<p>Another nervous parent of an ED/EA applicant here.... I'd really appreciate it if you'd slog through this post. :o</p>
<p>My daughter was rejected by Columbia (no surprise, really) and still has 4 EA applications pending. We submitted only SAT scores to all schools because her 2110 SAT is better than her 30 ACT (Especially since she scored a 24 in science and one of her stated majors is engineering). Now I'm wondering, since her older 2 SAT scores are not as good as her most recent, and her SAT II's are not very good at all (Math2 650, Spanish 570, Physics 560, Chemistry 560 (no prep on any of them :()), should we have submitted her ACT's as evidence that (even though not AS good) her highest SAT's were not an anomaly? Maybe at least to the two schools that she has not indicated an interest in engineering to? Do you think it's too late anyway?</p>
<p>Honestly, it sounds to me like you are seconding guessing yourself, most likely from what is a high stress situation. My gut feeling is that I doubt whether submitting the ACT’s would make a difference.</p>
<p>Good luck-- I know we will all be happy when this is over!</p>
<p>As a scientist, I can tell you that the ACT science part does not seem to test students’ knowledge in sciences, but rather it is a test of their reading skills and ability to interpret graphs. I hope college adcom members understand that. </p>
<p>If you D’s score in this part is 24, and the overall score is 30, it means she scored very well on the other parts of the test. I would have sent it in addition to the SATs, 30 is not that bad! If you look at the common data sets at some schools, they list 25-75% scores for individual ACT English and Math sections, which means they are looking at the individual sections, not only the overall score. If she has any more applications in the Q, and money is not that big of a deal, I would send it in addition to the SATs.</p>
<p>But in the long run, ED are crapshoot. Your D will do fine!</p>
<p>I hope that is not true, about the adcoms picking apart the ACT science score, since my son got a 36 on the Science ACT, and a 34 on his composite and wants to be a doctor!! </p>
<p>OP, I feel your pain and stress. We are worried about a deferment or rejection from Vassar this week, and I know how we will second guess all that he did. BUT, I would NOT do as some advised and have your daughter retest. She has probably had enough stress with this. I would support her as she works on her other applications, make sure she gets them done, and reassure her that she will end up in a wonderful school that values who she is and what she has done.</p>
<p>I am telling my son things happen for a reason, so to be open to the possibilities of not getting in ED.</p>
<p>Regarding the SAT I score, my D has a similar situation in that her last sitting score is far better than the first two. (getting her to prepare for those was like pulling teeth, first scores scared her to death so she PREPARED for the third). So we had same concerns, but we were reassured that the best sitting score is the only one that will be considered. Adcoms will also look at grades/course levels on transcript to ascertain that score makes sense. I wouldn’t worry about the anomaly thing too much.
As for ACT, BunsenBurner does have a point. In our case, also similar scores to yours, D decided not to send the ACT.</p>
<p>I don’t think that the earlier low SAT I scores would be a problem, but the low SAT IIs definitely will hurt her chances at top schools. I am sure it is too late for EA, but I’d send the ACT to the RD schools.</p>
<p>I’m strongly suggesting that if colleges will receive new SAT II scores by their deadlines, that the OP’s D retake those SAT IIs.Why? She’s applying to engineering schools, and her SAT II scores (which, according to research, accurately reflect students’ knowledge of the subjects tested) are low for engineering programs. Also, the D didn’t prep for the SAT IIs, so more than likely, if she preps, she’ll do much better.</p>
<p>I agree with NSM. For engineering schools that require SAT IIs, studying and retaking is worth the effort. It is a bad idea to take those tests unprepared, but for some reason many kids don’t realize it until it is too late…</p>
<p>Reviewing a prep book before taking SAT 2s in science is required. Our D found that her high school classes didn’t cover all the material covered by the tests. </p>
<p>I don’t know if you’ll have time to review both chemistry and physics before retaking in January. Since engineering is the stated plan, I’d retake physics and math after REALLY studying.</p>
<p>Or just go with what you got…I don’t know how successful you’ll be in getting your kid to spend all Christmas vacation chained to prep books.</p>
<p>Maybe the daughter’s SAT II scores are highlighting that her daughter will have a terribly difficult time in engineering school? I think that if my son received low grades in SAT subjects that are important for engineering, I would ask him to really rethink his career goals. If after reflection, he still thought that he would want to be an engineer, then he should be willing to go through the stress and trouble of studying for the SATIIs again. Student solves the problem himself/herself!! It would be a way to get him/her to realize how much they want what they claim they want. </p>
<p>Engineering school is not easy, in any way. I know more students who have dropped out of engineering than complete the course. My son’s school sent a student with high 90s in AP Math and Science and a 750 Math SAT score to RPI and he is truly struggling.</p>
<p>Many schools don’t even look at the Science section since it has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Math, Reading and Writing are the only sections considered by many schools (usually ones that accept both the ACT and SAT, and some don’t consider Writing.) But seriously, the Science section is complete garbage.</p>
<p>I don’t think the lack of the ACT is hurting her. I agree with other posters it’s the SAT2 scores. Very low for Columbia or almost any engineering school.</p>
<p>hmmmm. My youngest scored a 650 on his SAT II math; a 790 on the SAT math. Didn’t keep him out of any of the schools he wanted to go to. And he’s an engineering major. He forgot his calculator for the SAT II test, and had to borrow a girl’s non-graphing calculator, which didn’t help. But the adcoms didn’t know that, did they?</p>
<p>That test scores are used for admissions purposes is indisputable. However, I’m not sure they are indicative of whether or not a student is ready for or will succeed in engineering. My older son’s SATII math score wasn’t too hot, either, and he’s now a paid calculus tutor for the university.</p>
<p>Both sons would have done much better on the SATII’s if they had just prepped and been prepared (calculators are nice…). But they’ve done just fine in college calculus/advanced math (A’s), and are both engineers. So don’t let a test score from your junior year of high school discourage you from pursuing your dream. </p>
<p>Many times, the scores you receive on subject tests or AP tests are more indicative of the class you took and the teacher you had, rather than your aptitude or potential in that subject. It could very well be that a student did not have adequate high school preparation in pre-calc or calc, and might do MUCH better under a different teacher in college.</p>
<p>What you said about teachers is true. But my point was that if a student doesn’t want to do the prep to retake the SATII tests, then perhaps that student doesn’t really want to follow that career path. Sorry it was lost in translation.</p>
<p>My kids didn’t study for those tests at all. They literally did not have the time to study for standardized subject tests, plus take the courses they did, plus play varsity sports and do other ECs and part time jobs. It was everything just to take the basic SATs and SAT IIs. My oldest spent every fall Friday night getting beat up on the gridiron, and during the spring every Friday was spent on the baseball field, many times traveling across the state and getting home after midnight. It was a feat just getting those tests in, much less studying. Both kids didn’t get home until 7 PM at the earliest each night, and then they had hours of homework and studying to do. My hat is off to kids who find the time to prep for APs, SAT IIs, etc. Either they get very little sleep or are geniuses who can get their regular homework done in no time flat.</p>
<p>At any rate, my sons were both very motivated to study engineering, science, and premed. They are doing great in college in spite of the fact that they didn’t have consistently stellar test scores. They go to UF now, but also gained admissions to UVa, UNC, W&M, GaTech, Emory, and others. It didn’t hurt their chances too much.</p>
<p>I hope my post is encouraging. Best wishes to all the students out there who are anxiously awaiting their results!</p>
<p>I do agree that many career plans change once you get to college and take some of the pre-requisite courses. Many a pre-med major has crashed on the shoals of organic chemistry.</p>
<p>What class is the weed out class for engineering majors?</p>