Starting over... Looking for Advice.

Parents Forum
1

Hi Everyone,

Posted on the Careers/Interships/Employment section with no results. Was told to post in parents’ section… so here it is:

Have a few questions about the degree I’m pursuing, I am going back to Community College in Orlando after taking a few years off due to the need to keep a roof over my head and school was not a possibility. I’m 35 years old now, married, need to get our lives on track, and there are no career opportunities in Orlando, only low paying hospitality jobs. My wife and I are planning on moving to South Florida where there are much more opportunities, but I don’t want to make that move without completing my degree. We set a 2 to 3 year window to make this move and I want to be able to move with an Associates Degree, I do plan on completing my Bachelors, but WILL NOT invest in such expenses without securing at least an entry level position I can build on.

I have most of my Gen Ed. Courses completed and working towards an A.S. Degree in Business Administration with a Specialization in International Business and also earning a Technical Certificate in Finance. My main reasons for the Technical Certificate is that I believe at my age I need some additional credentials to get noticed, and the additional classes taken at the C.C. will knock off some classes needed when I go for the Bachelors.

Here are my questions:

  1. I need 6 credit hours in Business Electives or Internship. Is it wise to take 1 Elective and 1 Internship, or should I just go for 2 internships and build my resume up with it.

  2. Which would be more appealing to employers:
    AS in Business Admin specializing in Intl Business w/Financial Operations Certificate
    or
    AS in Business Admin specializing in Finance w/Intl Business Certificate
    Does it make a difference?

  3. I do have experience working in management in hospitality, an addition to server/bartender. Many times I have passed on the management positions in this industry because it was such a steep pay cut, but ended up with mgt responsibilities anyways. Does this experience carry any weight pursuing future work in the fields I’m studying for?
    I imagine I will have a very hard time explaining the lack of professional experience, and why they should hire me vs. someone else half my age with relatively the same education.

  4. I am desperately trying to move on from the hospitality industry, and that’s not going to happen in Central Florida, what is my best course of action by doing this upon moving? I moved to Orlando after High School and just fell into the industry and its all I really know right now.
    I’d appreciate any tips, stories, or advice from someone who can relate or been through this. I’m not looking for any specific blue print on this one,.

2

Can you do some type of data analytics course or training?? Data analytics marketing is HUGE these days - more jobs out there than people to fill them…

3

I think you should go with your 2nd choice…AS in Business Admin specializing in Finance w/Intl Business Certificate. Here’s why…

An AS specializing Bus Admin-Finance might give you an opportunity to land some jobs as a bookkeeper or something like that in a Finance department of any medium-sized company. It’ll be easier to land a job with education/training in finance compared to focused more on international business. Even international companies need finance people.

If you’re moving to south Florida, if you could pick up some Spanish along the way, that will help, too, especially in the Miami area.

4

One of my kids is in a similar struggle to make it out of hospitality,though she is not in management like you. Have you considered working in a high end hotel and getting into higher levels of management, or are you completely done with that field?

I honestly don’t think the label of the degree or even the coursework makes that much difference, unless it is a course that teaches very specific job skills (such as computer skills, bookkeeping, property assessment, real estate etc.). I would get the associate’s in the easiest way possible so you have the degree.

I think internships are a good way to go. Build a resume. Many employers are looking for maturity and finishing a degree is one way to show that, but since you are now in your mid30’s, have a family, and have worked for some time, you already demonstrate maturity.

If you want a four year degree, maybe make sure that the classes you take now are accepted for credit.

I think you are wise to avoid debt.

I admire you, as I do my own daughter. My other two did things the “easy” way, with 4 years of residential college. My youngest works all kinds of jobs to be independent, did CC and now is in an adult learner program.

Actually, you could also look into adult learner programs for your bachelor’s. They tend to accept classes taken, give credit for life and work experience, allow for independent work, and are flexible.

Good luck!

5

I disagree in OP’s case. He is 35 and already has an assortment of work experiences. What he needs is the knowledge and skills in the fields he is pursuing. The more courses the better. Once he is past the A.S. and working on the Bachelor’s degree, internships would be more meaningful.

Personally, I find this over-focus on internships problematic.

6

Since you already have experience in the field, you might want to investigate bookkeeping jobs in the hospitality industry. If the work is flexible, this could bring in enough money (& free time) to allow you to continue your studies.

7

I don’t know much about the Data Analysis field, also the Community Colleges in my area do not offer anything related to data analysis. I’m pursuing study in International Business because I have a strong interest in dealing with other cultures and have a genuine interest in business operations outside the US. Furthermore, as a Plan B and am working on a TESOL Certificate. If I am not able to secure a reasonable position in this county, I will be relocating to Brazil with my wife, long story short with a Int’ Business Degree of any kind and TESOL credentials from the US, I would be afforded an instant work permit and would be able to command a pretty comfortable salary. Unfortunately, if I move with any kind of student debt, I will be screwed due to the exchange rate. I am interested in Finance courses, because I believe this would help set me apart from recent graduates, and in addition to added credentials that come with the coursework, most of the required classes for this specialization are also required courses for Business Admin Bachelors… So I would be hitting 2 birds with 1 stone there.

Some advice I can offer out there about learning a 2nd language, Rosetta Stone is an amazing tool. I have been using it for 2 weeks in Portuguese, and it very helpful and effective. Also it was free to use at the public library down the road form me and the two other county libraries I have been to. Once I am able to get conversational and adequate in writing, I will be taking the Spanish as well.

As for the learner program I did contact a few, and they did not feel my work experience was valid in any professional environment and I would have to take their full course plan… much higher than the C.C. I applied to. The impression I got from them was it was a big money grab they way the strung me along for weeks assessing my profile and breaking me the bad news while pressuring me to sign up before the very short deadline… unethical sales tactic in my mind.

Sylvan8798, could you please elaborate on why more courses are better than internships. I am working on the assumption of coming out with something relevant to the field on my resume is the way to go, plus the added bonus ability to professional network. Over the years I have worked with many interns, and I have noticed that they don’t seem to take advantage of the professional networking opportunities.

I am absolutely done with hospitality. There is nothing flexible with about that industry, I currently work at one of the higher end luxury resort and convention centers, and busy weekends and holidays every single person is working. Christmas eve, and day we are hosting parties and everyone from accounting to the GM are there working doing odd jobs. Accounting and Records staff have to work a night rotation one a week out of the month starting 5pm until 3:30am then 8am to 6pm the rest of the month… I thing thats harder than working nights alone in my opinion. I don’t mean to rant, but I have had my fill of this industry, and the negative far outweigh the positive.

I thank you all for the advice and kind words.

8

DD is now on her 5th (!!) internship. All unpaid. At the freshman/sophomore level, a lot of internships seem to be “make work” and not all that educational. She is now a senior and is getting more “meaningful” internships, which I call “we get worker for free” positions. At your academic level, for the time you put in, the best return is to get as much knowledge out as possible. That may mean going above and beyond in a course. An internship at this level is more likely to be make-work and thus not all that educational. Once you are at the Junior/senior level, at least you have the possibility of putting your coursework to use in an internship.

9

CLEP tests are a great way to move on faster with your degree as well especially if you have some previous knowledge. Even without that - you can easily study and prep for the tests. Each test is about $60 to take.

10

I get what you are saying. My concern is getting not being able to get my foot in the door anywhere without the opportunity to network, or at the very least build a reference pool with a previous supervisor or two I got from internships. A lot of my hesitation comes form the fact that I have worked with many highly educated people who were not able to secure any employment in the field the studied form, two really stand out to me. One with a Bachelors in Engineering,the other holding a Masters in Business Admin. These are people who tried very hard knocking on doors and littering the city with resumes, begging and pleading for work, and ultimately offering to work for free just to prove themselves. Four years later the person Masters in Business Admin just got promoted from Assistant Manager to Manager of a JC Penny, making half of the yearly income he was making when he was bartending alongside me. Last year I heard the guy who got the Bachelors in Engineering is still bartending and the place I use to work at with him. This was only a brief exchange coming from a friend of his, but the jist of it was he is saving up to move back in with his parents in North Carolina and try to get a fresh start, maybe going back to school to make himself more employable, because he feared the unused education for many years will hurt his chances. Both of these guys are very hard working, very intelligent, and socially adept to nail it home in an interview… they just never got their foot in the door and networked. I am going to be finishing school much older than them, less educated than them, and I will not invest into further education until I have secured a position that I can build a career on. I have bills, a mortgage, and have to find a way to pay for surgery to my knees and ankle so my days of working 10-15 hours a day on my feet with no break have to come to an end. I cannot afford to take out student loans for a Bachelors until I am professionally secure enough to justify the risk. Ideally find work with a company that offers tuition assistance of course. Right now I can afford the Associates out of pocket, and that is what I have earmarked for my professional education. The Bachelors is a wait an see thing.

Does bulking up on classes which is only 2 BTW, help me in any way more than an internship that i could be walking away with a reference or two plus the potential networking could bring at the ASSOCIATES level?

As for my work/life experience, it doesn’t seem to command any respect outside hospitality which I am desperately trying to leave. Although I do have management experience, employers I have reached out look at it as babysitting transient 20 year olds in a F&B setting. This came from a friend who got me an interview with his company, and I asked him for complete honesty after he met with his HR person on my interview assessment, they liked me wanted to hire me but thought they would be training someone with no real world experience. I notice during my interviews, the HR person or Manager across the table go from full smile to closed face tight lipped smirk when i discuss my management experience in F&B. I tell them about improvements I am responsible for in the P&L, the rise in GSS, and my many positive references and Employee of the Month Awards… it seems to fall on deaf ears. The only thing my work experience says about me is that I can remain with a company for many years as a bartender proving that I am not a thief, and have been promoted to management in a low wage/low skill industry and held the position for a long time making me competent enough to do that job. Honestly, the interviewers spend more time asking me about my volunteer experience with the local animal shelter… that says it all.

About the CLEP tests, I will look into it. I have been out of school for many years, so I would like to get a few of the Pre-Req. courses I am required to take out of the way and help me get back into study mode.

11

I’m not trying to be negative here, I have worked so hard to get pretty much nowhere in life and have to make a change. My wife and i want to start a family, but there is no way it can be done financially, and with the schedules we have to keep just to make ends meet. After being honest with myself and objective observation of my peers and their situations, I have determined that its is a combination of my lack of education and lack of opportunities where I live. Neither solution to this problem is quick or cheap, luckily my wife has been very supportive in me finish my degree.

12

No possibility of running your own bar or restaurant?

13

If you decide to explore the CLEP testing idea, there is a terrific forum DegreeForum.net with loads of info, degree plans, support, and insider info. It’s free…but the $10 upgrade to access the additional info is well worth the money once you get a plan in place. Private message me if you want some more info after researching it. The library has the study guides and there are reliable online study options as well.

14

Since you find the local job market pretty bleak, I would take classes over internships. However, if you can find an internship outside hospitality or that will give you some experience in either finance or international business, that would be a good idea. Talk to the advisors at the community college and see what students have done in the past.

I would consider just doing the AA degree without the certificate, depending on how much time this adds to your studies before you can move. The sooner you are living in the market where you want to find a job, the better. Take additional classes after you move as needed.

My hunch is finance is more generally marketable at the associates level when job hunting. I think corporations would prefer to have people with 4-year degrees in overseas and international assignments.

15

Have you considered other employers? Publix has a great management training program with good money to be made.
It may be up your alley with business background. Don’t believe college degree required.

16

Well, I did internships in my 50’s. All through my 40’s and 50’s I did volunteer community service, and when my kids were older I did internships in the area of my interest. My resume looks good, considering (relatively speaking). When I did apply for work, I got interviews almost every time I applied to positions on craigslist, anyway.

I have watched all three of my kids gain skills, build resumes, and make connections through internships. I tell my own daughter that they may be more important than her degree. Employers want people who have the skills for the job. In the case of someone who wants to do something specific, like bookkeeping, of course coursework is important though.

Thirty-five is young, and so far your experience is in a field you don’t want to work in. I would try to build a resume of sorts.

I really sincerely wish you good luck. Your situation is a hard one and I admire your commitment.

17

To be truthful, I don’t know much about the alternatives you ask about and forgive me if I am about to state the obvious, but…

Step number one is to check out the articulation agreements at the CC you attend. If you aren’t familiar with the term, an articulation agreement spells out which CC courses will be accepted at a particular 4 year college with which the CC has such an agreement and the conditions under which it will be accepted. If you want to get a 4 year degree eventually, then the most important question is whether a 4 year college you would like to attend will accept the CC course for credit. If it won’t, then I would advise you not to take it. For more specific information, see this link. http://www.flbog.edu/forstudents/ati/transfer.php

I don’t know how it works in Florida, but here in NYC, if you transfer to a college which is part of CUNY (City University of New York) from a New York City community college, you can use course credits at the CUNY to fulfill the requirements for an associate’s degree.

18

It won’t let me edit my post above, so trying again.

To be truthful, I don’t know much about the alternatives you ask about and forgive me if I am about to state the obvious, but…

Step number one is to check out the articulation agreements at the CC you attend. If you aren’t familiar with the term, an articulation agreement spells out which CC courses will be accepted at a particular 4 year college with which the CC has such an agreement and the conditions under which it will be accepted. If you want to get a 4 year degree eventually, then the most important question is whether a 4 year college you would like to attend will accept the CC course for credit. If it won’t, then I would advise you not to take it. For more specific information, see this link. http://www.flbog.edu/forstudents/ati/transfer.php

I don’t know how it works in Florida, but here in NYC, if you transfer to a college which is part of CUNY (City University of New York) from a New York City community college, you can use course credits at the CUNY to fulfill the requirements for an associate’s degree. So, it often makes more sense to attend the local CC for 3 semesters rather than 4, transfer to a CUNY and take courses there which allow you to get that AA degree. Just a HUNCH…and I admit it’s that; I don’t really know–it MAY be better to take that internship course at the 4 year college rather than the CC. An internship done as a junior or senior in the area you want to live in will probably enhance your job prospects more than one you took as a freshman or sophomore at a CC in a different geographic area.

19

I want nothing to do with running restaurant or bar, let alone owning one. Keeping operation costs in line with profit margins is hard enough with regulations and mandated vendors taking steep advantage of you, then you have to find a way to keep staff who work for $3.13 an hour, live on no tips, and receive Zero benefits because you cannot afford to unless you have massive startup funds. There is a reason that restaurants and bars have the highest probability of failure among any startup.

Doing the AA Degree wouldn’t add much to my timeline, maybe a semester or two. I have considered that, and was leaning to the AS Degree in Int’ Business with the Certificate in Finance for these reasons:

  1. I am attending Valencia Community College which is right by my house taking 3 classes, this woud have my graduation date sometime nearing next year to complete my AS with Intl Business, I can also take 1 class a semester at Seminole State College that is closer to my work to complete the Finance Certificate. A co worker is going for the same certificate, and she said I can have her books after she is done as long as I give them back after so she can get the credit at the bookstore.
  2. Almost all the courses that are offered in the A.A. Degree that I need to complete after my A.S. Degree, are offered in the the Finance Certificate. I believe I would be shy a Social Science and Humanities class to take to compete the A.A.
  3. I have already completed the Foreign Language requirements with Spanish, and I am VERY VERY Basic conversation level in that. Honestly I am much better at conversing in Portuguese, obviously being married to a Brazilian helps that out. The bulk of what I have learned came for Rosetta Stone (Can’t Stress how great that Program is BTW).

Taking steps for in Internation Business Degree was a suggestion by my Academic Advisor because she kept revisiting my work History with Royal Caribbean stationed Overseas. She said that even though my experience with them was strictly F&B Supervision, a Intl Business Degree with that experience could possibly open extra doors for me since I had to understand maritime law, and be aware of the laws of each country we ported at and counsel employees and passengers of them… as well as know which employees and passengers were not permitted access on shore due to their country of origin.

My advisor was from Miami, we had a long conversation about that area. She was aware that I am looking to leave Central Florida for an area with more robust job market, she admitted to being bias towards Miami because she lived there so long but did say that the demand and opportunities are there which I could tell just by looking at jobs online at indeed.com. She knows that I am eager to move and make a fresh start, but want to be able to create more options. She advised me that Miami Dade College (her former employer has cheaper admissions), offers the classes I can take to fill in the AA Gap, and transfer to somewhere like FIU or FAU to complete my Bachelors degree. She says that an AS Degree in Intl Business is pretty broad and lacks direction of other specializations, but becoming Bilingual or Trilingual stands out better. The Finance Certificate just proves I have taken courses specifically designed for an entry level position, but I could separate it form the AS Degree on my resume which is one more thing to talk about in an interview. It also doubles as filling A.A. requirements, and lessens the courses I need to take when pursuing my Bachelors. She did say I will look a little lost when it the eyes of college admissions and advisors, but in the end they are taking my checks not signing them. She said it looks much better to employers if I explain that I completed my AS and obtained a Certificate that covers AA required courses that I could afford out of pocket, and will take out loans once I have secured a position that I can build a career on. She says it looks smart form a personal finance standpoint and conveys the maturity factor that comes with may age.

I’m not 100% sure about this plan overall, the ethical part of me sees this as padding the resume, but the practical part of me knows there is no deception going that route either. All I know is that I will be competing with younger people with higher level of education than me.

As far as Publix I know a few people who work there. They basically tell me “Its Better than Wal-Mart,” and corporate is a pain to deal with, but if you can get in with corporate, you are set. I’m not down on them but I’m not sure I would put them in my to 5 companies I’m going to seek upon graduation.

My advisor was overall neutral on internships, she did say they have obtained much more participants, and the options for quality internships. I remember years ago when I went there the internship pool was just limited to Disney, Universal, Mail Rooms and Retail Banks. She says they are still good internship partners, but have much more. I guess I will wait an see. I’m pretty sure I will take at least 1 internship, I feel I need to have more non-hospitality experience on my resume and the networking possibility is just too enticing to pass up. I haven’t decided if I will do a 2nd internship or take an business elective course though. I appreciate all the advice here and welcome. as much as anybody is willing to give.

20

“The only thing my work experience says about me is that I can remain with a company for many years as a bartender proving that I am not a thief, and have been promoted to management in a low wage/low skill industry and held the position for a long time making me competent enough to do that job. Honestly, the interviewers spend more time asking me about my volunteer experience with the local animal shelter… that says it all.”
.
No. It doesn’t mean you lack skills.
You underestimate work ethic as a plus in your favor.
You need to spend more time researching the companies that respect that.
And then you need to spend some time learning to promote yourself to get the job.
Don’t expect others to hire you if you don’t believe you aren’t worth their time.

Two things:

  1. You dismissed Publix as a suggestion who has a wonderful management program right up your alley
    Maybe it isn’t for you. But explore the possibilities that companies offer.
    Starbucks has paid for college opportunities.
    There are probably other companies with good opportunity that will not only train you but help you get that college degree.

  2. You want out of hospitality. But that is where your experience lies. Some of your friends (from what I understand from your posts) haven’t escaped hospitality because the money is still there. So they stick with it. Sounds like you are there with them.
    Hospitality has a lot of facets. Look for something that DOES interest you in that field. Start with a company that interests you in some respect and see what your options may be.