After visiting campus and talking to current students, it seems the students often walk on eggshells, worried about causing “micro aggressions” towards each other.
How can open dialog and true learning occur in this kind of intellectual north korea?
Sounds like Williams isn’t for you. Lots of other places to choose, fortunately. Good luck!
Wow no hyperbole here @-)
Anyway I live near Williams and I’ve talked to a current teacher (also an alum) and one of my friends who applied. I know that’s a fairly small data pool, but both of these people thought Williams was more conservative than other comparable LACs. That being said you have infinitely many other options that are less like ‘North Korea’ 
Hi sb, thanks very much for the feedback and data points.
Not looking for ‘conservative’ schools per se, as such could and often do have the same myopia. For example, BYU and UC Santa Cruz, at opposite ends of a political spectrum, appear to have this kind of myopia as well.
Rather, looking for complete intellectual freedom where it is possible to have a healthy discourse with sincerely-held voices from all angles, including unfashionable ones. …Without the healthy tension of a competing idea erupting into enforced hands-on-ears, cult-like shunning, or even threats.
It would be good if, as you say, Williams is less like an intellectual north korea than other liberal arts colleges, but I think that the college that holds itself out as perhaps the finest liberal arts college in the country could hold itself to a higher intellectual standard.
Hi m100, tread carefully, I might call a ‘micro aggression’ foul on your passive aggressive implication that perhaps I don’t belong in the group. [no worries: written in jest with a smile.]
Kidding aside, the question asked is broader than whether Williams is right for a particular individual. The straight-forward question is:
Does the walking-on-eggshell factor at Williams become a hindrance for Anyone striving to openly discuss and explore all angles of the big questions?
One could ask the same of many schools, but I am asking it of the school that many believe is perhaps the finest liberal arts colleges in the country.
This is a real open question. The clock is ticking and we have less than 24 hours to decide.
I consider myself a conservative republican and only wish to add that I noticed Williams does not have a college republican group, but instead has only a college democrat group.
Hi ELW! Just my own two cents on the issue:
I commonly play devil’s advocate among my friends with pretty much everything, from religion to politics to morality. While there are some people who will not enjoy this type of probing discourse, I have definitely found that a majority of people here are at least open to entertaining ideas different from what they accept as comfortable. You won’t become the most beloved person at school by this route, but then again, would someone who did that be universally loved at any institution?
It can be difficult to express socially conservative viewpoints on campus, but everyone should (and hopefully will) respect your right to express those opinions. People generally try to stay as respectful as possible, though, so I have learned to control my word choice better than I had before.
In essence, Williams is not exactly a bastion of conservative thought, but you will absolutely be able to express your views in a polite and reasoned manner without threat or fear of social ostracizing.
Students have been raised to be offended by anything they do not like and find a way to call just about anything a microaggression, racist, sexist or hate speech.
The question that you implicitly raise is: “Is there even a college or university, except for the conservative ones like Hillsdale, where “unfashionable” ideas can even be expressed without entailing an investigation into the person by admin?” Not sure such campus exists in total. I am sure there are pockets of this on every campus among friends, but as a part of general discourse and atmosphere, I kind of doubt what you want actually exists anymore.
Friends do not count, as they are friends and have other bonds that override disagreements. The operative question is: "Can someone who does not know you or socialize with you entertain an idea that is foreign to his without erupting into fits if it is antithetical to his positions?"The answer here seems to be increasingly “No.”
If such an open culture did still exist on campuses as a matter of course, then Mayor Bloomberg would not be giving this speech:
Just the existence of a safe space from an idea you do not like says it all. Seriously, these kids have issues that will limit what they do in life in ways they have not a clue.
I’m missing how this is like Stockholm Syndrome, since there’s no kidnapping going on at Williams. Just willing, paying customers.
@ELW, From the mouth of a Williams student:
I took it to mean kidnapped by the political correctness culture and taking on those attributes.
Just to circle back on this, ended up declining Williams.
Due to Williams’ strong reputation, really tried to get comfortable with it. But in the end, could not get past its intellectual north korea or cowardly stance toward unfashionable views. Somewhere along the line, its leaders have forgotten the lesson that the best antidote to wrong thinking is sunlight, not hands over eyes.
Sure, other colleges have this problem too, but we had higher expectations of a school that holds itself out as perhaps the finest liberal arts college in the country.
So where are you taking your “sunlight”, @ELW?
I’m sure that somehow, some way, Williams will find a way to survive without your presence on campus.
Meanwhile, Williams just hired as a professor a former Republican Congressman from upstate New York. Too bad you’ll miss the opportunity to learn from him. And the former Republican Governor of Massachusetts regularly teaches a Winter Study class. Not to mention multiple conservative speakers coming to campus each year, and a wide array of very prominent conservative alumni (including Mike Needham, who runs Heritage Action).
I also note that a year or so back Jonah Goldberg (a pretty inflammatory speaker and author of the book “Liberal Fascism,” sounds like just the sort of hyberbole you would enjoy, actually) had this to say about his time speaking at Williams. Especially considering he is someone who is predisposed to be skeptical of a liberal enivronment, this hardly sounds like “North Korea” to me:
The room was pretty much full, which was good given the terrible date and time of the speech (5:00 P.M. on Spring Fling night) but better than that, there was a much higher proportion of liberal college kids than I often get of late (when not debating a liberal). For instance, when I recently went to Boulder — a far more left-wing school than Williams — I had very few actual students, never mind left-wing students there. I go to a lot of campuses, but the administrations are usually loath to promote the event and professors often tell their students outright not to attend, so as to avoid the, you know, uncomfortable learning. I gather the administration at Williams isn’t much help to the Uncomfortable Learning kids, but somehow the group got liberal kids to come and endure all the discomfort. Aside from the eye rolls, intellectually insecure giggles and smug knowing looks a few gave each other from time to time, they were admirably polite and engaged, even during the Q&A. I even got a few laughs out of them (“Yeah, but then they all yelled ‘Put your pants back on!’” — The Couch).
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376580/america-eats-itself-jonah-goldberg
But, yeah, Williams didn’t want one dude speaking on campus, appearing with almost no notice and funded by a mysterious group of alumni, who was fired by the National Review for being too racist and who advises parents to tell their white children to avoid all black people. So, sure, North Korea …
Heh well done, @Ephman
Still not sure what this thread is about.
Just look at the story relating to Suzanne Venker…that should tell you all you need to know about liberal “tolerance” at Williams. <:-P
Yea, I looked up Suzanne Venker and the episode that took place with the Uncomfortable Learning speaker series last year. This was a student-run activity (and still exists in some form, as I understand it.) What makes it difficult for my boomer era brain to wrap itself around what happened is that the events seem to have taken place entirely on the internet. No one was picketed; no one was shouted down. It’s not even clear how many uniquely identifiable people were involved. I suspect the UL student sponsors were simply unhinged by a barrage of cryptic, psychotropic, babble coming at them from person or persons unknown (not unlike someone who comes upon a discussion board where terms like, “Stockholm Syndrome” are being thrown around without any point of reference.) It also came at a bad time for Williams because it just so happened that the rest of the country was also suffering from the same pattern of breakdown around issues of race, gender, trigger warnings and safe spaces. At my own alma mater, the student newspaper was threatened with closure (before cooler heads prevailed.)
I have to give Williams a pass on this one. It’s just too bizarre and too out of character for it to be chalked up to anything but youthful inexperience. I also can’t help but notice that the adminstration kept out of it which some people may or may not agree was a good thing. I happen to think it’s better when these things can be handled by the students on their own, perhaps with teachable moments to come later.
The students “handled” it by completing denigrating and berating the student (Zach Wood, who coordinated UL events) on social media. You can’t blame the college administration for this one, but the student body definitely showed their colors in regards to their tolerance of freedom of speech/differing viewpoints/ etc. that they simply don’t want to hear (or, I guess, were just too “uncomfortable” with ).
It’s cute that you think your school is exempt from immature students, @AmherstClass2020 , but you’ve only been there for a month or so. Give it time 