Sticky sitch - US child, foreign NC parent, refuses aid

Paying for College
1

<p>Hi all.</p>

<p>I used to live abroad with a foreign spouse until a few years ago. We (me and the kids) moved back to the States and our divorce agreement stipulates that the NC parent (the foreign father) does not have to support the kids in any way unless they are physically with him in that country. So, this is hard for my daughter who will be graduating HS in 2012 and is looking at colleges.</p>

<p>Any idea how this will work out for us with financial aid? The divorce agreement is clear, albeit in a foreign language that can be translated. No money unless the kids are physically present.</p>

<p>Of course, we will be making an appointment with the financial aid officer, but I'm curious how this might play out and want to prepare DD for what might happen.</p>

<p>Thanks for any ideas and input</p>

2

<p>If your children apply to colleges and universities that do not require NCP financial information, this won’t be a problem. The FAFSA will only require your information. All of the institutions that require the CSS Profile are listed at the CollegeBoard website, and a quick phone call to the financial aid offices of the ones that are interesting to your children will let you know whether they require the NCP forms. Even if they do, given that the NCP is out of the country and there is a specific court order about child support, some of the ones that normally require NCP forms may waive that requirement in your case.</p>

<p>Do you know what your FAFSA EFC is likely to be? Can you pay at least that much? If you can’t, your children need to be looking for institutions that cost less than your FAFSA EFC and/or that will offer them merit-based scholarships that will bring the cost down to what you can afford. For lots of useful information on this topic, see [FinAid</a>! Financial Aid, College Scholarships and Student Loans](<a href=“http://www.finaid.org%5DFinAid”>http://www.finaid.org)</p>

<p>Good luck with everything!</p>

3

<p>Colleges that require NCP info, do NOT care what a divorce agreement says. They expect the NCP to provide financial info and to provide financial support.</p>

<p>Since you know he won’t pay (and probably won’t provide info)…Your strategy will likely involve:</p>

<p>1) Apply to a few schools that require NCP info…but request an NCP waiver (these are very iffy to get, so you can’t expect to get one.)</p>

<p>2) Apply to a few school that give large aid, but do not require NCP info (there’s not a lot of these schools, but there are some.)</p>

<p>3) Apply to a few schools where your child’s stats will get large merit scholarships. These could be your financial safety schools.</p>

<p>4) Apply to a local public as a another financial safety school.</p>

<p>Much will depend on your D’s stats. What are they?</p>

<p>Also, based on YOUR income alone, do you know what your EFC will be? Since it sounds like you are the sole support for your kids, it may be hard for you to pay your EFC. Use an online EFC calculator to determine your likely EFC.</p>

<p>FA Calc<br>
[FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Expected Family Contribution (EFC) Calculator - Finaid) </p>

<p>Keep in mind:</p>

<p>1) most schools do not meet need. Most will expect you to pay MORE than your EFC.</p>

<p>2) EFC is a misnomer. It is not the most you have to pay. It’s just a number to determine if you qualify for any federal aid (which isn’t much).</p>

<p>3) Most out of state publics do NOT give much need based aid, so you can’t expect much help from them to cover their high OOS costs.</p>

<p>4) HOWEVER…SOME out of state publics WILL give large merit scholarships for high stats to out of state students.</p>

<p>Of course, we will be making an appointment with the financial aid officer,</p>

<p>Not sure what this means, unless your child will only be applying to one school. Each school might handle the situation differently.</p>

<p>You really need a well thought out strategy before your child does all the work that goes into applications. It would be awful for her to spend all this time and end up with no affordable options…or no options that she likes.</p>

4

<p>Thanks for the help so far, it’s been great advice.</p>

<p>We are in NYS and DD’s #1 choice is Cornell, which is the reason for the financial aid officer appointment. After that, we are primarily looking at state schools. Not really any out of state schools, mostly for financial reasons. DD is a pretty average student but she is a wonderful artist and attends a fine arts high school. She may not get any merit-based financial aid, but her diversity might make the difference during admissions.</p>

<p>I think a good strategy is the way to go. And mom2collecgekids, you are exactly right. I don’t want to set her up for disappointment so I’m exploring all of our options a little early.</p>

5

<p>Since you live in NY, you need to find out if your income would qualify for any NY state aid in addition to any federal aid you might qualify for.</p>

<p>She may not get any merit-based financial aid, but her diversity might make the difference during admissions.</p>

<p>What is her diversity? Is she a minority? If so, which one?</p>

<p>Also…there are some universities that do give scholarships for portfolios…so keep that in mind. Avoid art schools…they don’t usually give much aid.</p>

6

<p>Her diversity lies in the fact that she spent most of her childhood in a foreign country, so while not a “minority” she is still a bit different from most other suburban high school NYS students, ergo, her “diversity” might make her an interesting candidate.</p>

<p>As I mentioned, she will be applying to Cornell and SUNY colleges, so, no art schools, as a matter of fact. </p>

<p>Thanks for your help</p>

7

<p>

</p>

<p>Cornell requires the CSS profile and the non-custodial profile. It does not matter what the divorce decree states, if your ex does not file the non-custodial profile, your daughter will not get aid from Cornell. Your situation and the terms of your divorce (that dad does not have to support child unless they are in Italy) will not qualify you for a non-custodial waiver.</p>

<p>Your daughters background and the fact that she has lived in another country will not add to the “diversity” of the college and will not give her any advantages as far as college admissions are concerned.</p>

8

<p>just wanted to carry over my response to one of your other threads since you will most likely come back to check this one.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>On her NY transcript, it varies by school. Some schools will put the grade from the other school on the transcript while others will do credit/no credit. When she applies to college, she will have to send her transcript from the school she attends senior year as well as a translated version of her transcript in Italy. </p>

<p>Make sure that you have a sealed official copy for her file so that when she applies to college her high school in NY will be able to send a certified copy of her Italian transcript.</p>

<p>In NYC we evaluate foreign transcripts</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.ocmboces.org/tfiles/folde...TEXT%20(2).pdf[/url]”>http://www.ocmboces.org/tfiles/folde...TEXT%20(2).pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Since she will be coming to school in NYS for the first time as a senior, the principal can waive the Global History and Science Regents requirement (however, she is still responsible for the course work in order to graduate). She will still have to sit for the NYS regents exam in English, Mathematics and US history. Depending on the course work she has taken in Italy, she may not have all of the credits required to get a diploma in NYS.</p>

9

<p>You can also talk to the school guidance counselor and when the time comes, the personel at the colleges to which she is considering and request a NCP waiver. These are issued on a case by case basis. If the parent is incommunicado and not supporting the child for some years, you may be able to get the waiver for some schools. Bear in mind the waiver is on a school to school basis–you can’t just get one and have it apply to all colleges. </p>

<p>My oldest switched school in the middle of high school, and the transcripts each had to come from the original school. My neighbor whose daugter was switched senior year, did as Sybbie suggested and had sealed transcripts and references from previous school to send.</p>

10

<p>A lot depends on what kind of resources (income/assets) you have and that the non-custodial parent has. I worked with a girl this past admissions cycle who is in a similar situation --U.S. citizen (actually she has dual-citizen status) and a non-custodial parent in Europe, where she was mostly raised. Her aid awards were all over the map. Nothing from the state university, but wildly divergent awards from private colleges. She applied to more than 15 schools.</p>

<p>She had to fill out her NCP’s form because he doesn’t speak English. It was an interesting process! I was on the phone with her explaining what the questions were asking (like a lot of kids the financial questions were confusing to her), she simultaneously had him on Skype, and we worked through the form together with her translating back and forth between me and him. Gotta love modern technology!</p>

<p>Anyway, he also was not going to contribute, but did have to complete the NCP form so her FA application was complete. When all was said and done, some schools seemed to expect a large contribution from him, others not so much. It’s very hard to predict.</p>

11

<p>If she’s looking at Cornell, would she consider Aggie? That’s also a NYS school and could be more affordable.</p>

12

<p>As a NYS resident who is interested in art, HUMEC might be a decent option for her at Cornell. Have her take a look at what is offered in [Department</a> of Design and Environmental Analysis](<a href=“http://www.human.cornell.edu/dea/index.cfm]Department”>http://www.human.cornell.edu/dea/index.cfm) and [Fiber</a> Science & Apparel Design](<a href=“http://www.human.cornell.edu/fsad/index.cfm]Fiber”>http://www.human.cornell.edu/fsad/index.cfm)</p>

13

<p>Hopefully some of the New Yorkers here can recommend which SUNYs are…</p>

<p>a. Best for art</p>

<p>b. Might give merit for a great porfolio.</p>

<p>What are her stats? You may think they’re average, but they may be high enough for merit at some schools.</p>

<p>And, Sybbie is right…having lived in a foreign country doesn’t add to diversity. Schools want diversity that allows them to declare higher numbers of various ethnic groups to make themselves look more diverse.</p>

<p>Cornell is unlikely because it doesn’t sound like her stats are high enough…and it doesn’t sound like her NCP will co-operate and pay. </p>

<p>(And…good heavens…what country doesn’t require child support unless the child is with the parent in that country? How awful…a dad can leave his wife/kids and not support his kids???)</p>

14

<p>I agree it isn’t a “diversity” hook, but it is interesting as a piece of the whole picture of the applicant. The girl I worked with, mentioned above, used her European upbringing/American roots very effectively in her essays. She was a strong student (but not tip-top) and she has other talents that she brings to the table, but I don’t think her unique upbringing counted for nothing.</p>

<p>She was accepted to McGill, Oberlin, Rice, Duke, Tufts, Princeton, UCLA, UC Berkeley… I can’t even remember them all. The only place she wasn’t accepted was Yale, and she applied to soooo many schools. She had a high 3.8-something GPA, no AP classes, a couple lower division level college classes, and a 2100-ish SAT. Not chopped liver, but not a slam dunk for those schools either. She is a talented musician, but not national level or anything like that.</p>

<p>So, I think there were many interesting things about her, but her Euro/American background was certainly one of them, and she leveraged it (and her multi-lingual-ism) well in her essays.</p>

15

<p>OP in another post wrote</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Based on this Cornell, even the land grant schools (where tuition is less expensive for NYS residents) is going to be a huge reach for her. </p>

<p>The fact that she signed a divorce decree stating that dad does not have to support his children unless they live in Italy, will not give the OP a financial waiver. In most states in the country child support ends at 18 and there are very few states that require non-custodial parents to pay for college. Even in married in-tact parents are not required to pay to put their children through college.</p>

<p>Looks as if OP already knows what SUNYs would be good choices for a student interested in the Arts. Now she will just have to see what schools match up with her daughter’s stats. She should also add FIT/Parsons/ Pratt and SVA to her list (if she plans on being in NYS/NYC).</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/Pdf/2011_Admissions_qf_stateop.pdf[/url]”>http://www.suny.edu/student/downloads/Pdf/2011_Admissions_qf_stateop.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

16

<p>*Geneseo, New Paltz, Purchase, Cortland, … however, being an artistic gal, she has not done particularly well in other aspects of school.</p>

<p>Kind of middle of the road, so I’m a little concerned about her chances at Geneseo. We both like New Paltz because of its proximity to New York without actually being in NY (for all the art and culture it can offer). My daughter is a sophomore so still has time, *</p>

<p>well, it sounds like she has some time to bring up her grades. According to that other thread, she’ll spend one more year in Italy, and then come here for senior year. </p>

<p>I can understand the OP’s concern about solely majoring in art. Perhaps her D can double major …art and XXXX…in order to make herself more marketable after she graduates from college.</p>

<p>I used to live abroad with a foreign spouse until a few years ago. We (me and the kids) moved back to the States and our divorce agreement stipulates that the NC parent (the foreign father) does not have to support the kids in any way unless they are physically with him in that country.</p>

<p>I’m confused…is the child living in Italy with her dad?</p>

17

<p>The other thread posts are from a few years ago when the D was still a sophomore. it sounds like she is now a rising senior who will be attending her senior year of HS at a NYS HS.</p>

<p>On the past threads mom indicates that she is interested in the arts and theatre. Mom also indicated that she is a Cornell alum.</p>

18

<p>If Op’s daughter is already here, if she came to the NYS high school for the first time as a junior she can get an exemption from the Global regents. </p>

<p>Op also needs to remember that the state has recently eliminated the January regents. This means she will most likely sit for the regents in June. Anything she does not successfully pass will have to be retaken either in august or next June (not recommended).</p>

<p>The advice that I am giving all of my rising seniors is to make sure that they have all of their regents requirements met by June. This is also the last administration of the foreign language regents (for advanced regents diplomas).</p>

<p>OP should definitely meet with the GC to make sure that her daughter will fulfill all of her requirements so that she can graduate next year; the science requirement (1 year of regents based life sciences with labs and 1 year of regents based physical sciences with labs). </p>

<p>While she may be eligible for an exemption from the global regents exam, she will still need the course work (2 years global, 1 year us, 1 term govt, 1 term economics).</p>

<p>This year New Paltz was asking for both the math regents in integrated algebra along with the math regents in AL2/trig.</p>

19

<p>I believe the D is coming to the US for her senior year, not her junior year. Mom posted that her D was a sophomore 5/10 (on another thread).</p>

<p>she also said on another thread – “My daughter is a student at an arts high school in Italy (in Venice) and expects to transfer to a public school in the US for her senior year. This means that her first language is not English, she will not take any SATs or ACTs until her senior year, and even then, may have difficulty with them being ESL.”</p>

<p>It sounds like D has been in Italy for school up trough junior year, and will be attending school in US this year as a senior.</p>

20

<p>This could really pose a problem with student graduating from high school on time in June 2012. As I stated in my previous post, if she comes to high school in NYS as a senior, she can have the science and global regents requirements waived . However, she will still need the course work. </p>

<p>In addition, she will need to minimally take and pass the NYS regents exams in English, US history and Mathematics. There are no longer any mid-year regents exams. The Regents that she will have to pass are given approximately a week before graduation, which is really cutting things close. Some colleges are now requiring multiple math regents for admissions purposes.</p>