<p>I don't Berurah because we already have too much computer activity going on and I am trying to reduce it........Sometimes I can check out cc at work (like now), but that may end soon. H and I will be starting a totally new business venture soon and will not have time for anything!!!</p>
<p>Sokkermom - I hear what you are saying - however the next line shows the difference: - a top female athlete - top stats - from rural Texas - a musician - interested in science. How easy do you think it is for schools like Emory or WashU to find kids with those qualifications. Not all that easy & it is usually the top female atlete/scholar combo that weeds out most of the kids. The rural Texas - musican - science is an added bonus. But again I can only comment on personal experience and yes - good backups & safeties that one can be happy at are always a good idea.</p>
<p>...so if my son only had a sex change and a different place of residence he would have been golden. Darn, If we only knew that then, we would have more money in our pocket now. </p>
<p>top scholar - check
top athlete - check
science - check
math wiz - check
Performing Artist - check</p>
<p>female ---- NO
rural texas--- NO</p>
<p>P.S. He did get accepted to WUSTL, but with no $$$.......</p>
<p>ST2, I do get your point though also get many of the others. </p>
<p>Mudgette is a PRIME candidate. She has the goods. She has the profile. She should not sell herself short and definitely is an appropriate candidate to the most competitive schools. HOWEVER, those schools CANNOT be counted on. I'd caution to be realistic about the situation with the top schools in the land. It has nothing to do with Mudgette. Too often, kids like that (mine too) are told left and right...."you'll get in anywhere" but not so. But they should apply. They should have a balanced list of reaches, matches and safeties that they love. </p>
<p>Mudgette, like you say, ST2, DOES have some "extra" things going for her beyond her academic stats. But again, there are many others out there that do too and they are not all going to be accepted. She surely stands a good chance, sure. Just as a point of reference, my own kid had very similar stats as Mudge (though did not take the ACT).....in terms of tests, val, GPA, etc. etc. She was also from a rural area. She also was a state level musician and on two instruments. She also was accomplished and won awards in math and science. She also was an accomplished athlete, in three varsity sports. Those things were similar. She did not raise goats, however! I do think Mudge should play up them goats. A girl here raised sheep and got a scholarship to Middlebury. </p>
<p>If the family qualifies for need based aid, they should not rule out the highly selective schools as sometimes they are the ones with the most to give in that way being need blind. We qualified and my kids do get aid. My D who applied to very selective schools, mostly had schools with NO merit aid and in fact, we assumed none did to later learn that two schools on her list did have it and gave it (Lehigh, her safety, gave a substantial amt. and Smith...gave merit money, need money and a research assistant position). If a student like Mudgette adds some schools a tier or so down, that do offer merit money, those may come through. For my other D, we did not realize her schools gave out merit scholarships but they did and she got them at every one. She has a substantial scholarship now at NYU and her stats were not those of Mudgette's though not shabby or much lower and she is accomplished in several areas too. </p>
<p>So, go Mudge. Add some more selective schools than you might have been thinking originally but do have a balanced list and DO go into it with a realistic knowledge of the situation at the most elite schools in the land where outstanding candidates like yourself are not always admitted. Some are. Hope your card comes up if you want it to. There are lots of places you can go and I'm sure you will have some fine options. </p>
<p>Oh, and for ST2....just because you were mentioning this girl's particular profile and optimism for that profile (not that I disagree with you about that), I just want to show you how such a profile can still turn out at IVIES (just using IVIES for this point).....</p>
<p>The only Ivies my D applied to and the results:</p>
<p>Yale: deferred EA, eventually rejected
Princeton: waitlisted
Penn: accepted and selected as Ben Franklin Scholar
Brown: accepted, attending</p>
<p>That is what I mean that you can't count on it but should go for it if you like schools like these and they are a good fit. Just be realistic of what elite admissions can be like no matter how qualified and outstanding and unusual, etc. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>PS...I think Mudgie should take the SAT Subject tests. I think some selective schools will require this and she is knocking them out by not taking the tests. I know no kid wants to take more tests. She simply can look the practice books over, take two practice tests for one hour each, see how she fares, and go from there. That is NOT a lot of time and that is ALL my kids did. D2 did three SAT2s and only ONE of her schools highly suggested them. She scored very high on two of these and in fact, is going to this college.</p>
<p>Is sex change a hook?</p>
<p>1sokkermom, didn't know you were also a Duke Mom--your son sounds like merit money material to me! There is clearly a regional bias at work, but congrats to your S for living his life so fully in high school regardless. My S is a freshman at Duke, a school where he expected to be waitlisted. Do I know why they accepted him? No! Wish someone from admissions had indicated why, but no one ever spoke to him for any reason. He had already "attached" to match schools, where he was more certain of admission and did receive honors offers that were tempting. We assume his essays made a big difference and that there was a need for his instrument. Freshman at Duke were told that 800 valedictorians were not admitted this year. My S barely made the top 5% cut. His buddy who had sterling character, a couple of 800s on testing, higher grades and higher rank and higher sports awards was waitlisted. Neither my son or his fine friend were offered merit money at two privates.<br>
One tiny tidbit of new advice is to politely ignore people who are going to discourage your D from applying to one school or another, based on stories of kids they know who were incredible but not admitted. (My S was discouraged by a couple pals from applying to Duke but declined to Not Try. He gave it his best and he gave his match schools his best, too.) Once you are in the Very Eligible Pool, your S or D does indeed have a chance and no parent or teacher or friend can predict outcomes. Better stats are not solid predictors. Just get in the game and search out your best fit in April.</p>
<p>So Curmudge...although I predict that your D will be in the subset considered for private merit money at selective schools, give your match schools an equal chance since they may offer more financial support. In April, you can take a deep breath and decide what is best. Get comfortable with not knowing for a while. We will all try not to drive you nutty and to give you and D time to sort out the lists and explore "fit". Get out there and make apts with Alum Interviewers early though, make contact with academic track people of interest, and get ready to FAX in late honors after the winter break. Keep your applications active, updated and stay open.</p>
<p>I agree with ST2, there definitely ARE major differences between your S, Sokkermom, or mine, for that matter, and Curm's D. Yes, she's a girl interested in science, a claim neither one of our sons could make. and yes, she comes from a different place, but not just outside of the NE where we and half the world's BWRKs come from, but from an extremely rural background, including that she raises goats, for Pete's sake! Wouldn't you want her sitting next to your kid in class? She's got experiences and interests that our kids wouldn't bump into in their lives otherwise. i think that makes her quite possibly worth money our kids might not attract.</p>
<p>garland, agree.</p>
<p>FWIW One of my friend's kids received "need based" aid of $15K at a NESCAC school, but <em>not one cent</em> of need based aid at USC. At the NESCAC school, this kid would've been an athlete.</p>
<p>So I suspect: some need based awards are merit awards in disguise.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So I suspect: some need based awards are merit awards in disguise
[/quote]
SBmom~ I couldn't agree more! ;) ~b.</p>
<p>garland - my sentiments entirely - don't want to sound sexist - but gender combined with athletics and other interests does make a big difference. If you notice, my initial post illustrated our formula 2-3 reaches, 2-3 matches & 2 safeties. In our case anything over 8 applications was like pulling teeth and quality of the completed product was going to suffer. Possibly some of the other posters here have better persuasive powers with teenagers than we did. But I know what our limits were. So as they said in Indiana Jones - choose wisely the cup that you will drink from. </p>
<p>When it comes to the top schools, nothing is guaranteed and yes sometimes there seems to be no logic to the outcome. Be realistic, but don't listen to the nay sayers. Give it your best shot, but at the same time make sure that you can be happy at your matches or safeties. The admissions people have to complete a big puzzle and I immagine it can not be that easy to find all the proper matching pieces to complete the picture they want for their campus. All I know is that we have one happy kid - and isn't that all a parent can ask for. Cur - still would like to see them on the same court next year.</p>
<p>I have "heard" from reliable sources that at some private schools your "need" can be somehow related to their need of you--- not that they make it all up, but there may be certain items which can be counted or not, like home equity, when computing your need formula.</p>
<p>Reading about poster's actual experiences with admissions and fin/merit aid is what I find most helpful about CC. It is also comforting in many ways. I am on my third kid going thru this process in a four year time frame.</p>
<p>Another advantage of applying to more "reach" schools than you think is reasonable is the opportunity to request a financial aid review from the student's top choices. We were hopeful that S would qualify for merit aid, which he did, but not at the most selective schools on his list. (Of course!) He was offered a comparatively small amount of need-based aid at one of his top 3 choices, which was a surprise since our EFC indicated that we would not qualify for any need-based help. We did find that having an offer of money from a school in the top 5 (UNSWR) meant that the other schools on his short list would at least try to match that. Clearly, they are only going to try to match aid offers from comparable schools. So I think the idea that need-based aid is comingled with merit aid was true for us.</p>
<p>Like you, Curmudgeon, we had prepped our son with the idea that he would either go in-state public or have to get significant merit aid. But when push came to shove, it just seemed like we had to let him "go for the gold." While it's not easy financially, I now think it would have been a mistake for us to parlay his academic success for merit aid, at the cost of being the brightest fish in a given pond. For us to coerce him to attend one of the schools offering full tuition seemed like a sell-out. I remember TheDad saying once that he felt his daughter had kept up her side of the implicit bargain of childhood, by being a high achiever. So he felt that he had to keep his side by making it possible for her to attend the school which would best allow her to continue her growth and development. (TheDad -- Sorry if I misquoted you!!!)</p>
<p>You people are too fast for me! By the time I've typed a post, I find I'm repeating other people's thoughts that were posted while I was typing. Sorry for the duplicate thoughts!</p>
<p>Er, for you parents of science-oriented boys: they are hot property at a number of excellent LAC's that also offer the added perk of having an overabundance of girls for them to meet. If anything, the gender thing worked far more to my son's advantage than it seems to be shaping up for my daughter, who unfortunately has the more traditional (for females) arts & literature bent.</p>
<p>Calmom--agreed. Tried to get S interested in LACs, but he turned out to like the big bustle of a U better. He was going thru the motions of applying to some LACs, esp the one where his sister was which gives sib legacy, but his heart wasn't in it. And by fall had been accetped to two U's, so it wasn't an issue. I do feel though, that it's a valid consideration.</p>
<p>calmom - you hit it spot on. It is all about choosing wisely. Like it or not it is the economics of supply and demand. Identify the best fit - which means find the place that wants you as much or more than you want them. Once you identify your target schools - package the application to show the applicants best attributes as desired by the school. If you are a female athlete that is interested in science and have the stats to back it up - then look for a school where the predominance of applicants are not from your area (geograpic diversity) and you are well under way. Have a theme to your application where everything is pointed towards a central theme. If possible, it is useful to have someone at the school be an advocate for the applicant. It could be an adcom or a senior staff member eg. Dean or similair. </p>
<p>Show interest, not the end all be all, but all schools like to feel loved. You don't have to visit - but contact with the school, attend local presentations etc. I am a firm believer in overnight dorm visits - since it is the best way to discover the type of kids that the applicant will spend the next 4 years with. Apply for every merit scholarship possible offered by your top choices. They often figure that if you took the time to complete multiple applications - there must be some interest. Anyway worked for us twice - so I assume there must be some validity to the formula.</p>
<p>Sjmom, your quote captures the essence of what I said...I don't even remember the exact words myself and TheMom says I misquote <em>everything</em> anyway, LOL.</p>
<p>At least TheD didn't attend the <em>most</em> expensive school around and got some merit money. She may be a rare case in that I look at the combination of experiences--academic, social, artistic, research--she's having that are unique to where she is and I think that she wound up <em>exactly</em> in the best place for <em>her</em>. Yes, she'd have had other great experiences at other schools but this combo would be hard to match.</p>
<p>Sokkermom, on your check list, you forgot the goats. Never forget the goats, they're important.</p>
<p>"Given my experience with goats, I think I am less likely to be fleeced in NYC...."</p>
<p>The Dad: Does it count that he very often smelled like a goat? ...or that his room was a pig pen?</p>