<p>Are you prepared to be asked to explain what that point was? </p>
<p>By the way, POIH, after presenting your statistical analysis on the impact of the 2300 and 2350 SAT scores at Princeton, did you consider controlling for the GPA dstribution. </p>
<p>If Princeton accepts 22.4% of students with SAT between 2300 and 2400, what happens the those student with a GPA below 4.00, as in 3.9-3.99 having a 9.5 % acceptance rate? This is not a “either/or” situation as both criteria have to be met.</p>
<p>Rejection is no fun, and I feel badly for the OP and his friends who probably had it pounded into their heads from a very young age that the only schools worth anything are the Ivies, and that they would be awarded the brass ring if they achieved perfect or near perfect grades and scores.</p>
<p>Maybe they should have gone to DD’s high school where kids are regularly accepted into the Ivies. Brown is most popular, probably due to its diversity, but Harvard pops up quite a bit and so does MIT. These are Asians, mostly male, from low income Vietnamese and Chinese immigrant families and are the first generation to gain higher education. Inner city school (maybe 12% middle class white and 23% Asian, mostly low income) in a horrible school district in a dysfunctional city; suburban it ain’t. The small classes are for the failing kids; true college prep classes are ginormous with so many kids shoehorned in that it is a fire hazard. No Tiger Mamas. No money for music lessons. But these bright kids have stories and bring in an important (IMHO) and interesting perspective to their schools, despite their lack of tiptop grades and scores.</p>
<p>And, FWIW, I am Asian American. I get furious when I read posts dissing URMs and implying that they don’t <em>deserve</em> to be admitted to wherever and suggesting that test scores are directly correlated with intelligence. Racism is alive and well in the U.S. and institutional racism can be seen all over. I was raised in a white suburb. The presence and perspective of URMs at my college and as my housemates/roommates contributed GREATLY to my educational experience and insights. </p>
<p>Disclosure: DD is not Ivy material, but she is an interesting kid. Would hate Cal & Irvine – too many Asians! We’re looking at schools in the Midwest hoping that being Asian brings something to the table, and it is a better match than the South.</p>
<p>Interestingly that actually prove that not all strong SAT1 scored student actually have strong GPA. So the chances for a student like OP actually are even higher than 22.2% depicted on that link.</p>
<p>It also make it clear that SAT1 is given a higher weight than GPA or to put in more clear terms GPA from different school doesn’t mean the same thing but SAT1 remain same from state to state and school to school so colleges put more emphasis on it.</p>
<p>I don’t have a habit of getting furious on any occasion but that doesn’t mean that I’m happy with children of URM like President Obama and the like be given any advantage during the admission process over the hard working middle class children of Asian parent.</p>
<p>Nope! An applicant with a lower GPA has a lower chance of gaining admission. The 3.95 GPA equates to a below 10 percenta admit … according to your own chart. The data are not a buffet line where you pick what you like. Students have both a GPA and test scores in their files.</p>
<p>I still don’t know who these so-called “Asians” are - do we mean “Formosans?” “Malaysians?” “Laos”? “Pakistanis”? </p>
<p>Now, of course, parents of URMs don’t work hard. </p>
<p>One thing not to be if applying to H: poor. The number of Pell Grant recipients accepted are tiny, and, if not one of those not-so-hardworking URMs, even tinier.</p>
<p>Believe it or not, there are California public universities that do not have an extremely high Asian percentage. E.g. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo ~10% Asian (which is even more odd due to the engineering focus of the school), CSU Monterey Bay ~5% Asian, UC Santa Cruz ~22% Asian, UC Santa Barbara ~21% Asian.</p>
<p>But the point was does OP has a right to complain about it or not? Why any one should bash OP for just raising a complaint? It might be just the difference in perspective.</p>
<p>For a URM this will not be an issue worth complaining but while for ORM it is.</p>
<p>The plot thickens. After Russell K. Nieli, the editor of “Contemporary Voices of White Nationalism in America” will we be reading from Patrick J. Buchanan? He also writes about “Bias and Bigotry in Academia.” Then we can add Center for Equal Opportunity’s Roger Clegg to the mix. </p>
<p>OP, we had rather loud reactions to Alexandra Wallace’s “ching-chong” tirade from the Asian community. Perhaps you can impress on the leaders that racial discrimination in admission, if it exists, is far more consequential, and their efforts are better spent in this arena. If you can get someone to do an actual research project where you put in all the factors that people on both sides of the debate feel are important, maybe we’ll be able to get figures that can’t be disputed as they are now.</p>
<p>I think the OP has every right to wonder whether Asians are being discriminated against at top schools–but let’s not pretend that he’s doing something else. Of course that was the implication of the initial post. But we’ve been all over this issue before, and in my opinion, which you can take or leave, there’s enough data to justify asking the question, but not enough–not nearly enough–to answer it. Of course, if you’re one of the people rejected, it sure seems to you like you know the answer.</p>
<p>As far as randomness, etc., here’s my analogy: applying to the most selective schools is like hunting for hummingbirds with a .22, blindfolded. It just stands to reason that you increase your chance of hitting one if you fire more shots. (To add to the analogy, more shots won’t increase your chances if you are on the wrong side of the mountain from where the hummingbirds are.)</p>
<p>I think AA has damaged race relations rather than improved them. See the “Affirmative Action Disgusts Me” thread. No one wants to be discriminated against based on the color of their skin, even Asians and whites.</p>
What OP is questioning is if non-ORMs and URMs were blindfolded and stood next him and started firing, how likely would it be that they would have struck out to the extent he and his friends did. If his numbers are true, he clearly has a point.</p>
<p>I don’t want to go into all of this, but I will note that nobody thinks that any colleges admit black people because they don’t like white people, or think there are too many white people around. They do it because they don’t think there are enough black people. The difficult question that’s relevant here is whether Asians are being treated like white people, or like an undesirable minority. As I’ve said before, I understand why Asians are suspicious, because what they suspect of happening to them is exactly what really did happen to Jews. But again, the proof really isn’t there.</p>
<p>The post above mine is, perhaps, the best tool to bring an end to this discussion. For no other reason that we have been there, done that ad nauseam, and are still not any wiser. In an eclectic society such as ours, there will always be claims of discrimination, especially when groups migrate to the status of “model minority.” There will always be the temptation for people who did GREATLY benefit from welcoming policies to pack away the ladder away if it becomes used by undesirables.</p>
<p>It’s a false comparison to say that Asians are 4 (?) % of the population of the U. S. and make up more than 4% of those attending Ivies or other elite universities. </p>
<p>You’d have to compare the stats on Asians applying versus the stats on other racial groups applying. And the numbers of Asians applying which are likely much more than their percent of the population. </p>
<p>If after selecting a certain floor of stats, you find that of those qualified, Asians are say 40%, but the college only takes 20% Asian, then I think a case could be made for discrimination.</p>