<p>“You might possible want to do the SAT tutoring this summer, because then it may impact your child’s PSAT score and that may make the difference between NMSF and not.”
I agree. I did have my son do a little SAT tutoring the summer before his Jr year for that very reason. He had taken the PSAT as a sophomore, and his score would have been juuuuust shy of qualifying for NMF. His 2nd PSAT score shot up and he qualified for NMF with ease. His following SAT scores validated his NMF standing.
This was very smart planning on my part[ if I do say so myself!]</p>
<p>Here’s a different take on the PSAT. If you really need a merit scholarship based on the PSAT (and there are many), take the SAT BEFORE the PSAT. The PSAT score will probably be higher that way.</p>
<p>menlo–
Ditto! DS did some of his tutoring (really vocab tweaking and strategy formation) in the summer-- then finished after school began, and had the same outcome as your s.</p>
<p>Never thought about the SAT before the PSAT. That seems tough, but I understand your reasoning. The studnet would probably not want the scores released til they saw them, and with the new possibilities with that with teh SAT, that could work.</p>
<p>Taking a 3.5 hour test in order to prepare for a 2 hr test? And having to get up early on an Sat morning to boot? I know that my kid would have said no way!</p>
<p>I looked into the cost of private tutoring and it’s insane – thousands of dollars. Not going to do it. They can take the $229 test prep classes offered by our local comm college.</p>
<p>if you borrow the Barrons, Kaplan and Princeton Review books from your local library, you can improve your SAT score for $0 (assuming you do all the exercises and get plenty of practice!)</p>
<p>that’s how I did it</p>
<p>I think one thing that I’m struggling with is that I don’t know what caliber of colleges are reasonable reach/match/safeties for them, and I feel like I can’t know until I get ACT or SAT scores back. Their GPA’s are 4.1 and 4.2 weighted (our school doesn’t give unweighted). S is just below top 10% and D is within 10%. But are they taking the very possibly hardest curriculum? No - S is humanities oriented and D is math / science oriented and they take honors / AP in those areas but not in others (with my permission / blessing). Plus - they just are normal hs kids with normal hs activities and clubs and interests – they aren’t the Intel-winning, Olympic-finalist, started-my-own-business-and-cured-cancer kids I see on CC that scare me out of thinking that it’s even a possibility to go after the top schools. I guess I’m also just anxious for those scores just to get a benchmark as to where we’re heading, could head, or should head.</p>
<p>Yes, I see what you mean. My DS took the SAT’s in 8th grade to be considered for a summer program–didn’t end up enrolling in the program but his good scores comforted us. Seeing as how one can take the SAT’s as often as you like these days, perhaps yours should go ahead and take the test itself as a practice round, just to see how they’ll do, even before the PSAT. Takes the mystery, etc., out of it, too. Assuming they don’t object horribly. Why not take the real thing, then see if tutoring, etc., is needed for improving the scores?</p>
<p>They would object horribly to being made to take a standardized test just to please me, and my H would object too :-).</p>
<p>S did take the ACT in something like 7th or 8th grade for a summer program, but I can’t see projecting those scores out to mean anything. They did both take the PSAT as sophomores (as practice- required by school) but it was “cold”, no prep, and again, I can’t see projecting those scores out tremendously.</p>
<p>“They did both take the PSAT as sophomores (as practice- required by school) but it was “cold”, no prep”
Those scores do give you a baseline. They usually don’t go up too much between grades. Were they close to the NMF cutoff for your state? IF so, and IF money will or might be an factor in any decision about where they can afford to go to college, then I DO suggest they do some prep this summer. It’s not too soon to have a discussion about college costs and what they can do to try to make college more affordable. That one test does count for a lot.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl: Where are you looking for private tutors? I’ve found that the most reliable way to find tutors is through friends; do your children know people, perhaps a year or two older, who had tutors for the SAT?</p>
<p>Agree with menloparkmom. You need that baseline to work from early, otherwise you might get caught by surprise and have your maneuvering room reduced. However silly it may seem for a preliminary test to have this much clout, PSAT is where the money is at, and if you score in the semifinalist range you can look up all the schools that offer NMSF/NMF merit money (there are lists here on CC) and plan your spring Jr. year college visits accordingly. Here is one:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/649276-nmf-scholarships-updated-compilation.html</a></p>
<p>We had a different experience with early test scores. S took the PSAT sophomore year cold and did pretty well (not NMF well, not in range for that), he took it junior year with a little more prep (self-directed with prep books) and did significantly worse. He took the SAT spring of junior year with yet more self-directed prep and did quite well. He took it a second time in fall of senior year, mostly just prepping for the math section believing that was an area he could see some improvement. He was a straight A math student, but his score in the math section wasn’t that great (I think it was a 680 on the first SAT), but inexplicably even with the extra math prep his math subsection score went down on the second SAT. However his writing and reading (already high the first time around) went up even higher.</p>
<p>So who knows? His tests superscored gave him a 2200, so that was that. It was good enough as it turned out.</p>
<p>You raise an interesting question about identifying the schools that are good bets. This gets really tricky with ED apps though. Since it is binding, I’d only use ED for a school that feels like a reach school, a dream school. Yes, the chances of getting into those schools is slimmer, but for less reachy schools (and since you’ll be able to pay) the chances of getting RD acceptances is better anyway.</p>
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<p>I’m not sure test scores are the best thing to clarify where you should be looking for schools. If you school has Naviance, I’d recommend looking at where the student with similar profiles have been matriculating to in recent years. I think that will give you a better range of likely outcomes (no use looking too high or too low) for your kids.</p>
<p>I still think for right now it is more important to find out what type of school environment they like. You don’t have to be precise on finding a set of reaches, matches, and safeties right now. Most importantly, you want to know how they react to LACs vs State Flagships; Urban vs Suburban vs Rural; etc.</p>
<p>Mind you, these preferences may evolve over time as you see more and more schools. It is kind of like finding that special someone. How would they know what characteristics about a person or a school are most important until they spend some time with a variety. Yeah, some people truly know up front what they want, but often that can change as they mature. However, I can’t think of why more knowledge would be worse, unless you try to see 100 schools in 30 days.</p>
<p>From my experience I have to disagree a bit with Menlo. My honors high-GPA child got in the 150s on his PSAT the first time out (9th grade). I thought we had to give up on competitive schools. With a bit of prep, and figuring out what a timed test is, he went up to the 200s for his Junior PSAT and high 2100s on his first SAT. Given this background, I know he can go up further, but its up to him and neither of us thinks its necessarily worth the time or effort. My point is don’t think the taking the PSAT cold with no prep necessarily gives you a good idea of how your kid will do. For many kids (like my son and countless others on CC) they can improve dramatically. If I had known this earlier I would have suggested he prep before the junior year PSAT, like Menlo, because if he did as well on the PSAT as he did on the SAT he would have been a NMSF. I just didn’t think he was in the ballpark because of the earlier score. And, in retrospect, its foolish to put much stock in the collegeboard’s representations that scores can be predicted from earlier scores or that they measure natural ability or aptitude.</p>
<p>full disclosure:I had a pretty good idea that he would be able to score in NMF range, as he had taken the SAT in 7th grade to qualify for a CTY program, and scored well at that time. Reading prior posts on CC suggested that on average, SAT scores tend to go up around 50 pts/ year in HS. Also I knew we would be looking for FA/ Merit$, and had gotten the idea of some summer tutoring to help nudge PSAT scores up from someone who suggested it on CC in 2004. Asking a kid to do 6 hrs of tutoring during the summer is not too much IMHO if it means anywhere from $4000 to $85000 in college tuition savings [USC offers automatic 1/2 tuition scholarships to NMF’s]</p>
<p>Sophomore-year PSATs were the starting gun for my son, or at least for me to start the nervous-parent act. His scores were just on the edge of that year’s NMSF cutoff. He was willing to take a couple of Saturday morning tests that year, so with his blessing I signed him up for the SAT and a subject test (on different dates, of course) and told him no pressure, just learn how to take the test (his score was respectable, but improved greatly the second time around). I think he took one blue-book test before that. Same with the PSAT. When he sat for the PSAT again, the format was familiar to him and he felt comfortable (plus, it was a lot shorter and easier than the SAT he’d already taken). He made NMSF by a wide margin, then went on to NMF/NMS. In contrast, one of his classmates worked long hours with a private tutor who “guaranteed” a 200-point increase; she raised her score by 20 points, then declared she’d had enough and refused to take any more tutoring or tests. So much for the guarantee. YMMV, of course, but imho, the best prep for the SAT or PSAT is… taking the SAT or PSAT.</p>
<p>Pizzagirl, if the Pizzakiddos will need to take subject tests, it is helpful to map out all the sittings beginning in junior year and try to have no more than one sitting/retake remaining in the first part of senior year. Take a look at the test dates on collegeboard.com and come up with a tentative schedule to run by them before the school year starts. They might grumble about it this year, but they’ll gloat next year when their classmates are grousing about having to get up at oh-dark-thirty on the morning after Homecoming to take a stinking four-hour test! I think that spreading the testing out over junior year just makes it a bit easier and more palatable.</p>
<p>I also think that January of junior year is a good time for the SAT – October and November see all the NMSFs who need to submit SAT scores for NMF status, and the hyperfectionists making last-ditch efforts to go from 2300 to 2350 before ED apps go in (I don’t have an authoritative source to base this on, sorry, just a hunch). Subject tests can be taken in the fall if the related coursework is done already, or in the early spring with a little legwork and a decent test prep book. May and June are usually busy times with AP tests and finals. If an ACT is on the agenda, it’s nice to know that one’s offered in September.</p>
<p>In scheduling tests, it’s important to guard against testing fatigue and allow for preparation (and greater maturity) in between. A two-month hiatus between tests may not be enough. And unless your kids have a much higher testing tolerance than mine, I wouldn’t push for more than three sittings in a year.</p>
<p>As to college selection, yeah, it’s pretty normal for the kids to be completely disinterested at this point. 
I regularly put all of geek_son’s college junk mail in his seat in the car. He humored me by going through it during our commutes to and from school, sometimes to hilarious effect (I love the way he says “Swarthmore”). This was how he first heard of the college he visited last year, fell in love with, and will attend in the fall.</p>
<p>I will love not too worry! But my daughter is not worry, so figure, I have to? I am worried about her low math SAT. I am not sure if she will get into a good place. She wants to double major in Musical Theatre and Political Science. As far as auditions, she will do good, she sings lovely and acts since she was about 5. She auditioned for a college program in Ithaca College this summer and got in. She is all excited, tomorrow is her first week there. She has two more weeks and then she needs to come back to FL and start those essays and applications. That is what concerns me, she is a rising junio and only has one more chance for SAT/ACT. Any advice from parents would be greatly appreciated. I only have one daughter, and honestly, I don’t remember my parents went through all this complexity with me!</p>
<p>“she is a rising junior and only has one more chance for SAT/ACT.”
Huh?? She can take the SAT in Oct, Dec, Jan. March, May and /or June of her Jr year. And again in Oct of her Sr year. What’s with "one more chance???</p>
<p>“Subject tests can be taken in the fall if the related coursework is done already.
May and June are usually busy times with AP tests and finals.”
Many posters, myself included, strongly suggest that May and June months are in deed the BEST time to take the subject tests, as the material will still be fresh from studying for finals and/or AP tests. This is especially true for subject tests that strongly correlate to tan AP test- US History and APUSH for an example. Yes, for Jrs’ it may mean a lot of tests in those 2 months, but wouldn’t a student be better prepared to take a subject test after 9 months in school studying that subject or after 3 months off? Worked for my kid as well as many others I know.</p>