Cornell CS courses are not small. There are about 400 CS graduates per year these days.
https://classes.cornell.edu/browse/roster/SP19/subject/CS shows many CS courses with large numbers of discussions attached to each lecture. However, it does not disclose size of lecture and discussions.
Some upper level courses have only lecture with no discussions. But the classrooms can give an idea of the size. For example, CS 4410 (operating systems) is in Klarman Hall KG70, shown at https://registrar.cornell.edu/spaces/klarman-hall-kg70 . CS 4700 (artificial intelligence) is in Olin Hall 155, shown at https://registrar.cornell.edu/sites/registrar/files/space_images/OLH155.jpg .
UCB class sizes in CS are large as well, since there are about 900 L&S CS + EECS graduates per year these days.
As a practical matter, the difference between âvery largeâ and âhugeâ class sizes is not significant. If you wanted small class sizes, you would have chosen a much smaller school (perhaps a LAC) where CS is not so popular that the department has to choose between making the class sizes large and keeping interested students out of them.
Business majors are large at both schools. About 350 per year at UCB, and about 200 per year (in AEM) at Cornell. Expect large class sizes at both schools.
I do not appreciate how earlier commenters assumed that I prefer Berkeley over Cornell. I do not prefer Berkeley, as can be evidenced by many of my previous comments. I was simply presenting some of my initial findings about Cornell in the first post.
Then I would suggest you attend Cornell, obviously.
If you were looking for a small private undergrad school environment, neither Cornell nor Berkeley can offer that so forget it.
For academics and prestige, both are equally good, Berkeley May have more high achievers with high stats. Itâs not some random state school.
Berkeley is cheaper, has better weather, diverse and politically active environment. It is situated in bigger town near a major airport. You are more likely to find internships and research opportunities there. You can use public transport for going home and save money.
Unless there is a strong personal preference, logical choice is Berkeley. This isnât even a tough choice.
Congratulations on two wonderful offers.
As a NYS resident whose HS sends several students each year to Cornell, whose local CC has an articulation agreement with Cornell, and who personally knows two kids who transferred there from four year SUNY schools, I feel like I know at least a little bit about Cornell. It is a wonderful schoolâŠdonât kid yourselfâŠbut you are not comparing it to some unknown state school. AndâŠgoing to Cornell will not guarantee suceess. That is up to you. I ran into an acquaintance two summers ago whose son is now graduating from CornellâŠhe could not get an internship. AgainâŠsuccess is up to you.
Berkeley is no shrinking violet and it is not your typical state school. Where I live it is much harder to gain acceptance to Berkeley than it is to Cornell. You will have large classes at both schools. As noted above, you will not receive that small, private school experience at either.
My daughter loved Cornell but chose a different school. After speaking to her friend who was there she got scared of the intensity ( whether itâs real or perceived). She needed a different type of environment.
I would sit down with your parents and decide if the cost of Cornell would be difficult to sustain for 4 years. If the answer is yes, I would choose Berkeley.
Once again congratulations on two wonderful acceptances. And for the recordâŠCornell is not the flagship school for NYS. We donât have one, but we do have a group of 4 larger SUNY universities. Cornell is not part of that group.
You would have a good number of large classes at Harvard and Stanford too, BTW, especially if you chose a popular major.
As @ucbalumnus said, if you really cared about that stuff, you should have applied to small and tiny LACs or at least much smaller universities.
BTW, you never answered my question about faculty interaction.
I had no doubts that you, OP, preferred Cornel to Berkeley, and that the issue was dollar value of the cost differential.
I think the answer to which school to pick, with that financial consideration in the picture is clear. Even die hard Cornell people here have agreed.
Iâm also telling you that even without that differential in place, there are those who have carefully looked at both choices that would prefer Berkeley or other state schools to Cornell. There is an intensity, an edge, something about the atmosphere at Cornell that does not appeal to a number of people who have the direct choice of going there or to another school without the ivy luster, the NYC connections and higher rankings on standard lists. I see it all of the time because Cornell is s staple on college lists here in my area. No question at all, that itâs a great school and that those who complete there get a fine education and a boost in terms of finding sought after jobs. I wish some of mine had given Cornell the thumbs up (as well my alma mater, but there are those preferences)
You have two excellent choices. You are sitting pretty in that either choice is wonderful and you will be the envy of many regardless which one you choose.
Yep. People tend not to be grateful for what they have and yearn for what they donât have, but look at it this way:
Through no achievement of your own, you live in CA instead of NV, and because of that, you get a discount to Cal. If you lived in NV, both Cornell and Cal would cost a huge amount for you. Granted, UNR and UNLV would probably be free or close to it, but then again, they would be to you as a CA resident as well if you had applied there.
Cal is to the left politically of Cornell. Youâll find more people who share your angst about âprivilegeâ there, so perhaps it is a better fit
No university is $160k better than CalâŠnot Stanford, not Harvard, not MIT, and not Cornell. Flawed rankings try to push the notion onto the public that Cal is a marginal top 20 university. It is not. It is an unanimous top 10 university, on par with the likes of Columbia, Cornell and Penn. Cornell will be more heavily recruited by Wall Street IBanks, just as Cal will be more heavily recruited by Silicon Valley tech companies. But that does not justify the $160k delta.
Of course, if money is not a concern whatsoever, then going for fit may make Cornell the better option. But otherwise, Cal is the way to go here.
@Alexandre I disagree because a family that does not qualify for need-based financial aid should, in my opinion, invest the extra money for their kid to go to a school like Harvard or Stanford; the kid deserves to have their spot at one of those types of schools. My original question is about CCâs general opinion on whether a family should spend the money to send their kid to a top but lower ranked private school vs. a somewhat similarly ranked state flagship (if they reside in a state such as California, Michigan or Virginia). Of course, this question is irrelevant to a family who considers the ~$160k difference to be âchump change.â
Another data point that I wanted to include is that tuition at Cornellâs contract colleges is $20k less than full sticker price for New York State residents. That is a net savings of $80k, a pretty penny, over four years that a student gets simply for having family residing in the state of New York. This data point is important for my concern about value; why should I as a California resident, who benefits from large tuition remissions at my local UCs and CSUs, pay a premium to attend a school that gives tuition remissions to its local state students that I am unable to benefit from? To me this is a conversation similar to: why pay out-of-state tuition? Although I understand that Cornell is a private school, not a state school. If the debate was between a lower ranked UC and Cornell the choice would be Cornell, but a debate between Berkeley or UCLA and Cornell has a little more meat to it (for a CA state resident). My overall question is: should I not be thinking about this scenario this way? Is Cornellâs NY State Resident tuition, cheaper than sticker price but still quite expensive compared to the in-state rates of state schools, significant in the discussion of the schoolâs value? Thank you.
@mom2twogirls You mentioned a couple of times that I seem to âprefer Berkeleyâ and I want to make the correction that I do not, I prefer Cornell. This post is about a financial decision that my family is going to make.
^ âThis post is about a financial decision that my family is going to make.â
The ROI favors Berkeley. The weather favors Berkeley.
I donât see how the state resident discount is relevant at all. Virtually all colleges charge various net prices for various reasons. Carnegie Mellon has a bagpipe scholarship. One of the Loyolas has a scholarship for Catholic students named âZolpâ (https://www.thebestcolleges.org/weird-scholarships/).
Are we trying to come up with reasons to feel better for choosing Berkeley by devaluing Cornell?
No need. They are peer schools regardless. Certainly close enough that a $160K price advantage is sufficient reason to choose one over the other.
I have 2 girls who went to Cornell (most long time CCâers would know that) and I also have 2 nephews from CA who also went to Cornell, so I have long history with Cornell.
The reason my kids chose Cornell over other schools was for its size. They did not want small LACs. They wanted the feel of âlarge public school,â but with funding/resource/flexibility of a private school. Cornell and NU fit the bill, but they didnât want to go to a school in the midwest.
Cornell gets some funding from NY state, at the same time they are not beholden to NY government on how to run the school. I think until you have worked in a government agency you really do not have any idea how much you have to adhere to governmentâs policies and âperceptionsâ to general public. As an example, most companies encourage their employees to work from home, but most of NY government employees (SUNY included) do not due to perceptions. If there are critical conferences at vacation resorts (Vegas, Miami, Scottsdale, et) you are most likely not able to go because of perception. How much one could get paid (not matter how specialized your skills are) is also capped. Their procurement process (buying new technology/equipment) is long and tedious. Cornell does not need to follow those rules because it is a private institution. They have large endowment through private donations that they could provide great resource to their students. They do not need to go through 20 layers of approval every time they want to try something new (very important for advanced technology).
Berkeley is a great school with very good reputation. If I lived in CA I would have a difficult time in sending my kids to other peer private schools. At the same time, I would consider its ongoing budget issues, diversity of its students (large percentage of Asians), resources available to its students, red tape at the school because it is public.
Even though Cornell is a large research uni, both of kidsâ majors (Math, Philosophy) were so small that each student was able to give a speech at their departmental graduation. To be expected, majors like Economics had much larger number of students. Few times when my kids had issues, from dorm room, grading, to study abroad, were quickly resolved. My emails to the school were always answered promptly. Now they are few years out of Cornell, they are still very connected to the school because many Cornellians have common experiences (slope day, Halloween parties, even prelims). Cornellians are roommates after graduation, they look out for each other at work, and refer jobs to their friends (D2 has landed 2 jobs through her friends at Cornell). Both of my nephews were able to get summer internships by contacting some alumini. My kids were in large introductory courses first year, but most of their advance classes in their majors were small. They knew their professors well. D2âs professors wrote very personal recommendations for her law school applications. One of them still get together with D2 whenever he is in town.
I do not know Berkeleyâs alumini network. I can only offer what I know of Cornell based on my kids and nephewsâ experiences.
re #51: ââŠwhy should I as a California resident, who benefits from large tuition remissions at my local UCs and CSUs, pay a premium to attend a school that gives tuition remissions to its local state students that I am unable to benefit from?â
If the situation was actually true, reasonable answers would include: if the subject programs at the school were that good; the school environment and programs seemed to fit the OP so much better; OP wanted to experience life in a different part of the country, (others)
However the stated situation is only true if the OP is admitted to one of the contract colleges at Cornell. The endowed colleges: arts & sciences, engineering, architecture, hotel- do not offer discounted tuition for New York residents.
Someplace on this thread the OP mentioned Dyson. I donât know if OP is admitted to Dyson, but if so it might be worth it, based on what Iâve read.
Depending of course on how much the money âmattersâ. If the money matters above all, then there is really nothing further to discuss.
There are tons of past Berkeley vs Cornell threads OP can check, But of them all I can refer to # 20 of this one
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/9995497#Comment_9995497
written by a poster who did BS Cornell grad school Berkeley.
Still looking for the relevant old threads but IIRC California students who attended Cornell cited that it had a more diverse student body, interesting to know âeast coastâ people who are different (somehow), they liked the exposure to a different part of the country. Among other things.
^ Cornell is a bit more diverse.
Roughly half the student body is from the Northeast.
Depends on what kind of diversity.
- State of origin: yes.
- SES: no (Cornell is much more skewed toward students from high SES backgrounds).
- Race/ethnicity: depends on what you are looking for.
âI also have an interest in computer science and technology,â
Cornell is strong for these, but Berkeley is stronger.
I donât see any reason to spend the extra $200,000 to go to Cornell. These are two great schools. If the price was the same I would see this as a hard decision but would probably go to Cornell. On the other hand I love real winters which may skew my preferences. Given how close the decision is I would be inclined to save the $200,000 for some other purpose.
