<p>As I PMed to Curmudgeon when I first joined here: He is my favorite poster on CC (See, you do have a fan club whether you like it or not!). The best posters here solicit advice and freely share their knowledge. I applaud Cur for baring his soul by starting this thread and I have learned a lot from reading it.</p>
<p>I value every one of Cur's posts and completely empathize with his family's dilemma. Nothing could be harder than being accepted to a "dream" school and then not being able to afford to attend. There are so many factors and things that must be balanced. As amazing as Cur's daughter sounds, she is still a 17 year old kid who is faced with a huge task and huge decisions which impact her whole family.<br>
When you turn to a public forum for advice, you get the good and the bad. This forum is really wonderful and I am totally addicted. There are some rough times on it, but NOTHING compared to the trash that occurs on some of my other forums.
I really value the community we have on this forum. My non-addicted friends think I have some sort of secret life, like when kids make up imaginary friends! If you think back on some of our other long, complicated threads, there are always some ruffled feathers. It's all worth it, though- at least to me.</p>
<p>Cur,
All I have to say is I am pushing for Hamilton College so that I might have the privilege to met both you and your daughter at Family Weekend! My daughter says the school needs more students from the South to help her explain what southerners are all about!!</p>
<p>Good luck to you both.</p>
<p>Curmudge.. save your energy and ignore negative energy... savor this season as parent, remembering that these are great weeks with your almost grown girl who is a treasure...that you are still very needed by her as a parent and trusted sounding board. This is about modeling "dealing with uncertainty" as a parent. Sometimes I didn't manage this with as much equilibrium as I would have liked, and sometimes I envied those families who picked something sensible and didn't reach out to the unknown world. We appreciate you sharing with us. I am reading this post as a parent who misses her freshman and is recalling our last trips together with great fondness..that hectic trip to New England, the last minute drop of an Early Decision plan, the crazy work on 8 applications, the interviews, the waiting, the FAXing in of late "honors", the waitlist that disappointed, the admissions that brought joy, the April trips and the final sorting out to a choice I would never have predicted in October.
It is OK and normal to be in limbo and unsure, ya''ll will be in limbo till spring comes round. As parents of gifted kids...sometimes we have to stop them and say "You don't have to 'be so good.'" You don't have to make sense and neither does she, in this season of possibility followed by change, just hang with the unknown dominating your life for a while. About the time my S turned up incredibly higher test scores than we expected right before ED deadline..turning our apple cart over...stress really picked up in our house. We were on planes Oct 22.. and driving in previously never seen NEastern states as darkness fell around us about 4:30 pm (whoa!). One of my eyes started not functioning correctly in early November. Was shooting some hoops with little brother and suddenly my eyes couldn't follow the ball...Went to a doc but I cancelled my CAT scan as I was pretty sure it was Last Minute College Tours with Too Many Great Options and Apps Distress Syndrome. What do you know, my eyes work just fine now, but my son is really truly gone. Someplace where he is happy, fulfilled and surrounded by adults and students that intrigue him. And all of his schools could have offered that outcome.
It is not all about stress--we readers are plugged into your happiness quotient, too. Despite my temporary flipped out vision, we also experienced it all with that happy jittery undertone that you are experiencing, because in your heart you are certain your D will be somewhere that is just wonderful next year. You will make a great decision in April and you just don't have to know what you will be able to do re finances and choices now.</p>
<p>i agree with jmmom: phooey!</p>
<p>And even if you had bragged, or wanted to show off, so what? I show off all the time - and offer up my sob stories. I just try to applaud in return when others show off and offer a shoulder in return when they cry. You offer your help to others gracefully. If we can't show off here in semi-anonymous internet land then, to use jmmom's vernacular, phooey!</p>
<p>Just you never mind those nay-sayers. If there even were any. I will try not to post any more on this thread if you want it to die. But please please please keep us updated on mudgie's progress.</p>
<p>I don't think anyone is here to brag. I think we're here because it is difficult to have these kinds of conversations with our neighbors, friends, even family because they usually do not have the awareness of the college admissions process or the knowledge of most of the colleges under discussion. They also generally find this kind of discussion (gasp!) boring.</p>
<p>I think what Robrym was trying to say got swept away too quickly here: never assume that what you are offering is unique enough in and of itself to be a hook. Never, ever assume that just because you haven't encountered someone in your neck of the woods that does what you or someone else does that it is unique enough to be a hook in and of itself --- true hooks are more than that. </p>
<p>For example, I know lots of kids in our small rural town who are involved with raising goats, pigs, endangered tortoises, beef steer, horses, wolf cubs, Emu's and even a zebra! They also live on ranches and ride and hunt and know what to do when you meet up with a rattlesnake or a scorpion. It's just part of life in our area. </p>
<p>Not only that, but we're not unique in this area --- go to Minnesota or Iowa (where lots of Carleton's applicants will come from) and you'll meet hundreds, perhaps thousands, of farm kids who have grown up doing these sorts of activities. Go to Idaho, Montana, even upstate New York, and you'll find lots of other kids with similar backgrounds.</p>
<p>I am not saying any of this to take away from Cur's daughter, only to point out that I think that Robrym raised an important point that no one seemed to respond to or appreciate.</p>
<p>In short: Just because folks in another part of the country
think doing "ranchy" things is unique and common, it does not mean that there will not be several hundred other equally qualified applicants in the pool who have also done similar things.</p>
<p>Robyrm made an excellent point: just having done something is not a hook --- what makes it a hook is showing how having done something has helped you develop unique characteristics that stand out in the crowd of other goat breeders.</p>
<p>In my daughter's case, for instance, she has written an essay that is, on the surface, about breaking a green broke horse. But, on a deeper level, it is also about what she learned in the process about herself, life, and her relationship with the world. When she first told me what she was writing about I cringed, because I worried it would be a trite topic, but it works because it is not so much about her experiences with green broke horses as it is about HER.</p>
<p>I wish Cur's daughter all the luck in the world and I think she can present an excellent application package (as he knows from our private conversations) but I do think we need to be careful not to suggest that any of us knows what is the true hook or unique aspect of her personality and experiences she should market to colleges. Only she can decide that, and it has to come from her gut in order to be real. Cur's daughter needs to find what it is that brings out that special quality about her that sets her apart and emphasize that, whether it be about goats, science, music, or something else. </p>
<p>Cur, I hope you will not take offense to what I am saying --- as I said, you know I wish her all the best. But, sometimes, too much advice can dilute what makes an applicant truly special. Encourage her to listen to herself and she will be fine.</p>
<p>Wolf cubs and emus! You do live in an interesting town, Carolyn! My city kids are so deprived . . .</p>
<p>If you want a real fun time, come down for our annual Gymkhanna -- everyone brings out their various animals beforehand for the parade. Quite a sight to see, and also quite a task for the parade committee to decide which animals should walk next to which in the parade. There have been a few near disasters over the years (the wolf cubs didn't get along too well with the goats for instance and the Emu's prefer to march by themselves and no one wants to follow horses because of the road apples they leave behind) Makes for a very entertaining morning :)</p>
<p>My point --- and Robyrm's I believe---is not to say that Cur's daughter should not highlight any of these things in her application, essay or interviews. Just that none of us should make assumptions about what is the most unique or special thing about her. Only she (with help from Cur and Mrs. Cur perhaps) can find that and make it real for an admissions committee. As Robrym says, that's the art of writing a good college application.</p>
<p>
<p>She will write about her calculus teacher who was frightening and wouldn't accept her shyness and inspired her to be bold. She will write about Mr. Ramirez who will benefit from her boldness the next time he is in the hospital because she demanded a change in the way volunteers were trained . The fact that she is now working on a presentation to effect that change in training is part of who she is. She will write what she lives and if that is not good enough...... then we might consider bringing out the magic tricks if she's waitlisted.
</p>
<p>Carolyn, why would I be offended? My daughter's essays have long ago been picked by her and have nothing to do with the ranch, as I discussed in the quote above. Carolyn, you don't have to worry, she won't use a cutesie topic or literary device that any adcom will think is a gimmick. She will write about people and events that changed her in a meaningful way. Will it be art? I guess that will be in the eye of the beholder. </p>
<p>As to what is or is not a hook or tip for a middle class white kid , I can only tell you about a meeting D had with a scholarship coordinator at a top ten school. This particular person was responsible for a scholarship aimed at supporting those who encouraged diversity . The scholarship had recently been opened to caucasians who promoted diversity in their communities and would do so on campus. </p>
<p>At this meeting the coordinator made a point of showing off a group photo of all of the previous scholarship winners in attendance. She was pointing at each face and telling a story about where they came from. After several D asked-how many of them came from a rural background? The lady thought about it a long time and said, "well so and so is from such and such" naming a city of 100,000 . D laughed and told her that was a city and asked again how many from a truly rural, farm or ranch background and the answer was "You know what? None of them." We had the same response from the Penn adcom she met at their traveling show.</p>
<p>How much is that worth? I don't know. Not enough to center your app around in my opinion. Would it be different at Carleton as opposed to Penn? Yep. I'd have guessed it would. I think to rely on "ranch raised" essays that don't tell us anything about the writer would be as bad as relying on writing tricks or devices to make up for essays without substance. But none of that matters to my D who is going to write about what she wants to tell the schools about herself. Straightforward? Perhaps. But maybe that is what she is trying to express. That she is writing without guile or pretense. Bare and basic and to the bone. Will some schools like her approach? I hope so. Will some hate it? I would assume so.</p>
<p>So no , I find nothing offensive in what you posted about essays. I think it's admissions 101.</p>
<p>I really think we've gone off track here as we often do. I do appreciate the thoughtful posts. I do wish this thread would die, but it seems to continue growing a new head. Everyone is proud of their own kid and everyone is proud of their particular take on the art of admissions, if there is such a thing (but I'll assume there is so I might make it out of here alive). We have to remember though that when we start telling people that we know best what their kid ought to do or that someone has everything all bassackwards , well- I'd suggest that's usually not a good idea. Suggest that you see it differently, yes. Tell them directly they are wrong-not so bright. </p>
<p>Carolyn has a way of giving advice gracefully which has been commented on by others in the past. We can all learn from her efforts to be non-abrasive.</p>
<p>Now, if we need a thread on essay topics or universal truths or hooks, or ladders for that matter (all of which I never intended to discuss on this personal thread) -can we please start a thread that is NOT about poor ol' D? LOL. I'm begging ya people. There is a DNR on this thread. Pretty please?</p>
<p>It is true that what some readers find is an unsual activity, others will not because of where you are from. I recall when my oldest was an applicant and we were discussing ECs on here, I readily admitted that none of my D's ECs were unique. Others started telling me how unusual the fact was that she was an alpine ski racer. I NEVER thought of that as unique. It surely is not where we come from. I recall someone giving an example of a unique activity...hip hop dance. Um, no both my kids take hip hop and so do lots of kids I know. So, yes, raising certain animals is real unique sounding to those who live in metropolitan areas but not as much as from certain regions. </p>
<p>Cur, I had to laugh at your D's finding it funny as to what some thought were a small town (100,000, lol). The biggest city in our state has about 38,000 and that is the CITY here. My town has about 1700 people. Again, this kind of rural living seems unusual to those from cities and suburbia and true there are tons of applicants to college from those kind of areas, more than from rural ones. But rural is not really a hook or utterly unique. One pro about being from rural is that there are not lots of kids from your school applying to the same selective colleges. But as I said before, that is balanced out that the adcoms never heard of your little school. </p>
<p>I agree with Cur that the topic of what the essay is about is not as important as the points about the kid that she/he is trying to get across. Some kids pick topics for essays like.....I'll write about my newspaper work, or my orchestra, etc. Instead, kids need to BEGIN with what do I want them to learn about me? What traits/qualities do I have that I want them to glean? So, while my D's favorite passion is skiing, her essays were not about skiing. She had many college essays. But one was set in soccer but in my view, it really was not ABOUT soccer or telling them she is a soccer player. The story was set in a soccer setting but told so much about who she was. That is what I see your D doing but also Carolyn's example with the green horse story. So, your D need not write about goats. She did good to find something about her personal qualities to bring out in whatever topic she chose or whatever stories she narrates that show those attributes. The goats? Those could just be a one liner on her activity resume. They are an interest of hers and adds to her interesting profile whether unique or not. They are part of who she is. Setting essays in a way that reveal one's background also shows a flavor as to where they are coming from. I know in one essay my D wrote, while it was NOT about this fact, it did come out the many miles she drove from one activity to another due to the rural nature of where we live...it just was part of telling the story she was telling. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>Since Curmudgeon has asked for this thread to be closed, I am doing so. Moderator Skyhawk</p>