Stop Me From Jumping The Gun!

Pizzagirl · July 3, 2009, 2:47am

For those of you who are into Myers-Briggs -- my profile includes a J (which means I like closure) and let me tell you, I have a bad habit of jumping the gun on things. I'm the kind who packs for a business trip a few days early and then it gets cancelled, where my procrastinating partner didn't waste that time. I have rising hs juniors and I'm already at the "shouldn't they have their list ready" stage, LOL. I have to be careful that I don't have them make moves too early, if that makes sense.

We are fortunate enough to be full pay so I could see it being a distinct possibility that they apply ED. (Which would, of course, appease my Myers-Briiggs J like no one's business). So, of course, I start backing it all up and pretty soon I'm panicked that they haven't already taken their SAT's!

So, for rising hs juniors who might potentially be ED'ing a year from this fall,
what are realistic timetables for taking ACT's, SAT's, and AP's so that they'd have their portfolio ready? (They are taking the PSAT this fall per mailings we just got from school) And what are realistic timetables for making general visits to colleges to get an idea of what they want, and then "real" visits?

Thanks in advance!

IloveLA · July 3, 2009, 3:06am

I’m up late, so take this for what it’s worth.
The PSAT is taken fall of junior year. (some sophs take it early for practice).
AP tests are given in the spring (May). At our school, it was the student’s responsibility to sign up for the test, so don’t miss the signups.
Try to get an SAT and/or ACT under your belt junior year.
SAT subject tests are usually taken May or June of junior year.
Visit some schools this summer at least to see what colleges are like (big, small, urban, rurual).
My daughter needed her wisdom teeth out junior year-- which used up one of our school vacations.
In short, don’t wait for senior year.

_rentof2 · July 3, 2009, 4:54am

You’re not jumping the gun. (From one J to another.)

My son applied ED (even with high financial need), and it indeed was a comfort to my J. ;)

Yeah… If I recall he took one SAT II in his sophomore year (World History)

Then he took:

the PSAT fall of junior year
SAT in May of junior year
AP US Hist. May of junior year
SAT II (Math2) June of junior year
SAT (2nd time) in Oct. of senior year
SAT II (Lit) in Dec. of senior year

Now, he didn’t take a lot of AP classes (only 1 junior year and 1 senior year, and he didn’t bother with the AP test in senior year because it wouldn’t have done him any good at the college he’s in), so he wasn’t as swamped with tests in the spring of his junior year as many kids are. That helped.

He only needed two SAT IIs for the college to which he applied ED, but tacked that third one on in Dec. of his senior year because one of his top choices in RD wanted that third test. The test date was a couple weeks before he got his ED acceptance, so it was just insurance to take that extra SAT II.

He was, happily, accepted ED to his dream school… but he and I both did a lot of advance planning to make everything time out optimally for him in terms of being properly prepared for the tests, and to be able to keep his grades high and his beloved ECs going full-tilt.

So, you go! Being a good planner helps keep the whole process more relaxed, in my opinion.

oldfort · July 3, 2009, 6:41am

D1 took 2 SAT II sophmore year, SAT I in March of junior year, took it again in June, then 2 SAT II in June, 2 or 3 APs in May. She was all done with her testings by Junior year. She visited schools junior year and early senior year. We didn’t visit that many schools.

D2 is a raising sophmore. The only thing I would do differently is to have her take SAT I in Jan and Mar of junior year, focus on other tests in June.

marite · July 3, 2009, 7:27am

Pizzagirl:
The PSAT is generally in October. Many counsel to take the SAT right away since it will involve one prep, others advise to wait for further prepping. It would depend on how confident your Jrs. felt they did on the PSAT, but the actual results won’t be known for a while.
As for SAT-Subjects, it depends on what schools you think they should apply to. The number of schools that require them is fairly limited, so it’s worth thinking about a tentative list. Ordinarily, it is best to take those SATS at the end of the year in which the subject has been studied, which means they should be taken at the end of the junior year. This means the same year as the APs. It makes for a somewhat heavy testing schedule. But, especially if applying ED, it would be best to have all the testing done by the end of junior year.

Visits: Take advantage of school vacations to visit. You can do some visiting this summer, then do real visits during the school vacations when the colleges will be in session and their own students (not summer school students from other colleges or high schoolers) will be there.

compmom · July 3, 2009, 8:02am

The school sent you a mailing on the PSAT, and will do the same for SAT’s I would assume. Our school isn’t that organized, but they do announce these things to the kids. At least in our town, parents don’t really even get involved in the timing of the SAT’s that our kids take. Just go with the PSAT in the fall, SAT sometime in the spring, and let the school tell your kids. Try to let your kids register and “own” the process a little.

We never even had the AP tests reported to the schools (and these were very good schools), I don’t think. I’m not even sure. They don’t affect admission that much, I don’t think. In our school, the only consequence with AP’s is that students don’t get the “weighted” AP grade if they don’t take the AP tests, so it affects graduating GPA, which goes to the colleges in the final transcript, but that is after admission (for most AP’s). Some colleges do let students take more advanced courses by getting exemptions from the intros, but even at a top Ivy school many kids opt to still start with the intro courses, so as to start off in a more low stress manner (and most likely to get better grades).

With all 3 of our kids, in Feb. of junior year, we did an introductory visit to 3 schools in the same area of our state, that are very different: small versus big, state U. versus small LAC, artsy/alternative versus academic/conventional etc. We let the choices this visit presented sort of settle, and then visited one or two in April, and maybe 3 in the summer.

By the early fall of senior year, things were getting serious, and we looked at whatever schools remained, or went in for a closer look by spending more time and maybe the student attending classes.

We kept choices down to 4-5.

They did their applications in stages with the first stage maybe in October, but essays and other time-consuming parts of the application were done a week before the deadline.

I think it is good not to let this whole process permeate their lives too much. Some of these contacts w/schools motivate kids who are not as motivated, but too much focus on the future can rob the present a little. I also think it is good to give the kids maximum control, stepping in only as needed. Kids vary in what they tolerate or need, but we can follow their lead, not our own.

I know you are feeling that it will be less anxiety-producing to be early on everything, but you should follow that only if your kids feel the same way. Emotional comfort for parents needs to be less important than autonomy for the kids. It is hard, and I sympathize, but just a note of caution.

My son was showing little interest and was treating me like a nag. I told him that it was fine with me if he worked for a year, that if he did some research and figured out where and when he would like to visit, I would see if it fit in my schedule (and I don’t really have much of a schedule, unlike you). I came back to the house and he had made a list and color coded it, and had looked into visiting several. He just graduated from an Ivy and is working in CA. so it all worked out.

I would try to relax while you still can!

HarrietMWelsch · July 3, 2009, 9:00am

Two of mine have done ED now. Though they attended different high schools, they both followed much the same general schedule, getting two subject tests done by the end of sophomore year, and taking the SAT I at the earliest sitting in the winter of junior year (I honestly don’t remember now - January? I know we had snow and worried about closings, in both cases - but it’s the earliest one). They felt that allowed more time for a junior year retake, if it had been necessary, that wouldn’t get in the way of another subject test in June plus AP tests in May. Both were completely done with testing (except for senior APs) by the end of junior year.

The second one got all of the “big/little/city/country” informational visits taken care of by tagging along on the first one’s college visits. If I can remember back that far, I think we didn’t worry too much about preliminary visits with the first one, because she played a lot of sports tournaments at various campuses and had a rough idea of what would work for her (size and location wise) already. Her schedule was also complicated by her sports schedules. Somehow or other we had all of her first visits done before the end of September of her senior year. She did some follow-up overnights in October, and that was that. S1’s schedule was less of an issue; he, too, was done with overnights by October.

So far, so good (very much so for D and S1, and not bad for my inner J).

Mine are both Js, too. As 3togo points out below, that definitely matters.

3togo · July 3, 2009, 9:05am

3togo alos known as an ISTP

My biggest concern is about info that was not in your original post … do you kids share your “Jness” or did you get one of us “Ps”. I do not think there is a right or wrong timetable however different timetables work for different individuals. If your kids are all about planning ahead and doing things ASAP all the better … if they procrastinate and like to figure things out as they go along then I’d be careful about imposing your “Jness” on them; to me that will only lead to a lot of unnessesary tension in your house.

nngmm · July 3, 2009, 9:17am

Our kids took SAT, ACT and SAT subject tests in Feb/March/April, with a thought that this will leave them an option of one retake junior year (May/ June) if needed. Having all the testing over with junior year was very helpful.

It would make sense to wait with the subject tests till May/June if your kids are taking the corresponding subjects junior year.

If they do not want to study for the subject tests, and are good at math, Math 2 + Lit are the ones that will require minimal (if any) prep.

pierre0913 · July 3, 2009, 9:27am

I applied early action to all of my schools that had that policy and applied by November 1st to all my rolling schools. Here’s what I did

Sophomore/Junior Year: PSAT
March Junior Year: SAT
June Junior Year: SAT II’s (US History, Math II, Physics)
Senior Year Fall (1st possible dates): SAT and ACT (wanted to try the ACT since I did poorly on the SAT and ended up doing really good on the ACT)
November 15th: all applications sent!

Pizzagirl · July 3, 2009, 9:41am

This is all very helpful. I especially like the point about my imposing my “J-ness” on them.

momreads · July 3, 2009, 10:06am

My son applied early action (rolling at one school) and regular decision. Here was his timetable:

Freshman year – took the SAT, because this was the first year the newest version was offered and he just wanted to see it. Even went on a couple of college visits – just to show him what a school looked like.

Sophomore year – took the SAT again (the colleges usually do not look at the ones from his freshman and sophomore years); took the SAT II in biology and Math II; also took the PSAT in the fall as practice; took 3 AP tests. Did a few more college visits.

Junior year – took the SAT for real, as he put it; took the PSAT and SAT II in chemistry and U.S. history, took 4 AP tests.

Senior year – filled out applications for college and scholarships, did one college visit (to the school that he will attend this fall), worked a part-time job, went to two proms, took 6 AP tests.

BTW, this was his schedule. He came up with it. We went along for the ride. He never felt any pressure. He had a great four years, and now, he shares his experiences with some of his younger friends, hoping that they can grasp some idea of planning for the future.

pierre0913 · July 3, 2009, 10:10am

my dad made me take the SAT in 8th grade. Here were my scores then:

Critical Reading - 460
Math - 570
Writing - 430

In 11th Grade:

Critical Reading: 650
Math: 780
Writing: 580

So it’s true, take the SAT twice and there will be an improvement the 2nd time
haha just kidding

goaliedad · July 3, 2009, 10:26am

Don’t mean to set off the “I’m behind” alarm, but goaliegirl’s college tours started at the beginning of her sophomore year. Now granted, it was a convenient kill of time while in Boston, but it definitely started her thinking about what was more important in a school. And as we know, students live on a campus not in the virtual world of CC rankings

It also helped that goaliegirl was very motivated to look at the schools in question, but even with that she came out with clear preferences among the schools visited.

My recommendation to you is that if there is a period of August before your HS start date that you can visit college campuses while they are in full swing. It also helps to demystify much of the misunderstanding that kids have about college life.

I don’t know how much your kids are on board with your “J” personality (or perhaps they react by dragging their feet asserting their independence, UGH!), but you probably want to select schools based upon their interests, perhaps with a nearby contrasting school of your choice thrown in to make things interesting.

Point is that the kid has to kiss a few toads along with the princes to truly firm up their college view. And who knows, one of those toads may end up being prince charming.

I know that with goaliegirl, she was initially dead set against small schools, especially in small towns. This came from being a bit bored with her small boarding school in a small town. However, having spent some time on some small schools and the environs nearby, she has been able to discover that yes, there is life to be lived even at these schools. In fact, with here current school list (she is a rising senior), the greater majority of her candidate schools are small schools.

We have done a few campus tours since then and have some more coming up soon and I have come to find that goaliegirl has some filters that I wouldn’t have guessed at before. She has an eclectic taste in architecture, but there are some schools that definitely leave her cold. So now she want to see schools in person before applying.

I think once you have a few successful tours, your rising juniors will be looking for more opportunities to check out more schools.

So use your “J-ness” carefully and you can inspire.

vicariousparent · July 3, 2009, 10:52am

Pizzagirl: Your intriguing reference to “J” made me take an online personality test - and I also have a “J”!

I don’t know if your kids need to have lists yet, but YOU should - and probably do :)

You are fine with the timetable, just try to finish all testing by June of Junior year. I would plan on taking the PSAT, the SAT1 in fall and again in the Spring. If SAT2’s are needed then take those too, probably leave the June date for the SAT2’s. One tip- the March date only offers the SAT1, no SAT2’s are given, so try to take the SAT1 on that date. Another tip- not all SAT2’s are given on all dates- foreign language with listening is offered only in Nov, and World History and Latin only in Dec-June (check the collegeboard website for most current info).

For the lists, wait until at least December, preferably after reviewing the results of the PSAT and the first SAT. Set aside a week (spring break?) for college tours. By this time next year you will be in pretty good shape.

teenage_cliche · July 3, 2009, 11:12am

I would agree with trying to have testing done by the end of junior year. I’d say PSAT in October, SAT in December/January with retest in March if necessary, and then SAT IIs in May/June. I also agree with looking at the list seriously starting in March or so, doing college trips during February and/or spring breaks. By the end of junior year, I’d say, you should have a better idea of how reachy/matchy/safety your current list is as well as have a better grasp on the whole rural or urban?, big or small? sort of thing.

marite · July 3, 2009, 11:13am

I’d suggest doing some college tours now to set some parameters: location? social scene? size? sports? then reserving junior spring for more serious looks at colleges that made the list. Also, consider that schedules can be wrecked by weather or other emergencies, so it’s best to plan ahead and do as much now as you can (I have never taken a personality test but I suspect I am in the worry wart category).

Marian · July 3, 2009, 11:24am

Rising juniors? As in plural? Wow!

It’s not too early to be thinking about the college selection process – and even doing a little preparation.

I would suggest that you ask each student to work with you (and with a couple of college selection books and the Internet) to come up with a longish list of colleges that they might possibly, conceivably want to apply to. This is for two purposes:

1) Once the lists are made, you and your students can visit the colleges’ Web sites and find out what each school requires or recommends in terms of SAT Subject Tests;

2) You can see whether the lists include appropriate safety schools, and if they don’t, you can work with the student to come up with some ideas for safety schools.

SAT Subject Tests are usually taken during 11th grade – or earlier. Now is the time to plan for them, if you haven’t already done so.

As for other tests, juniors routinely take the PSAT in the fall. In my opinion, any student who is considering applying to college ED should also get the SAT and all Subject Tests (and the ACT, if the student chooses to take it) out of the way during 11th grade. A student can’t make an informed choice about what schools to apply to until all the test scores are in hand, and anyone who is considering applying ED has to make that choice by the end of the summer after junior year. (Yes, the application deadlines are several months later than that, but you will find that the deadlines set by your high school for requesting transcripts and counselor recommendations and by teachers for preparing recommendation letters are much earlier than the colleges’ deadlines.)

In my experience, many students would like to have the opportunity to take the SAT twice. Often, they are disappointed with at least one of the scores they obtained the first time around. And most students who need to take SAT Subject Tests at all will take at least some of them at the end of 11th grade. Therefore, it would make sense for a student who might apply to college ED to register for one of the SAT test dates in the winter. This allows the opportunity for the student to take the SAT a second time, if desired, in either May or June (reserving the other end-of-year test date for SAT Subject Tests). If the student has extracurricular activities that might conflict with any of the SAT test dates (such as a spring sport), it may be necessary to take some tests earlier than this.

Do not assume this. Students usually register for the PSAT through their high schools, but they must register for the SAT, SAT Subject Tests, and ACT on their own. It can all be done online, at [::</a> College Planning Made Easy | Inside Source for College Admissions Requirements](<a href=“http://www.collegeboard.com%5D::”>http://www.collegeboard.com) and [ACT</a>, Inc. : A Student Site for ACT Test Takers](<a href=“The ACT Test for Students | ACT”>http://www.actstudent.org/)

Students take AP tests in May of the year when they take the AP course. There is no flexibility here. Usually, students do not register for these tests on their own. They do so through their schools, which hand out the paperwork mid-year.

I think that this summer is not too early for some college visits. It’s not ideal to visit a campus during the summer because regular classes are not in session, but nevertheless, some important information can be gleaned from a summer visit. Additional visits can be done during spring break of junior year or perhaps by taking a day or two off from classes at some other time during junior year. If your high school closes for any Jewish holidays or teacher conventions or other such things during the fall, that might provide another opportunity for a college visit.

Personal opinion: I don’t think students need to visit every college they apply to before they apply. But they definitely should visit any school they’re considering applying to ED, and they should visit their safety schools. They may also want to visit schools they’re uncertain about applying to because the visit might help them make their decision.

If you will allow me to inject a another personal opinion here: Even though your circumstances allow for the use of ED, I wouldn’t push it on a student who doesn’t want to make a commitment that early or who has any reservations about attending the college in question. In fact, I would discourage it under such circumstances. For example, at one point, my daughter considered applying to Columbia, but she had reservations about its Core Curriculum. If she had wanted to apply to Columbia ED, I would have argued very strongly against it because of the possibility that if she was admitted, she might regret the decision.

I don’t object to ED in general – in fact, my daughter did apply ED, just not to Columbia. But ED isn’t the best choice for everyone – even for those for whom financial aid is not a consideration.

Students who apply ED should have their FULL list of colleges finalized by the beginning of senior year. This is because of teacher recommendations. A student applying ED will need to approach teachers about recommendations at the very beginning of senior year. Both of the teachers who agreed to write recommendations for my daughter required her to give them all of the paperwork for ALL of the colleges she was applying to a month before the first submission deadline. This meant that she had to have her entire list finalized in September. I understand that this is not unusual.

Pizzagirl · July 3, 2009, 12:49pm

Yes, twins (boy/girl). And no, they are not sharing my enthusiasm for this process :-). 
We are planning to do a tour of some local colleges, including our state flagship, just to acquaint them with the idea of colleges in different locales, urban/rural, etc. and what appeals to them. They know Northwestern’s campus well and they’ve seen Tulane, but nothing else.

I need to figure out the key to giving them the reins instead of me as I recognize that’s best long-term, but the J in me gets all scared :-).

jym626 · July 3, 2009, 1:03pm

Hi pizzagirl,

I never thought I would have recommended this, but it turned out to be a great thing for my s, so here goes:

He prepped for the Oct PSAT (b/c based on earlier practice tests he was hopefully close to making NM.) It was recommended that he go ahead and take the Nov. SAT since he’d have been primed, having prepped for the PSAT. I initially thought it would have been better to wait 'til spring of jr yr rather than taking it in the fall at the beginning of jr yr, only for the extra exposure to the English/vocab/writing stuff (the math on the SAT was already covered in classwork-- the jr yr math he took was not on the SAT). Anyway, it turned out to be a great plan. He did well enough on the fall SAT that even though he signed up for the retake in spring, he decided not to bother, and used that time to review for his APs and SAT II and enjoy junior spring prom for which, if you recall, we hosted that after prom all-night party… but I digress…)

Anyway, now with the option to send only selected parts of the SAT (like the ACT) there seems to be even more reason to consider taking the SAT in the fall of jr year after the PSAT. I highly recommend it, especially if the twins are considering prepping for the PSAT. And as you recall, all this worked out very well for him.

*** by the way… I am a “j” on MBTI also, tho close to a “p”

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Stop Me From Jumping The Gun!

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