State stiffs universities, tuition goes up

<p>I agree with barrons. We are eating our seed-corn. Funding for public higher education is getting squeezed out by rising costs of prisons, Medicaid, and K-12 education (which in most states is now primarily state-financed, whereas 2 or 3 decades ago it was primarily locally financed), the fastest-growing parts of state budgets (along with state employee health care and pension costs). State funding for post-secondary education is one of the few truly discretionary items in state budgets, so in lean times it’s the state colleges and universities that take the haircut. Until the Great Recession, funding for public higher education was holding pretty steady or even increasing slightly, but basically flat, which meant that state funding represented a declining share of both state budgets and public university budgets. Tuition was rising much faster than state appropriations. With the recession, many states have cut funding for higher education in absolute terms, leaving a huge gap for the public colleges and universities to make up.</p>

<p>The selective state flagships are in the best position to weather this, though not without some belt-tightening There will always be more applicants than there are seats at places like UC-Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Virginia, and UIUC. These schools generally are able to make up for cuts in state appropriations by raising tuition, and some of them are pretty far down the road to quasi-privatization. At Michigan, for example, state appropriations now make up around 7% of the university’s budget, so a 10% cut in state appropriations dings the university for 0.7% of its budget–enough to hurt a little, but hardly a crisis. (A number of ill-informed posters here wrongly assume that if it’s a public university it means the taxpayers are paying for the whole thing and the state runs it just like Department of Motor Vehicles or something; not so, many state flagships are constitutionally independent entities answerable to their own Board of Regents or Board of Trustees, who are responsible for their own budgeting and raise most of their own revenues—in Michigan’s case, 93% of revenues—from non-state sources. Michigan is also one of a number of public universities that gives far more back to the state in tuition discounts and financial aid to in-state students than it gets from the legislature in annual appropriations; not to mention the billions in economic activity and tens of millions in tax revenue it generates for the state through its own payrolls, research expenditures, spin-off business enterprises, and the multiplier effects of spending by its students, faculty, and staff, many of whom came from out-of-state and wouldn’t be spending that money in Michigan were it not for the university. The net economic benefit to the state, and the net fiscal benefit to the state government, is enormous). </p>

<p>Unfortunately, making up for diminished state appropriations means public flagship tuition tends to go up fastest during recessions, which has got to have an effect on the socioeconomic composition of the student body, driving away many of those least able to pay if the university can’t make up the difference in increased FA. </p>

<p>But the schools now in the danger zone are not the flagships but the less-selective and non-selective state schools. There, demand for seats is much more price-sensitive, so the schools’ capacity to raise tuition is much less. But they also tend to have far fewer alternative revenue sources to fall back on: little or no endowment, few big federal research grants or corporate research partnerships, little or no intellectual property licensing revenue, and so on. At those schools, state funding makes up a much larger percentage of the budget, so when the state cuts appropriations, people get laid off, programs get cut, courses get cancelled or are oversubscribed, and students are ultimately the ones who take it in the shorts because they get less for their educational dollar and find it harder to complete their degree requirements, and so on. That’s where we’re really killing ourselves: not at the elite private or at the elite public university levels. There’s a reason our top public and private universities rank so high on the league tables of world’s best, and that’s not likely to change anytime soon. But with unskilled jobs vanishing, we’re at risk of killing off the capacity of a generation of young people to get credentialed as dental hygienists, nurses, accountants, K-12 teachers, physical therapists, and in other non-elite, associate- or bachelors-degree level occupations, occupations that are expected to grow in the coming years, and where there may even be labor shortages in the years to come, while millions of unskilled non-college-educated young people sit idle, or fill up the prisons. The private colleges and universities won’t make up that shortfall. We’re shooting ourselves in the foot as a society with short-sighted budget and tax policies.</p>

<p>Perhaps many of those that attend the type of schools you mention,secondary and tertiary non selective schools are better served NOT attending college to begin with…This gets back to my point that a college degree from those type schools has become the HS diploma of a generation age…Many jobs can be filled by a HS graduate,though we’ve made it necessary to attend college…they would be better off with a trade school education,or just entering the job force…</p>

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<p>Reality is that medical care in prisons is quite poor – poor enough that California lost a lawsuit based on inadequate medical care in prisons.</p>

<p>“Want good healthcare without paying a dime…go to prison . . .”</p>

<p>Have you ever been to prison? You wold not want to go there for healthcare . . . trust me.</p>

<p>No, qdogpa, I’m sorry, we’re not going to hire people as nurses, accountants, K-12 educators with just a HS diploma or a trade school education. Those jobs don’t require a Harvard degree but they do require a bachelors or in some cases at least an associates degree. As for “just entering the job force” without anything beyond HS, good luck. There’s delivering pizzas or flipping burgers, or seasonal stoop-labor picking vegetables in the hot sun, I suppose, but if that’s what we’re condemning an entire generation to while we import all the nurses, accountants and K-12 educators from the Philippines (not a knock on the Philippines, mind you), then this country’s in for a rough ride.</p>

<p>I think people worried about student debt, shrinking support of public universities should focus on the underlying solution to all of this – getting the economy healthy and growing again. We should not all be fighting over diminishing revenues. We need the revenues to start growing. And that shouldn’t mean confiscatory taxes on the so called rich. It should mean getting a dynamic, growing economy back.</p>

<p>Everyone is NOT college material, many people attend for all the wrong reasons…There will always be those who toil at jobs you might not ever consider.</p>

<p>I find it rather amusing that often it is the people who think that teachers should take pay cuts and/or pay more towards their health insurance in order to save tax payers money are the very same people who want more tax cuts for the wealthy… the attitude that everyone should sacrifice - except ME - is not going to help this country.</p>

<p>By the sane t</p>

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<p>I agree with your fundamental point, but this is overdoing it. There are lots of jobs that do not require college degrees that are above the level of delivering, flipping, and stooping. Yes, without a degree you’re likely to make less money, on average and you’re more likely to be unemployed, and therefore we should aggressively fund public education at all levels; but there are still good jobs available that don’t require college degrees.</p>

<p>My 24-year-old nephew took a couple of classes at a CC and decided it wasn’t for him. He got a job helping install furnaces and AC units, got promoted to repairing furnaces and ACs, got promoted again to selling furnaces and ACs, and is making a very nice living. He’s not delivering, flipping, or stooping (well, when he was installing furnaces he was delivering, I suppose, and when he was repairing them he must have done some stooping). He outearns his masters degree bearing older sister.</p>

<p>I would gladly pay more taxes to (a) fund education at all levels, or (b) reduce the country’s debt. (There are also things I would not want to pay more taxes for, but to avoid turning this thread even more political than it already is, I won’t mention them.)</p>

<p>I do not support blindly throwing more money at the K-12 schools; but until we attract better people into the teaching profession, all the gimmicks and NCLBs of the world will not solve the many problems of public education; and attracting better people starts with money, lots and lots of money.</p>

<p>A person above noted that colleges such as UVa will always have enough applicants regardless of the cost. However, that cost is becoming equal to the most expensive private colleges for out of state students. This year’s tuition and fees for out of state UVa students is now $37K, and it is up to $40K for the undergrad business school. Many top out of state students are going to colleges that offer much more merit aid. While UVa does meet 100% of proven need, that cost is real burden for many upper middle income families, particularly families who live in high cost/high tax metropolitan areas.</p>

<p>qdogpa you really are a cranky old <a href=“mailto:f@rt”>f@rt</a>. Plenty of people got along fine with an 8th grade education back in the day. Why don’t you just advocate that. At least most of them would be able to finish before becoming parents! After all why the heck does a truck driver need a HS dipolma. That darn old high school dipolma used to mean something. Now it is not worth the paper it is printed on. Boot them out if they aren’t cutting it by 8th grade. Why waste taxpayer money on scum and low lives? Let them start flipping burgers in ND now! They will just end up in prison sucking up all that free health care anyway! DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING NICE TO SAY?
Isn’t this thread supposed to be about the state of IL not paying out on its own budget that they set for themselves knowing full well that the economy has been in the tank since 2008. As Gommer Pile would say SURPRISE SURPRISE SURPRISE.</p>

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<p>Barrons is right.</p>

<p>Who is going to pay for the retired on social security and medicare? We rob from our youth to pay for our elderly. We absolutely need to invest in our youth in this country.</p>

<p>We rob from our youth to pay for foreign wars where we spend billions bribing officials for the priveledge of building thier infrastructure. (I’m not opposed to building infrastructure in other countries, but let’s invest in our own kids, too.)</p>

<p>What is worth resenting are the high pensions paid to former administrators at the cost of our children’s educations. I’m not opposed to a middle class pension pay out, but the whole “game” in Illinois has become absurd.</p>

<p>If we don’t invest in the younger generation, you aren’t going to get your retirement entitlements. We leave the younger generation saddled with twice the debt, maybe more, than we ever faced, and that is before they even graduate and get a job. It’s so lacking in foresight it boggles the mind.</p>

<p>As for the tax breaks for private institutions where the administrators are making millions of dollars? Forget it. Take the taxes and redistribute (yes, I said it) to those who cannot afford even community college without hardship. Do the same with religious institutions. Both are too involved in politics to not be taxed, anyway.</p>

<p>fwiw, I send my kids to private schools, and I would really not mind if my taxes were raised in order to pay a significantly larger amount of our state university costs.</p>

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<p>Private Universities don’t have to pay property taxes - that’s a local
issue.</p>

<p>Some Private Universities get research money; for doing research. Any
university can apply for those grants. A lot of them pay slave labor
rates while providing research exposure to undergraduates.</p>

<p>Funding for public colleges and universities is at the state level.
So this is overall an apples and oranges debate.</p>

<p>The mechanism for state universities to compensate for lower state
expenditures is to increase tuition and then increase aid with some of
the tuition increase. Those that are well-off pay full-fare (ignoring
merit aid here) and their higher rates allows the schools to discount
the prices for needier students. This has been going on for some time.</p>

<p>The privates have done this for a while and now the publics are doing
it too. So higher tuition might make for a nice headline but the question
is what is the real cost vs ability to pay equation?</p>

<p>The other big push for publics is to get OOS students who really pay
through the nose.</p>

<p>Momfromkc, you have no idea to what I espouse…college is NOT for everyone,this is a fact,but people like yourself who believe a college degree is necessary to get a job are being sold a bunch of BS…Many students,not all, who attend mediocre secondary and tertiary state schools wind up with debt and a job that shouln’t require a college degree…People complain on these boards about the value vis-a-vie costs of college…But the biggest scam going is in the lousy state schools,having students think that it is their ticket to financial freedom,when in reality,it is not…AND our tax dollars are funding them…and before I catch some he// for saying that, some students actually do succeed,but it is not the norm</p>

<p>Why not spend more at the K-12 level,then the college level? I am in full support of that</p>

<p>Why not spend more at the K-12 level,then the college level?</p>

<p>Great, more waste. Do you know how much is spent per head in DC?</p>

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<p>Our district uses a particular math curriculum and every year, a
number of parents asks why we use it. The district uses it because it
best lines up with the state standardized tests. Why does it line up
best with the state standardized tests? Because the publisher got in
early on developing the state standards. So the students need to go
through that curriculum to do well on state tests.</p>

<p>Do we want our kids to receive a good education or do well on tests
developed by a private company with a financial stake in retaining
their publishing business to our school districts?</p>

<p>Our district acknowledges the issues with the curriculum so some
teachers in some schools supplement the curriculum with other
materials. Parents, of course, get annoyed that their kids aren’t in
the right classes or the right schools to get those supplements as it
is up to the teacher or department to put in that extra effort.</p>

<p>The best school district in the state (with the best local funding)
recently dumped it - they have the money and resources to do that.
The best school in the state by far on test scores, a charter science
and math school, uses their own curriculum.</p>

<p>This is an example of spending money on a program that doesn’t work
well. This district is suburban with a median household income of
about $69,000 as of 2000 and 97% white so it doesn’t have the problems
that DC has and it has pretty decent resources and the capability to
provide a good education to students but there are structural problems
that are in the way.</p>

<p>Throwing money at education doesn’t work unless it is used
effectively.</p>

<p>The money wasted on ever changing curriculum is mind boggling. It is a scheme that rivals the strangle hold College Board/ETS has on us all.</p>

<p>Our country and citizens have gone soft, fat and entitled. It will be okay if it takes a little pain and effort to own a TV and cell phone. We will survive.</p>