Stay in the competitive private school or move to the good public high school?

Parents Forum
1

Hi CC parents,

Is it more advantageous to apply to selective colleges as a top 1% student in a good public high school, or as an upper-middle-ranking student in an extremely competitive private school? My daughter currently attends a private school where she is actively engaged in competitive extracurricular activities such as sports and art. Striving for a higher class rank would add significant stress to her plate. Staying at her current school might render her less academically competitive in comparison to her peers.

The curriculums and grading system at our assigned public high school would lead to a favorable GPA. This stands in contrast to remaining at her current school, where she would need to invest additional time in pursuing a more rigorous course load, including a higher number of AP or post-AP honors classes, to elevate her GPA. She aims to improve her grade/ranking, but achieving that might lead to a decrease in her sports participation and performance or in the worst case, require her to give up her sports activities. ( She is aiming solely for the enjoyment of playing sports, or art work and is not pursuing athletic recruitment.)

Thanks.

2

Is she happy at her current school? Then I would leave her there. I would never advise changing schools for a competitive admissions advantage. Colleges are aware of the differences between schools.

15 Likes
3

She seems happy there. While she is content with her school, she is concerned that she comes across as less competitive compared to her friends who dedicate extensive hours to studying. Her circle of friends is focused on gaining admission to the same limited number of selective colleges.

4

If she is happy at her current school I would keep her there. I would not switch schools for the reasons you noted. I agree colleges understand differences between schools.

There will be strong students at the public school as well, applying to ā€œtopā€ schools.

6 Likes
5

This is a bigger issue and it depends what you mean by competitive.

Some privates may have a pipeline and maybe a top 30% goes to a top school. Your school will have stats based on who goes where - whereas you can be a stud at a public and for a U of Texas that goes by rank - that helps.

You can be a stud anywhere and get turned down. My daughterā€™s valedictorian with a 36 ACT, 4.0/4.6 or so (with 10 or 11 APs) was 0 for 16 in the top 20 and only got NYU full pay and attends UTK.

I look at the schools from the top privates here in Nashville - and I see some kids going to Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee while others go to Harvard and Princeton.

Personally - I think it comes to finances and fit. If you need the money - i.e. the private school is draining you or will impact future ability to pay for college, then a change might be needed. Many kids get into expensive schools but choose less selective because theyā€™re typically less expensive - and many today have Honors Colleges to help close that gap with the ā€œelite.ā€.

If the student is thriving at the private school, with all their friends and everything else and you can afford it, why would you change? You could move to the public, have a disastrous experience and not get the result you intend because itā€™s not as simple as - I do ok at a private so Iā€™d kick butt in public. The student would need to make friends, class sizes are different, methods of teaching are different. btw - sheā€™d probably make friends with the top kids - and guess what, theyā€™ll also be aiming for top schools. Yes, itā€™s peer pressure and it stinks but itā€™s what they have to adjust to.

Where, in my opinion, your error is - is applying to select colleges - not applying but making that the must have if you will.

You can apply to them - and there are no guarantees. And guess what, what if your child doesnā€™t get into what you call a selective college - can be from either. Or what if your child is not interested in that college - both mine got into very selective schools and yet both are at safeties, by choice.

And hereā€™s the other thing - everyone thinks - if I go to a selective school, I have it made. And if I donā€™t, I donā€™t or it will be tough. And many kids choose a safety over the selective admit anyway - hereā€™s two examples - mine:

In the end, the student matters more than the school (IMHO). Kid 1 chose Alabama over Purdue for engineering so he could have his own room. He interned with Ga Tech kids and returned a second year. They werenā€™t invited back. He had 5 offers and 20 interviews in the Fall and is working with kids from Purdue and other great selective schools like Michigan and Case Western.

Student two chose College of Charleston over select schools such as Washington & Lee. Sheā€™s in Intā€™ Studies/Poli Sci. Interned for the state this summer. Is doing the DC semester in the fall and is interning for a top think tank. Had now 7 offers overall including the WH yesterday.

There are no assurances no matter what you do. But selective or elite does not necessarily mean a great outcome. And it takes more than just great grades and test scores.

Thereā€™s also no assurance that you have success at an elite (we know of plenty who donā€™t) or that you canā€™t have success at a non elite - we know plenty who do and my kids will add to that list.

Iā€™ve been looking at Cornellā€™s career board - and itā€™s really fantastic - very clear and transparent. I wish all published like them. Whether engineering or other majors - guess how kids are finding jobs - internet boards (presumably indeed) + linkedin. Yes, they have job fairs and some are getting from professor leads or on campus interviews - but few relative to are finding them on internet sites. Itā€™s a new world today.

Grad school in the mix? Harvard Law is represented by 174ā€¦from Cal State Northridge to Oakland U to Fairleigh Dickinson to Auburn to LSU to Montclair State to Central Florida to Mizzou to - you get the picture.

I say all this because I hate for you to make a decision based on something that has no assurance and even if you get the collegiate result you hope for, thereā€™s still no assurances. In the end, I truly believe itā€™s about the kid - a stud, who hustles, will be that no matter where they go and one who doesnā€™t hustle will struggle.

There are reasons to make the move you want to make - but assuming your current situation is affordable and the student is happy and receiving a great education, it seems that the risks far outweigh the rewards - because if the student is a ā€œwinnerā€ - then whether they go to Connecticut College instead of Cornell, or Delaware instead of Dartmouth, theyā€™re going to be just fine. If the student is happy, why take that away from them?

Sorry for the ramble - but I have strong views (right or wrong) on this one.

Best of luck.

4 Likes
6

Does the private school have a dedicated college counseling staff that is knowledgeable enough (through history at the school and connections) to advise high achieving students on which ā€œreachā€ colleges are more likely to see each individual student as a fit from the collegeā€™s point of view? Elite private schools with such college counseling staffs may have better placement in highly selective colleges due to directing students to more probable ā€œreachā€ colleges, rather than seeing all of them cluster applications to the same few ones.

However, if the private school does not have this type of dedicated college counseling staff so that application choices are basically a free-for-all, then it lacks that advantage.

But also consider whether paying private school tuition will reduce the amount of money available for college. Many students are more limited in their choice of college by cost constraints than by their admission credentials.

5 Likes
7

This is such a complicated issue. Looking only through the lens of competitive college admissions, I suspect you may be right about the difference between public and private, though of course it varies depending upon the characteristics of the individual schools (certain privates being well-known feeders to certain colleges). If the same amount of effort and time investment will make your child (a) the 11th-strongest applicant to Elite School X from the private school, or (b) one of the top applicants (maybe the top applicant) from the local public school, I would give a slight admissions advantage to the public option. Selective schools are seeking diversity along every possible axis, and adding a new school to the admissions mix may be more appealing than adding yet another matriculant from a school that already will be well-represented in their class.

However, setting aside admissions, I would also guess that your child may be receiving a qualitatively better education at the private school. This too varies a lot, and of course there are many public schools providing a great education around the country. But speaking as an alum of a small private day school who is observing his kids at a large, well-respected suburban public (and knows many parents in both public and private schools locally), I can see that the kids in private school are getting more out of their education on balance. Instruction is generally more thorough, workloads are greater, and expectations are higher. I know that I was asked to undertake assignments and projects by 9th grade that my kids will never encounter until college, and Iā€™m hearing similar things from private school families that we know. I cringe a little when D22 - an honors graduate - doesnā€™t understand references to extremely famous historical events that were never covered, or says things like, ā€œMy college professor wants me to write a ā€˜researchā€™ paper - how would I go about doing that?ā€ And again, the public school is considered pretty good; families are choosing to move into this increasingly-expensive area partly because of the schools. I donā€™t fault the public school, which has the very difficult task of educating an incredibly diverse population is that is largely not bound for selective colleges. Iā€™m just saying that a private school education may have lasting benefits that outweigh college admissions issues. Sorry for the long rant.

7 Likes
8

The latest Chetty study indicates that you should definitely stick with the private school.

image
image828Ɨ932 82.3 KB

1 Like
9

This would only elevate her WEIGHTED GPA.

But not necessarily higher class rank (which seems to be your concern).
At many public high schools the top students (and their parents) will seek to maximize AP and honors classes to propell class rank just the same!?

So - Iā€™m not certain that the proposed change will actually deliver the results you are hoping for.

3 Likes
10

The only reasons to change are (a) if sheā€™s under a toxic level of stress due to competition at the private school, (b) if sheā€™s simply unhappy there, or (c) if you will have trouble financing her college education (and perhaps grad school if you want to contribute to that) after paying for private school.

Otherwise, thereā€™s absolutely no guarantee that sheā€™ll rise to the tippy top of the rankings in public school, and thereā€™s no guarantee it will be easier. Definitely no guarantee that it will change or improve her college prospects. Changing will cost her relationships with teachers that develop gradually over time, her social circles, her place in extracurricular clubs and school-based activities, and her sense of community. And if the community at the private school is unhealthy or cutthroat, maybe thatā€™s a good thing! But if not, thereā€™s no reason to try to game the system by switching (and it probably wonā€™t have the outcomes you think it will ā€“ public school or private school, sheā€™s still the same kid).

10 Likes
11

I would not change schools simply because of college admissions, and overall, I would not change unless there were a compelling reason to do so.

If you were about to start and were choosing one, I would say you should pick the one thatā€™s going to let her be the best possible version of herself. That isnā€™t class rank. It could be where sheā€™ll get challenged, feel confident, make good friends, have time for what matters. Not every school is the best option for every kid.

Colleges know as well that mid pack kids at demanding, rigorous private schools are very able students. Donā€™t worry about rank.

11 Likes
12

This is my feeling also. I would only change if at least one of the following is true: (i) The current school is too stressful; (ii) The current school is too expensive; (iii) She does not like her current school; (iv) Something important is wrong that I forgot to consider.

If she likes her current school, and if she is doing well, and if you can afford it, then I do not see any reason to change. If she really wants to change, then I think that is okay also.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, university admissions seems to be quite good at compensating for the difference in academic rigor at different schools. I have seen examples both in comparing high schools for the purpose of undergraduate admissions, and for comparing different universities for the purpose of admissions to graduate programs. My limited experience does include admissions to some rather competitive programs (for family members and for friends/fellow students and for me).

Or to put this another way: Look for a good fit. If you have found it, then the student should just do their best and have faith that it will work out.

One issue with a competitive private high school is that many students will be aiming at highly ranked universities. This can put pressure on a student who might feel they need to do the same. In fact there are hundreds of universities that are very good where a student will get a strong education and find good research or internship opportunities.

And I agree with the point about saving some money for university. In some cases saving some college money for graduate school might also be helpful.

Also, at the local public high school where we live there is a lot of competition and quite a bit of stress among the stronger students. This is not limited to private high schools.

5 Likes
13

Yep

2 Likes
14

2nd or 3rd decile in top private school vs top 1% at a public? The admissions bump seen in private schools is largely due to legacy and full pay status. Do either of these apply to your daughter?

15

I hear you, OP.

This game is played quite a bit at the private school my kids attended, specifically in regard to gaining admission at our very competitive state flagship. I have known more than a few families over the years who have returned to their public school junior year because the class rank of their kid would be higher there for the college application season. Additionally, the publics offer many more AP classes and their requirements to get into the AP classes are to just sign up (at our private, kids have to test into the APā€™s because there are a limited number of seats - many qualified kids get booted from the APā€™s because they donā€™t score high enough on the test). Additionally at some public high schools, having to take the AP test is optional, so kids can use the APā€™s to pad their application, without having to sit for the test.

While I donā€™t think the strategy necessarily works for Ivies or T20 private colleges, I do think it works for our state flagship, as they look for the top 5-10% academically, and pride themselves on being fair with pulling from all the high schools in our state. This means that someone in the top 10% from a lower performing HS may not be on the same academic level as a top 10% from a highly ranked HS but they are both still admitted. Again, Iā€™m talking about public Uā€™s and in their defense, they are expected to serve the entire state and not just the super-high achievers from the urban areas. Of course, if their local public is also highly ranked then itā€™s harder to rise to the top.

So yes, in my area of the state, itā€™s a game some people play. FWIW - I also see a lot of people playing the same game for sports recruiting - hopping around to HS with better recruiting outcomes.

It would not be worth doing, in my opinion, unless at least one of the issues that DadTwoGirls pointed out below is true. Itā€™s only four years of their lives and this tactic (which is not a guarantee, btw) always seemed overly extreme to me.

4 Likes
16

This has long been the conventional wisdom, and of course itā€™s true that the private schools may have proportionally greater numbers of full pay, legacy, and URM students, but the Chetty study I linked to above controlled for all these factors and still showed a large boost for private school students and a significant penalty for students at elite publics in the 12 largest US metropolitan areas. I donā€™t recall whether the full paper offers a theory as to what might be the cause.

2 Likes
17

Disagree. The bump is due to the fact that ā€œtopā€ privates screen for ā€œtopā€ students-- students scoring very high on standardized tests, with some level of extracurricular achievement already, and high gpas. Their student body is comprised of to 5% or top 10% of students, whereas public schools donā€™t have that filtering function.

4 Likes
18

The elite public high schools that have competitive admissions do.

1 Like
19

The post I replied to was not talking about competitive admission public schools though.

20

To the OP. Is your private or public a feeder school to said T20 schools?

But your family is going about it the wrong way. My son went to a highly competitive top ranked national public at the time he was there. They are feeders to certain schools like Northwestern and University of Chicago, University of Illinois Champaign . Doesnā€™t mean everyone gets accepted there. The student is judged by the school they are at and the students that go there.

There is a real possibility that regardless of high school she goes to that she wonā€™t get accepted to any T20 schools. Please reread this sentence.

She needs safeties and schools she is a fit for besides the name of the school. Many of the T20 schools are vastly different from each other culture /fit wise size of school etc. When I hear that someone wants to go to The T20 I realize they havenā€™t really did their due diligence and research the schools. Itā€™s just some ego thing these kids get sucked intoā€¦

Start with the best school for your daughter. Not the name of the school. There are hundreds if not more schools that arenā€™t in the top 20 that might be a better choice for her.

Keep in mind T20 for what? Depending on her major T20 might not be the best option.

4 Likes