdensome debt level, I was encouraging him to consider his decision from a more multifaceted perspective.</p>

15

<p>@Redroses</p>

<p>That’s a load of crap. The UCs are not that much worse off. The kids who graduate in 5 years are the one who either stay undeclared for too long, fail classes, or transfer from community college because they took too many unnecessary GEs and didn’t get started on the classes for their major. It’s not like it’s a coin flip and you randomly graduate at a different time. The one’s who plan out their 4 years will graduate in 4 years.</p>

16

<p>^ Agree $KingsElite$.</p>

<p>I don’t know first hand, but UCBChemEgrad has posted MANY times that UC Berkeley Engineers, of all flavors, are required to graduate within four years, have close interaction with professors, and have much smaller class sizes than the average UC Berkeley undergrad.</p>

17

<p>^ Berkeley engineering requires their undergrads to graduate in 4 years.<br>
[Freshman</a> Admission FAQ — UC Berkeley College of Engineering](<a href=“Prospective freshman FAQs - Berkeley Engineering”>Prospective freshman FAQs - Berkeley Engineering)</p>

<p>Also, Berkeley is fairly generous with AP credits allowing students to waive introductory math and physics with a score of 5 on AP tests.</p>

18

<p>If you learn more from books, academics, and studying; you know what you want, and already consider yourself proactive and knowledgeable of the game, then there may not be an appreciable difference ($100k) between Cal and Stanford for the engineering student.</p>

<p>If you learn the most from people and experiences, go to Stanford. These are the type of people who reap the full “value-added” from attending HYPSM over most other top 30 schools.</p>

19

<p>If Berkeley is significantly cheaper than Stanford I’d go with Berk, despite the budget cuts. I don’t think stanford undergrad is THAT much better.</p>

20

<p>Go with Berkeley.</p>

<p>I have several nieces and nephews who are either currently in or have recently graduated from the UC system. ALL have gotten or will get their bachelors in 4 years or less.</p>

<p>Kids who don’t graduate on time often cause the problem themselves. They change their majors, drop classes, don’t “sequence” correctly, don’t take a full load, etc.</p>