@JustOneDad the original question you asked.
There are some state flagships which are selective enough so that they are not safeties for anyone.
There are some students for whom no flagship would be an admissions safety for them, even if they were in-state.
There are some state flagships which are just too expensive for low income in-state students, due to poor financial aid, so they cannot be safeties for such low income in-state students.
Averages are useless. It really is dependent on each applicant’s state and circumstance.
Maybe we should say “More often than not”?
Where I used to live, the state flagship was the reach the school, the Holy Grail for most of the students.certainly not their safely. So it was for my nieces and nephews as well.,some of whom did not get accepted to the state flagships. Here in NY, it varies. My kids did use some SUNYs as safeties and matches. For many kids, at the end of the day, they end up being the best deal financially.
That rocks the boat. According to nearly every other student on here, the Holy Grail is Stanford and Harvard.
Michigan has Michigan State as an option as well, which is easier to get into.
That’s here. The average college students goes part time, commutes and works at least part time. It takes them a while to get that degree, sometimes with breaks in between. Most students apply to local schools, don’t sweat the app process as the admissions is no big deal
If you are talking about students looking for safeites that are applying to HPYMCS,the state school may well be a safety, though not here in NY of such students I know…Those “high fliers” often have other less selective, but still selective schools as safeties. The kids I know right now have Fordham, NYU, Boston U as safeties. Their stats are high enough that they will very likely get into those schools, and they have good chances of getting into their match schools, if not their reach. Son’s best friend was rejected from Columbia, deferred from MIT, accepted to Fordham at this point in time. Expects to get into NYU and some other match school, though has those reaches heavy on the mind and hopes.
@JustOneDad - if you live in NC, the holy grail is UNC-CH. Most kids I know, even the top students, don’t consider going out of state for school, or if they do they go no further than South Carolina or Virginia.
Yeah, it really depends. In Texas, UT is tough to get into for most students. A top 7% er could call it a safety, but maybe not in all majors. At A&M the top 10% could call it a safety, but again, not all majors. We are lucky, however, in that we have other big Us which are easier to get into: Texas State, Texas Tech, and then the branches of UT and A&M.
So here it is fine to say that A state U is a safety, but not that the state flagship is a safety.
@JustOneDad - I assume you’re speaking about students who are at least a little above average stats wise? Here in PA, we’ve got three major state subsidized national universities - Pitt, Penn State, and Temple. Lots of above average students are denied admission to Penn State and Pitt each year. Every year, really good kids who bleed PSU blue and white are crushed when they don’t get in to main campus. And those kids who do get in have to be able to afford the relatively hefty price tags. Most average students can get into Temple. Above average students are more likely to be able to afford Temple as it is pretty good with merit aid.
But the true Pennsylvania state schools don’t really have a flagship. I suppose if there is one, it’s West Chester University, which doesn’t have an engineering school. And lots of good kids don’t get in to WCU either.
I know lots and lots of excellent students for whom Penn State and Pitt are easily affordable and with their stats admission would basically be guaranteed, but these kids have schools like St. Joe’s and Drexel as their safeties. Actually, around here Fordham also comes up a good bit as a safety school for excellent students. State flagships are not for everybody.
@JustOneDad, for many kids in MI, VA, and NC, UMich, UVa, and UNC are their top choice.
For some kids in TX, UT-Austin is both their top choice and safety.
The best safety for a student with high stats and/or whose family earns enough to pay a large chunk of the COA is going to be different then that of a student with average stats and/or a family who can’t pay much. I live in NY and my above average (but not stellar) stats son was accepted to several private schools with generous (full tuition) type scholarships. If we could afford $20-30k/year out of pocket he could have attended one of them but we can’t, so he’s going to graduate from a state school (with little to no debt) instead.
I see a number of states mentioned frequently. What’s happening there? Too expensive/selective for the “average” student?
Don’t those large state institutions have an obligation to serve the majority of the students? Why are they diverging from the norm, forcing students to go elsewhere?
I think, at least in NYS, that the public schools are in heavy competition with each other because they’re trying to increase their selectivity. As their selectivity goes up, the number of applications increase giving them a broader range of kids to choose from, so it’s tougher for average students to get in. I think many students start at our community colleges then transfer. Some go away for a year or two then move home and transfer to the local 4-year to finish. I don’t know if it’s the norm, but we have 4-year schools with total populations of ~5000 and community colleges with double that number.
In a state such as NC, where the flagship is extremely selective, there are a number of other good state universities students can apply to - App, Western Carolina, Eastern Carolina, UNC Asheville, UNC-Charlotte, some state HBCUs - there’s a state school for every student, just not every student can go to the flagship.
As for states where schools are expensive - in many states, state legislatures have been severely slashing funding from their university systems for years. If the money doesn’t come from taxpayer dollars, it has to come from somewhere, which means tuition may not be affordable to all students. That’s a decision made by the state legislatures, not the universities.
In NC, a very affordable option is to start at a community college - the state university system has an articulation agreement with the CCs (and a bunch of private schools are signed on as well) guaranteeing transfer of credits from a community college, and guaranteeing you will be accepted to a state university if you meet certain criteria (note, that’s not a guarantee you’ll get into Chapel Hill - they just guarantee you’ll get in somewhere).
@CaliCash what do you mean about NY in 17? We don’t even have a flagship.
“Elsewhere” may be other state universities in the same state, or starting off at community college and later transferring to a state university. I.e. the states are still serving their students in terms of postsecondary education, even if they cannot all go to the flagship.
As a practical matter, larger states probably would not find it practical to have one giant state flagship to serve all four year school students in the state. In California, that would be a campus of 500,000+ students (the combined enrollment of the UCs and CSUs). Also, a state may find it advantageous to have some campuses accessible to commuter students in most parts of the state.
I don’t see the “flagship” as having to be located in one single place. A number of smaller states have now started decentralizing like CA did long ago. To me, it’s still all the same system.
I’m talking about not being served by your state schools such that you have to go out of state for a “safety”.
I regard the 4 SUNY universities as flagships just for simplicity sake. There are arguments for each to claim the title, and for none as well.
In NY, many of the SUNYs will meet need up to tuition and fees. Room, board, transportation, books, other expenses and necessities are on you. Also, for many kids (like one of mine), the state schools did not offer enough of the traditional big school spirit school experiences. SUNYs don’t have the reputation, rankings or recognition that many of the flagship schools do. They want an OSU, UM, PSU, UMd, type of schools not a SUNY, though UBuffalo edges towards that in terms of possible experiences.
By having a lot of SUNYs, smaller ones all over the state, NY allows for a relatively affordable 4 year college degree pretty much where ever you live in state. You can commute to a local SUNY most anywhere, and can get need fulfilled up to the tuition.