OP hasn’t posted but that doesn’t mean they haven’t been back to the thread.
However, the dialogue and concepts being discussed have broad applicability to many CC families. It’s a healthy and mature thread.
I agree with the other folks and with @happy1 observation which leads me to believe the dialogue isn’t going in the direction the OP intended.
Those co-signed loans are truly like signing a deal with the devil himself. Those loans will stay with you till death do BOTH of you part. No out whites ever. With PLUS, if parent Or student died, loan is forgiven. If parent becomes disabled and finances are such that they are deemed unable to pay, loans forgiven. All sorts of alternatives to repay.
Not so with the co-signed loans. If one of you has an issue , they simply go after the other. It’s on both credit reports I don’t know what the interest rate is i. Those loans, but there had better be a true advantage over PLUS to take them.
I was just talking to a young woman who took a large number of these co-signed loans with her father who encouraged, insisted on her taking them. He would pay the bulk of them; she would pay a small portion. He died last year, and now it’s all on her. 27!years old and she owes $200k+ in student loans. What she took on her own, the standard Direct Loans with interest, and then what Dad co-signed and said he’d take care 90% of the face amount.
I agree that this looks like a case where OP can pay, but it’s gonna hurt.
Maybe the OP is reading the responses without logging in?
I think this parent was hoping one of us would give them a way to somehow get many thousands of dollars more in aid over year for this student. That’s just not going to happen. They might get a couple thousand more but not $20,000 more.
They have a hard decision to make…but like others, I suspect the decision has already been made. Maybe the two parents will not only defer retirement but will also get second part time jobs to help kid two when the time comes. I sure hope so.
I would put pressure on your son to apply for outside scholarships.
That’s what my parents have been doing. Also been told by many friends already in college, that once accepted you should negotiate with the FA office. If they truly want your son (which they do, after all, they admitted him ED!), they will find a way. Inquire about work-study too. A family friend of mine paid his entire Penn State tuition through doing research in a lab. I would also ask your son to get a job (my parents are forcing me to get one over the summer), and make sure it is the highest paying. I am political motivated so I am eyeing up a campaign job (specifically Michael Bloomberg, who I am not fully supportive of, but he pays his staff $18/hr which will cover a lot of college debt).
I also would mention it is too late for your son to apply to any schools at this point, since most high school counselors have passed their deadlines for submitting application material and it is too late for your son to write new essays for other schools.
If you truly want your son to go to Duke, then let him. If you knew it was going to be too financially burdening, you shouldn’t have allowed ED. ED is notoriously risky for financial aid
It is not to late for the OP’s son to submit RD applications. As long as his part if the app is submitted on time, schools for the most part will accept counselor and teacher recs later. As far as essays go, I’m pretty sure a student that got accepted to Duke ED can crank out some essays in a week.
@blondeboynj where are you getting your information.
Lots…lots of kids at my kids’ high school were writing essays and completing applications during the Christmas vacation. It’s not uncommon.
Coming up with an extra $30,000 a year isn’t an easy task.
I don’t get the sense cost is a deal breaker for the OP; otherwise the focus would be more practical rather than on the fairness issue. Giving up some hobbies and working a few extra years is what many families do to make college work, and that sounds like an option here. It’s just a question of whether OP wants to do that. Given that a one time income boost is what confused the FA issue though, I think it’s worth getting in touch with the FA office to explain the situation. I’d be prepared to give a summary of 2019 income to illustrate the point. Not saying that this’ll be a 30k difference, but a slight adjustment in the first year along with the realistic—though not guaranteed—expectation of more FA in subsequent years might make the total gap more manageable.
The gap will grow. Yes duke will be less but the additional school added in will greatly increase the shortfall. Also, OP is at or near retirement. No guarantee that work continues for 8 more years.
Long post, but many misconceptions here. I’m not sure all posters remember (or read?) the initial situation and are responding to that. OP has some but not all funds. And a 2nd child to pay for. Money doesn’t grow on trees. What you paid for college 25+ years ago and totals, interest, etc, were freaking different.
When his friends pointed out he hadn’t included all income/assets in the NPC, he could have said to kiddo, “Houston, we have a problem.” instead, he based “affordability” on, in effect, bogus numbers, a 40-48k family cost. He’s still got that second child. And no extra 30k+, per year.
Face it, most outside scholarships are a few thousand. If that. You generally borrow parent plus loans year by year. Borrow 30k now and next year, you show that debt plus fewer working years left. Will you qualify?. It’s possible but not something to assume will “just” work out. The higher the numbers, the more fraught with risks.
The following year, you’re already 60 k in debt.
30k in PP loans (year 1) is paying back about $300/month, every month, starting late winter of freshman year. OP isn’t telling us he has an extra 300 now.
120k for the 4 years will mean about 1200/month. Interest alone will add about 50k–money I’d guess he’d like for retirement.
You think, oh, but engineers can make big bucks… the son can pay. What? Use 96k or 8k/mo,. 6 k after taxes. Less after your 401, transportation, rent, food, clothing social life, maybe wanting to get married, buy a home. You want to lock in to 1400/mo for ten years?
The above is partly based on repay calculators, things like rates can change. But I hope it gives idea of the risks.
Has the OP even committed or are we taking among ourselves?
So OP would need more powerful sorts of belt tightening. Cut out the major discretionary expenses. You want dinners out, pricey cars, camps, vacations, (whatever was cited,) and/or every extra dollar into retirement or… you want Duke? Keep retesting numbers, see what it takes to get to 30k plus. Can you live like that, do you want to, all for this college?
Meanwhile, knowing child 2 is in the queue. Saving for him. Saving for a crisis. You might need to stop retirement contributions for 4 years, then for child. 2’s funds.
It starts to get ridiculous.
Why is Duke his dream school? Is it because of sports? Or is there something that only Duke will only have compared to other schools? $305K for an undergraduate is not worth it.
Let’s not also forget that the OP implied the change from $48K to $70K was possibly a one-time event. That means that if the family’s financial situation reverts to normal next year, the final three years might cost the family $45K/yr instead of the $70K estimate for the first year.
Maybe the OP will not make extra money from the side work available to him in 2018?
If that holds true, if the family is certain its income will settle back to the lower pre-2018 amount, that would be a known factor. And if the family feels comfortable paying the approximately $45K/yr, then maybe it won’t be such a hardship for this particular family. When the OP complained of a possible $300K bill, maybe he miscalculated by assuming the $70K was going to be for 4 years for his family when in fact his financial situation might revert back to 2017 status and the actual bill might be $70K + $45K + $45K + $45K.
Or maybe the extra money will continue. I’m not certain if the OP made a mistake when he himself complained about a possible $300K 4-year bill for himself, or if he was complaining about the cost of elite college cost in general.
I don’t know, just guessing until/if the OP returns. A lot of the comments here have been very useful in a general sense.
We eat out, go on vacations, paid for camps, and put catch up money into our retirement accounts. I’m not sure that added up to $40,000 a year while our kids were in college.
Only a portion of those extra earnings was used to calculate the EFC. If it’s $30,000 more than what they thought…they had way more than $30,000 in additional income.
In addition, did the OP liquidate that investment or does he still have it? And does he plan to not do catch up on retirement for at least four years (probably more since there is a second kid in the queue for college)?
And no vacations, eating out, or anything else extra until the second kid graduates from college? Really? Just so this kid can go to Duke for a perceived STEM advantage over other colleges?
And yes, I do think we are talking to ourselves here. The OP has left the room. But maybe this will help someone else in the future who does a net price calculator with inaccurate low numbers and then is shocked at the actual net cost that comes with an ED acceptance.
I’m interested in hearing from OP what happened when he went back to Duke for more aid. When we went back, they were very nice and asked us if anything in our financials had changed since we filed our paperwork. Nothing had changed, it was just my D’s favorite school and we were really hoping to make it affordable. We didn’t need as much as OP needed, but they pretty much laughed at us and said that if nothing has changed then they can’t do anything for us. Wouldn’t even take a look.
I wish OP the best but I don’t see any way to get the price down. I feel for his younger child.
Our reality is we had to tighten our belts a bit. Using 529 money the last 2 years and paying out of income the first 2. Kids took some loans the first 2 years since we didn’t know… The unknown is scary. We are hopefully paying them down now. We had to stop contributions to our retirement fund with 2 in college and running a business. But slowly starting back now. One of the things we did right, I guess, was to pay ourselves first. We front loaded our retirement account when our kids were little. Started a 529 when they were 6. Wish we did it when they were born. So not contributing into our retirement for the last few years is OK since the main bulk is there.
Would I put my life on hold for one kids dream school with another one coming up… No and as stated had to tell my daughter she couldn’t go to hers. It really broke our hearts but the money tree only makes so much and I am “not”, unless an emergency, touching the retirement funds.
Her number 2 school worked out just fine. I think you have to give your kids more credit. Unless a spoiled brat they should appreciate that they have the privilege of going to college.
What we told our daughter was if she went to Emerson, we would have no money to give her for anything else . Lots of East Coast kids come from money. She would have to work for all her extra money (which both kids do now anyway… Their choice).
If she went to another affordable choice we would have the luxury to paying off her schooling. Being debt free after college. Helping with study abroad money etc. We actually started her a small retirement account with some of the extra funds. Fun watching that grow.
Many of her friends were not so fortunate. They are working odd jobs to pay off loans while interviewing and trying to make ends meet. Didn’t want that for my kids. They will be as close to debt free as we can get them. I started my life with huge debt since I didn’t have a choice in the matter. They do.
WIth provided aid and another kid comin up, OP can either afford it or he/she can’t. If “can’t”, of course borrowing the gap is an option, not one I would do but that’s a personal decision.
OP, get really clear on what’s important to you. There’s no right answer. Everyone has different issues, situations, goals, etc. Some will change their circumstances (work v retirement, lifestyle). Others won’t. Doesn’t make either of them good or bad. Everyone is just trying to do the best they can.
This isn’t solving your problem but I would just suggest CLARITY. Get really clear and make a decision.
But this isn’t like when my kids applied, no NPC at that point and only looking back one year. He now knows not only 2017 but 2018 (during which he did add hours- and bear in mind, we have zero idea what these added dollars are.) Plus, he can have a darned good look at 2019. He can re-“forward project,” run the NPC again, in various scenarios.
For the forward years, he won’t have the specific forumula the college will use then or changes to college COA, but it’s a way to play with the numbers. Do the “What Ifs?” If he takes the 2018 numbers and the NPC drops, then he knows more. And so on.
Your fin guy needs to understand what counts vs what does not. It means you need to stay on top of it. Our fin advisors are all about IRS reqirements, with very little understanding of how and where college fin aid treats various categories differently. Eg, what’s tax deductible to the IRS may not be to fin aid folks. First time I asked for the value of our “retirement,” to enter it, that’s what I got, the entire value. But only non-QRP is assessed. Good example why you need to scrutinize for any errors. Yours or theirs.
Yes, thumper, we also “enjoyed” life, but not to the tune of $40k, not for us. But OP is describing (seems to me) a situation where he IS tapped out, there is no more “squeeze,” per the way he’s managing his monies. What I suggested is, he needs to examine whether there is, in fact some give he hasn’t recognized. Down to what cars, at what costs, what costs of vacations, other options. (We all know one CC family’s needed “time together” is the $10+ (or more) cruise or full blown Disney week, adventures through foreign countries or multiple weeks with foreign family, etc, while others spend far less and achieve the same together time.)
OP also mentioned, “hobbies to develop for the sunset period.” Gotta wonder how much those cost.
We don’t know if this increased income was a one time event… IMO it’s not clear. He talks about some untaxed income but he also talks about spending over $300,000 when he was prepared to spend under $200. He has not returned to clear things up.
This person says he already lives a frugal lifestyle so my guess is that they are not spending $30,000 a year on vacations… or else his idea of frugal is quite different than mine.
The OP has not returned. My guess is that his kid will be heading to Duke. Hopefully there is no resentment when his younger one applies.