Flagship state university expensive for you? Calling middle class caught in middle

<p>I've been reading the NY Times article about students, college costs and debt. Our flagship university is ranked in the top 10 in many sciences, computer science, accounting and engineering. Our son is interested in physics and we nailed his admission there early in the fall. He's an excellent student and we made the deliberate choice to send him there (if he had no other choices) and not shop around for a free ride (he was a National Merit Scholar and got the usual unsolicited free\low ride offers from Oklahoma, Arizona State, etc so I know the chance was out there).</p>

<p>Along come the financial aid letter from State U a month ago and we are qualified to borrow $22,135 in Plus loans. Ds if offered $697 (our need per FASFA and their computation) subsidized Stafford loan and $1,928 unsubsidized Stafford loan. Yes, I had computed our FASFA but still it was a shock. I've asked around and apparently Flagship State U is <em>very</em> stingy with their financial aid and nobody we've talked to received help. The Guidance Counselor says this is her experience also.</p>

<p>Along come some private school acceptances followed by their financial aid letters this month. Happily, it will cost no more to send him to a private school than the flagship State U because they will meet the need with grants for the most part. </p>

<p>His younger brother coming up might be able to get into Flagship U, but not the private schools the oldest boy has been accepted to. I can see me in 3 years having the youngest at the State U and the oldest in private school and getting zilch in help from the Flagship State U. The second boy might be able to get some help from the second tier state universities and since he is not a serious student (why study if you can get a B? ;-P) we may consider these schools for him. </p>

<p>I know it is our choice to send the children to the best quality schools we can get them into, but I just wanted to vent about how much our top state university costs. I feel the FASFA amount is a fair number (altho I certainly wish it were lower) but it will be a stretch for us like it will be for many of you. We have 4 children at home and it appears Flagship U will never give any aid (you know how they are supposed to divide the family contribution among children in school.........apparently they just meet the need with opportunities to borrow money)</p>

<p>I guess I am wanting to gripe because sending the children to the state university is not the low cost option many articles advise you to do. At least not for our Flagship State University. :-( It is my theory the university doesn't have to give aid to get top students because it is located close to one of the biggest cities in the country. It is cheaper for the high-income city parents to send their children to this university. It's just not cheaper or me.
momoffive</p>

<p>Yep, for this year at least, Harvard is cheaper than UTexas for us.</p>

<p>Just a quick note, to let you know....I know.</p>

<p>Our son went to private school due to the same reason (although it was his top choice). UIUC offered him $0 in the way of assistance. Not even a student loan. They wanted him/us to pay the full tally. He went to private for the same exact amount. We are very lucky in that the private has adjusted our EFC every year though, and we now are paying less than what UIUC would have been costing us. (Our EFC has gone dramatically down due to job changes.) I would imagine that as you get more kids in school your EFC will go down as well and hopefully your state U will adjust accordingly. Good luck!</p>

<p>Edited: A "howdy" to poster above....I was in Greenville Texas 2 weeks ago. Very nice community. :)</p>

<p>I think that it is plainly shameful that state universities are not affordable to many residents of the state that are qualified to attend! I have wondered for a long time what a family with a gross income of 40,000 is to do, if the flagship costs $18,000 to attend. I guess it is expected that the student to take public transportation to a junior college for 2 years, and then transfer to the flagship 4 year college (and take out large loans for those 2 years).</p>

<p>I can tell you that my S applied to an out of state public university. When a relative of mine heard the instate and out of state costs for this university in her home state, she was embarrassed that such a school would cost so much. She added that she would not send her children to this school (at an instate tuition) b/c the graduation rate is ridiculously low. She is fortunate b/c she will be able to pay the full freight at a 4 year private college for all of her children. Most are not fortunate enough to have this option. We are in the latter category.</p>

<p>Well, consider one other poor option. You could have a less-than-wonderful state school that is cheap. Not to name any names, but...</p>

<p>momoffive - I think you'll find the calculations are different when/if you have two in college. I think it's helpful that you point this out to people, but I don't see why you're upset. It sounds to me like your s. applied to a variety of schools, weighed the results and has chosen a very nice option. I think it's a shame more people don't apply to privates, assuming they can't afford it, when in fact it may be cheaper or the same as their in-state tuition. When s. applied to colleges a couple years ago, he would have received no aid at our state university, but did receive brochures for loans that would cover total cost - not Stafford loan - and I was surprised to learn it was possible to attend college if you didn't have a cent but were willing to go into debt. Someone is willing to lend you the money. </p>

<p>Is is true that state universities are not affordable? If the FAFSA calculates that a family's EFC is greater than the cost of attendance, it shouldn't come as a surprise that no grant money is offered.</p>

<p>I think the key is to try to learn these rules ahead of time so that your child can apply to a variety of schools that would suit them (public, private, OOS public, merit schools, schools where the child's particular skill, sport, etc. will be valued).</p>

<p>Lefthandofdog, I agree with you. My son applied to both public and private schools. When comparing costs there were 3 private schools that came in costing about the same for our family as a more expensive out of state public university. We are fortunate enough to be able to pay for these schools. I do worry about students who come from poor or lower middle class incomes, b/c going into such debt is simply overwhelming.</p>

<p>We saw the same thing last year. Amherst is cheaper for us than UTx as well.</p>

<p>Unfortunately the whole "Amherst, Yale being cheaper than in-state Texas public" thing didn't work quite as well for us . Had it worked that way, we may have had a different outcome. ;) But I will tell posters that several need based schools (or primarily need based) who wanted D made themselves VERY affordable. The difference in out of pocket cash to us between Colgate and Yale , for one example, was over $14,000. :eek:</p>

<p>Well, perhaps I am worrying needlessly, but I can see a future where my younger children would qualify to be admitted to Flagship State U, but not be a competitive candidate for the top tier private schools that admitted my oldest. In many fields Flagship U would be stronger than a private school they could be admitted to. They are smart kids, but not as driven as the oldest and you know how hard it is to get admitted to Harvard, Amherst etc. Heck, my driven oldest got 6 rejections ;-P , 2 wait-lists, 3 acceptances. </p>

<p>I can see a future where Flagship U (and yes, I'm happy to have a strong state U ) would be the strongest school in many fields for the younger kids. In 7 years I could have my 18, 20 and 22 year old admitted to Flagship U. What I am hearing from guidance counselors and friends (and yes, I've glanced over the CC forum for this school) is that we might still get only loans as financial aid. </p>

<p>It just seems a bit crazy that one would have to "work the system" of private colleges\grants\ etc to afford a good school because the excellent public university is out of reach. </p>

<p>momoffive</p>

<p>MomofFive
Perhaps you should have taken a closer look(or at least a look) at the so called "free ride"options at an Honors College within a state U like ASU your S had as a NMF.You might have been pleasantly surprised and not have been contemplating loan packages right now.</p>

<p>
[Quote]
If the FAFSA calculates that a family's EFC is greater than the cost of attendance, it shouldn't come as a surprise that no grant money is offered.

[/Quote]
</p>

<p>I didn't surprise me that no grant money came sons way, I didn't expect it to. What did surprise me was that there was no incentive to keep in-state students....in-state. That even paying in-state tuiton rates was no more economical than going out-of-state in some cases. Son was acceptted at two other OOS schools, both of them were more economical as well. We were not complaining about paying our EFC, but when your what I call middle, middle class that EFC is a burden on the family budget. Just high enough to "hurt" the family, yet you can't complain, because you really do owe it. We're paying but having to eat basically "beans and rice" because of it.</p>

<p>I'm not complaining about having to pay the FASFA amount. We made the choice not to send him to the honors programs offered to National Merit Scholars. Our son has very specific career goals which can best be met by one of the top science schools. </p>

<p>I am bemused by the fact our Flagship University will be too expensive to send the younger kids because they probably will not recieve any grants. We have a friend with the same financial facts-5 children , the same income as my husband and no help from state U.</p>

<p>In 7 years when we have 3 children in college, our family contribution will be spread out among the 3. What I've learned about State U is they will probably only offer us loans.</p>

<p>Many people (my family included) would look at us and think "why don't they just send those kids to State U?" but it's probably not the cheapest way to go for us. If one of my younger children wants to major in a field that our Flagship U is top-ranked in (engineering for example), I will want to send him there. </p>

<p>Just musings that state schools aren't always a cheap way to get an excellent education.................</p>

<p>momoffive</p>

<p>1TCM, you're on the mark. The so-called flagships at times do not appear to give residents an incentive to stay in the state. My guess is that those schools believe that they are sufficiently popular enough (i.e. in demand by residents) that they don't have to offer extra incentives to lure good students. Surveys reveal that Rutgers University (New Jersey) and U of Massachusetts-Amherst are examples of this.</p>

<p>The good news is that regional and small state colleges have begun to attract high achieving students with much financial aid and thus enhance the reputations of their academic departments at the expense of the flagship campuses. Two that come to mind are The College of New Jersey and the Massachusetts College of Liberal Arts.</p>

<p>Are you working Momoffive? If you are at home full time, one of the easiest ways to fund higher education is to add a second income to your family once your kids are in school and daycare costs become manageable (or go away entirely when the kids get old enough to come home after school). </p>

<p>We know many, many families where it was decided that one parent should be at home but it negates the advantages the kids received early in life if they lose opportunities for higher education, or have to incur debt, because one parent is still home and not earning.</p>

<p>I do not know if that is your situation, but you only talked about your husband's income and so I am inferring from that that you are an at-home mom.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well, consider one other poor option. You could have a less-than-wonderful state school that is cheap. Not to name any names, but...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, this is our situation. S was offered almost 11k in scholarships to go to our (3rd or 4th tier?) state U. It's more than the total cost of tuition, room/board, books, etc. I think a couple thousand of that is only for the first year, but still. Hard to just drop that when he could go for free.
Accepted to neighboring state's flagship U with about 1k in need-based grant and offered 25k in mostly parent loans. We laughed out loud and filed that one away....
Accepted at 2 other private universities and awaiting financial award from one of them. The other offered him a total of about 65k (for 4 years) in scholarships/grants/work study, but it costs about 34k a year to attend.....so.</p>

<p>Momoffive, I hear you. We are fortunate in that our state university is very cheap, although still unaffordable if your income is $20000 per year - not unheard of in our poor state.</p>

<p>Think about this for your younger children - if their grades are good and they want to do engineering, but state uni offers no financial aid, look at other state unis from low cost states. Perhaps the overall engineering program is not as good, but niche programs can be excellent. Your child's grades may only be good enough for admission to UMich for example, but earn him in-state tuition at LSU or Auburn.</p>

<p>The kid with lower grades is more of a problem, then you have to start asking if Flagship U is the place for that kid. We have that problem with my son. His education at state flagship will be free (pre-paid). He goes to a private school now, so not having that tuition bill wil make college costs in-state a complete wash for us. However I'm not at all certain that flagship U is going to be the right environment for him, but we will be full-pay anywhere else. Also, he is just squeaking by in high school - should we shell out $30000/year on a kid who could very well flunk out, or make such low grades that he graduates still unemployable? Should he do a gap year to grow up? SHould he go to 3rd tier state U until he grows up? Go to the small public LAC that is good for the first 2 years, and has some good niche programs, but is limited for juniors and seniors vs flagship uni? What about the somewhat better in-state private LAC that is affliated with our religious denomination, and would give him a small merit scholarship for that despite his poor grades, making it about $20000 rather than $30000?</p>

<p>I hear what you are saying, and the other posters advice is good for your oldest, and valid for any of the younger kids with high stats, it is the average state kid that may be a bit of a problem. My thoughts are lower cost OOS publics; widen geographic reach, especially for a boy, some LACs will offer more merit aid than you might think to get a male from an underrepresented part of the country; and start early with each child, to develop a workable strategy for that child.</p>

<p>As I noted, in-state and transfer applications at our state universities (both flagship and second-tier) are actually dropping, despite record numbers of high schoolers graduating, and community colleges awarding AA degrees to record numbers.</p>

<p>For many of these students, it isn't a matter of "stretching" to make it work - they simply can't. Many of them come from "middle class" families (remember - the median family income is around $52k). </p>

<p>"The difference in out of pocket cash to us between Colgate and Yale , for one example, was over $14,000."</p>

<p>So $56k over four years. That beats the $47k difference highest to lowest we had, based on the same EFC, two years ago. So much for "need-based" aid. </p>

<p>We are still tremendously grateful. My d.'s school is costing us now about a third of what the state flagship u. costs - and they are paying for her year in Florence.</p>

<p>Going back to work..............yes always an option...........especially if children go to State U and increase in income won't decrease any grants because there won't be any grants. lol Right now we've decided the decrease in grants the oldest is receiving isn't worth my going back to work at this point with all the children we still have at home. I've run the numbers and we'd gain 40 net cents on the dollar for every dollar I'd earn after taxes and increase in EFC. Then there would be increased costs due to work clothes, gas, and not as much time to bargain shop and fix cheaper home cooked meals. </p>

<p>Problem with smart boy (high school freshman) with B grades is he really isn't giving any input on where he wants to go or what he wants to do. He can't think past his social life at this point, lol.</p>

<p>Cangel, I've gone thru the same thought process with our second boy. He is making B's without any work. He has no interest in doing any work. I've started grounding him from the computer if he doesn't study for tests (at home where I see it) and hopefully that will give him a kick in the seat of the pants. </p>

<p>I've really learned a lot about this whole process with our first one and it will help us develop a workable plan for the rest of them. Flagship State U may not be part of the plan.</p>

<p>momoffive</p>

<p>C'mudgeon - was it Colgate or Yale that made the better offer? (I'm wondering if a school's endowment is what enables them to sweeten offers, and Yale must have the larger endowment).</p>

<p>re: non-working spouse returning to workforce. With other children left at home, what to do in the summer becomes problematic unless one parent is a teacher</p>