State stiffs universities, tuition goes up

<p>There are parents in our town that have moved their kids to private schools over the math curriculum issue alone. If the kids have the better teachers in the district, then they are probably fine but those teachers are doing extra work on their own time to provide a better education for their students and not all teachers are willing or able to do this workaround against a structural problem.</p>

<p>Back to the original topic:</p>

<p>[Economic</a> Scene; Market forces press state colleges to raise tuition and give financial aid; politics presses to keep tuition low. - New York Times](<a href=“Economic Scene; Market forces press state colleges to raise tuition and give financial aid; politics presses to keep tuition low. - The New York Times”>Economic Scene; Market forces press state colleges to raise tuition and give financial aid; politics presses to keep tuition low. - The New York Times)</p>

<p>The article is from 2003 but applies well today. Raising tuition makes for negative headlines but it maintains affordability to those with need.</p>

<p>As a society, we need return to pulling for the nation rather than solely ourselves. Pulling for the nation means sacrifice (taxes) to keep our college system excellent and more affordable, and improving the quality of other schools. Reforms are in order, and waste needs to be cut. Impoverishing the teaching profession so that no one with a brain will go into teaching is shortsighted and foolish (I am not a teacher). Those people will be teaching our children and grandchildren. There is an appalling lack of civic virtue and excess of “I’m all right, Jack” attitudes. If education, infrastructure, and research are included among the best things in life, then not all of the best things in life are free. As a society, we will, in a rough sense, get what we pay for in those areas. Collective sacrifice for the common good used to be considered admirable, and needs to regain its status for the country to thrive, not merely the economic elite, who have been thriving quite nicely, perhaps even fiddling, while the middle class burns. *I am definitely willing to pay more taxes to keep public universities affordable, improve public schools, and contribute the the general welfare, one of the goals listed in the Preamble to the Constitution that receives very short shrift these days.</p>

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<p>You mean that no one should go to college? Or do you really mean that “not everyone is college material”?</p>

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<p>You may not have enough life experience outside the east coast to know this, but believe it or not, there are plenty of perfectly smart and “college-deserving” people at directional and less selective state universities. They may be there because that’s all they can afford, or because they needed or chose to stay closer to home, or because that directional had a decent program in a particular area of interest. It’s more than a little snobby to act as though the people at Eastern Whatever State aren’t college material just because they aren’t uniformly elite college material.</p>

<p>Re No. 123, should you know the difference to be college material? Perhaps if “college material” is taken literally, it states a truism as phrased.</p>

<p>Not everyone is cut out for college,better phrasing ;)</p>

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<p>No.</p>

<p>The current system in vogue is to get the full-pay and OOS students to
subsidize financial aid to keep the college system affordable. This
system seems to work though full-pay students and their parents may
complain more about it.</p>

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<p>I spoke to a few homeschooling moms recently and it was obvious to me
that they were pretty worn-out but they both told me that they don’t
see that they have a choice. One of them is a college instructor in a
state university that doesn’t make much (their children wear
second-hand clothes and there is no budget for college - they either
get scholarships or they don’t go) even though they both have graduate
degrees.</p>

<p>I think that there are structural problems with schools and the
products that they put out. There are a lot of excellent schools out
there that have access to incredible resources and I don’t
particularly worry about them because they have the resources to work
around the structural issues but it’s hard to see how you fix those
problems in the average and below-average district.</p>

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<p>Our current funding approach for K12 is generally a combination of
local and state money and there is a limited supply. I have watched
in MA as the state has made quarter after quarter of cuts as revenues
have declined and watched the state raise taxes. MA is a state that
supports K12 education (funding at least) with a lot of tax dollars
but it has still had to make painful cuts.</p>

<p>At the moment, I see a lot of teachers and potential teachers applying
for scarce jobs. I do think that people with a brain do apply for
teaching positions. I have certainly met many very smart professors
that teach at state colleges and universities with impressive
backgrounds.</p>

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<p>Public Universities are affordable but they are taxing those with the
ability to pay by increasing tuition and then using the increased
tuition to fund financial aid for those that need it.</p>

<p>In the other areas, government services has a lack of credibility
which needs to be earned to garner better support. In MA, the last
three speakers of the house (most powerful position in MA government)
were convicted on corruption charges. The most recent case was Sal DiMasi
who was recently sentenced to eight years in federal prison.</p>

<p>The previous speaker, Tom Finneran, used a plea bargain to avoid jail
time for perjury and obstruction of justice charges. He also lost his
ability to practice law in MA.</p>

<p>Collective sacrifice for the common good is a nice platitude. But it
would sure help if we could be sure that the collective sacrifice was
actually used for the common good. It’s pretty easy to find examples
where it wasn’t and that results in a cynical populace.</p>

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<p>To whom much has been given, much is expected. I’m perfectly fine with my taxes being raised to support my state universities (or local K-12) and I’m thankful that I’m in a position to be full pay and if that helps support some other student who isn’t as blessed with good fortune, well yay me.</p>

<p>Those who want to pay more taxes to support K-12, state colleges, or whatever, do not need to wait for the gov’t to raise your taxes…Just take out your checkbook, fill in the amount that you’d like your tax increase to be, and send it in to the school district or state U of your choice. At least that way it won’t get ridiculously diluted thru red tape. </p>

<p>Or, just take fewer deductions on your tax return - no one is obligated to take every entitled deduction. :wink: </p>

<p>But, alas, few actually do either. </p>

<p>*The current system in vogue is to get the full-pay and OOS students to
subsidize financial aid to keep the college system affordable. This
system seems to work though full-pay students and their parents may
complain more about it. *</p>

<p>This is entirely fair since it is a luxurious choice to go outside of one’s state to go to an OOS public. I’m always amazed at the number of people who think an OOS public</p>

<p>*Public Universities are affordable but they are taxing those with the
ability to pay by increasing tuition and then using the increased
tuition to fund financial aid for those that need it.</p>

<p>*</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone is crying when a high 6 figure family is charged more for instate tuition to help subsidize aid for lower income students. The problem is that the middle/upper middle class is being hit. In Calif, if your family earns $85k, then you pay the full UC fee (tuition) rate…even if you have several kids at home, while a 2 person household (1 parent, 1 child) earning $75k gets free tuition.</p>

<p>I agree that a tax increase is what is needed. Relying on nothing but cuts is doing nothing but digging a deeper hole.</p>

<p>“I’d pay a surtax that went to fund only higher ed.”</p>

<p>Me too. Unfortunately, politicians know this. When politicians were trying to “sell” state-sponsored gambling as a new revenue source, they did it by promising that all proceeds would go to education. Three years in, they changed the law and directed all proceeds to the general fund.</p>

<p>I understand why Tea Partiers demand “no new taxes” … too many instances where good things were promised during the “why this is a good idea” period that didn’t materialize during the “money spent” phase.</p>

<p>BTW, in my state politicians are moving past “why this is a good idea” toward “we’re making the decisions and there’s not much you citizens can do about it.” Not a happy time.</p>

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<p>Another option to support state colleges and universities is to write
a check for your favorite private or university scholarship and there
are lots of people that do this.</p>

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<p>Our kids go to OOS publics. With our daughter, it’s a pure quality
issue and the cost differential is small due to a regional
agreement. With our son, distance was a factor. His OOS public is a
lot closer than our in-state public. He also started attending at 15
and was comfortable with the place.</p>

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<p>I understand that California is a high-COL state and that $85K doesn’t
really go that far but it’s hard to argue that California doesn’t
spend a lot of money on higher-education from taxes. For California,
the formula of work a little and then go to school a little may be an
alternative.</p>

<p>In my town, $85K is probably around the median household income today
and a lot of parents send their kids to college. The combination of no
state sales or income taxes and high property taxes allows parents to
save up for college by picking an inexpensive home to live in. In this
fashion, you get to pick how much you pay in taxes. Those that want to
live in nicer homes pay more in taxes - again, that seems pretty fair.</p>

<p>Are the CSUs cheaper than the UCs? Perhaps those are useful options too
for those in the $85K area.</p>

<p>Heated sidewalks are not a waste of money compared to snow removal and walkers safety!!</p>

<p>Tuition/fees at the CSU’s range from $4900 to $6500 per year, depending on the campus. A very good bargain.[2010-11</a> California State University Tuition and Fees | Fee Rates | 2011-12 Supplemental Documentation | Budget | CSU](<a href=“http://www.calstate.edu/Budget/fybudget/2011-2012/documentation/14-mandatory-fees-table.shtml]2010-11”>http://www.calstate.edu/Budget/fybudget/2011-2012/documentation/14-mandatory-fees-table.shtml)</p>

<p>For the several on here who seem to want to pay higher taxes, there is really nothing keeping you from doing so. Just send a check to your state treasury.</p>

<p>Collective sacrifice for the common good should not be viewed dismissively as a “platitude.” It once was, and should again become, the dominant and honored attitude of the nation’s best and brightest. Instead, we have the anachronism of 21st century citizens thinking of themselves as high tech cowboys responsible to no one but themselves, but the frontier is gone. For better or worse, we do live in a very large and very diverse society where we cannot just light out for the territories to set up a new society if we don’t like how things are going locally. </p>

<p>I absolutely agree that government has lost credibility and that corruption and special interests have diminished the political class. The goal however should be to resuscitate government, not bury it.</p>

<p>While every individual is free to pay taxes voluntarily, or even donate money to the government, such gestures from a few would be symbolic at best and would not solve the problems. Because of rampant cynicism, very few people could be motivated to do so. Taxes are the price of civilization, and the taxes are much lower than they used to be. I don’t believe in confiscatory taxes, but the wealthy can clearly pay more. When people talk about raising taxes, the $250k a year is middle class or less. When people talk about government and teacher salaries, then $75k is outrageous luxury.</p>

<p>Applying these beliefs to education, I view public universities in California as an incredible bargain for the wealthy, but out of reach for the poor, absent scholarships. Increasing tuition on the wealthy to subsidize the poor with academic talent seems appropriate to me, as long there is a sliding scale of relief to keep the middle class from being squeezed out. The U.C.'s are not for everyone, and the State universities are important too. Not everyone wants, needs, or is capable of taking advantage of an “elite” education (though very fine educations can certainly be had at the Cal State Universities too). This talk of not wanting my tax dollars to pay someone else’s tuition is a recipe for destroying public education when, as a society, we should be trying to improve it. The intoxicating effect of the anti-government tea being consumed reminds me of the Hogarth print of the drunken mother tossing the baby out of the window with the bathwater; fixing the problem requires care and consideration, not a Bacchanalian frenzy of anti-government tax slashing.</p>

<p>Home schooling is a terrific option for families who can afford to have one adult stay home and teach, at least until a science lab is required. There are abundant free resources on the Web, like the Khan Institute, which can teach an amazing amount of material without a class room if the parent and student are properly motivated. However, many families do not have that luxury because both parents need to work, so public schools are necessary. Because they are necessary, as a society we should try to improve them even if they will not benefit our respective families directly, not gut them. I think excellent online resources should be used in underperforming schools and students should not advance until they demonstrate mastery of each section, which they can do over and over until they master it. There are doubtless many other and better ideas for improving public education at all levels. Thoughtlessly throwing money at the problems is a bad idea, but so is greedily cutting funding because your student doesn’t need it.</p>

<p>If we do not discipline overselves financially, the world will do it for us, as was the case with Greece.</p>

<p>Big supporter of public education here. </p>

<p>But I also question the UC wisdom of, ‘build it and they will come.’ While Merced might be needed in another generation (or two), it ain’t needed now. Instead of spending hundreds of millions on new campuses, perhaps California needs to rethink the idea that a student with 3.0 gpa (in today’s grade inflated) high school NEEDS to attend a major research uni. Perhaps that student would be better off at a Cal State, where it is much less costly to educate him/her.</p>

<p>I agree with the sentiment Bluebayou, but no one with a 3.0 gets into a U.C. these days, except possibly Merced, which doubtless resulted from planning for increasing population at a time when the economy was not so bad. Now that it is built, it would probably not be a good economic decision to abandon it, though there may be smarter ways to use it as some sort of specialty campus. Moreover, the CalStates are overcrowded as well.</p>

<p>What strikes me is the enormous amount of merit aid out there for good students. All the complaining about the cost of college doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. I have a hs senior who has very good grades and scores and she is being inundated with merit offers form quite good colleges. She is not a perfect, genius student – just a kid who has been disciplined, taken her classes seriously and done her very best over the whole four years of high school. I honestly don’t think kids need to be geniuses to receive ample merit money.</p>

<p>So I really wonder at so many parents complaining that college is unaffordable. Have they parented their kids to be serious students, to be disciplined, to put academics over sports and social life? If what you want for your kid is the proverbial “free ride” then that is what you should be emphasizing to your kids.Those are the types of students most public and many private universities want to recruit and will pay to get it.</p>