<p>Trying to sort through completely different advice from two "college counseling advisors" I spoke with about whether my son should retake the SATs.</p>
<p>He has taken them twice - highest scores are CR-690, M-780, W-770. He took the ACT once - 34 (reading was the lowest section). He never studied for the tests. (His CR on PSAT was higher - 73)</p>
<p>One advisor told him to retake the SATs - told him Ivies rarely look at an application if one of the scores is not 700 or higher (without a hook or URM status). Strongly urged him to study and retake it.</p>
<p>A different advisor told him not to bother - that the standard deviation around 690 puts him over 700 anyway, and he would look crazy and desperate to retake them. Given other really good stats that he has, she suggested that he leave it alone. </p>
<p>I have my own opinion, but these two experienced counselors have completely different views. What do you think?</p>
<p>My kids didn’t apply to Ivies, but I might have my child retake to improve the 690. Many kids take the SAT twice, and a little prep could help that score. Check if the schools he is interested in superscore the SAT.</p>
<p>Seriously, forget the SAT’s. A 34 ACT is good for virtually anywhere. My kid was advised to stop taking SAT’s in the face of a similar ACT, with excellent admission results.</p>
<p>Just use the ACT. The only issue will be whether your son is applying to schools that will require ACT + SAT subject test scores. If that is the case read the fine print from the colleges it may be that they will also want to see SAT 1 scores, but I don’t think so. Even though a 690 is for all practical purposes equal to a 700, I think it can be hard for admissions counselors to remember that. Both my kids (who got into Harvard, Carnegie Mellon SCS, Tufts, Vassar and U of Chicago between the two of them) had at least one under 700 score. It may have caused them some denials (or in my older son’s case especially) - it was more likely other parts of the application that were an issue. They got into great colleges that were good fits for them - I have no regrets, and as far as I know neither do they, about the many fine colleges that rejected them.</p>
<p>Thanks for you advice about the ACT. Here are my questions and concerns about only sending the ACT: 1. They would still get the breakdown on the ACT, and he didn’t do very well on the reading section; 2. He took three SAT II tests already and got 800s on two of them and a 780 on one, and you can’t send those without the SAT I scores; 3. I’ve heard that East coast colleges are suspicious of students from the East coast if they only submit the ACT, since it might imply that they did poorly on the SAT. Any thoughts?</p>
I really don’t think that’s true any more. What was the reading score?</p>
<p>The list of where they didn’t get into is a list of great schools too. For older son rejections from MIT, Caltech, Stanford and a waitlist at Harvey Mudd. For younger son rejections from (Harvard, Brown, and Georgetown). Younger son had much, lower stats than older son so the rejections weren’t a surprise. At the level of selectivity top students are dealing with, it’s just really hard to predict what caused the rejections - I just don’t think in most cases the SAT score will be the deciding factor. In my older son’s case I suspect essays and onesidedness. In younger son’s case GPA was the most likely culprit.</p>
<p>My kid scored 2380 on SAT. 800 on his Subject Matter Tests–all of them. 34 on ACT. His GPA was 4.5. National Merit Scholarship Finalist.</p>
<p>Denied Stanford and Yale. WL’d Princeton and Brown…but didn’t get a call. Instead hes heading to a great LAC (Pomona) that will be perfect for him. </p>
<p>It isn’t all about the scores. </p>
<p>So where did my kid fall down? Who knows? His community service was light. His essays probably not deep enough given he didn’t have a hook. (What’s a poor, upper middle class, white guy to do?) </p>
<p>I know several other kids he went to school with who got into Ivy’s. With lesser GPAs, and lesser test scores. Yes they had a hook. And in addition, they had the community service and they seemed truly into belly button contemplation for their essays.</p>
<p>I dont mean to sound bitter…truthfully I’m more sanguine about it. I’m just sharing the god’s honest truth in case SOMETHING in all of this resonates for you.</p>
<p>That is pretty shocking, and I know you are not alone, since I’ve heard other stories like this, and know of other kids with similar rejections. </p>
<p>I realize the scores and grades aren’t everything - I just want to let him get his foot in the door. Thanks for offering you experience.</p>
<p>Omg, don’t just send the ACT. Both are great. You don’t have to have over 700. Frankly, adcoms will see the 34 and then the SAT is secondary, but it’s there for them to see the high performance. These scores all put him “in range.” </p>
<p>Save the energy for creating a great app package- because that’s where a high-performing kid can fall down. (Note that Mathmom wrote “it was more likely other parts of the application that were an issue.” And ProudMom admits the same.) Let him be with these scores and focus on the short answers, essay(s) and arranging the EC’s. IME. </p>
<p>^Yes younger son actually had two scores under 700, and a 790 in CR to make up for it. His teachers loved him and he wrote (I think) great essays. His official GPA and rank were bolstered by A+s in orchestra, if you took those grades away, he was a B+ student. He did much, much better acceptance-wise than his scores or GPA would suggest.</p>
<p>Thanks. I am very aware that my procrastinating son is at risk to screw up big time with his application and essays, so I appreciate the reminders that this certainly needs his effort. </p>
<p>He is still undecided about a major, with interests ranging from math/sciences to liberal arts/fine arts fields.</p>
<p>Hmm, that’s a tough call. My D’s bf had similar SAT’s (took once) and a perfect ACT (took once) and perfect Math II SAT and was rejected by couple of Ivy’s, MIT, Cal Tech. I personally thought at the time he should have retaken SAT’s. But who knows if it would have made a difference? D said his essays were excellent. Then again he went to a high school with no AP’s IB’s or honors, so maybe that was it. </p>
<p>If your son had only taken once, I’d definitely say do some prep and re-take. Not so sure about taking third time. If it were me, I’d probably suggest he re-take if you’re pretty sure he’ll do better, but don’t if you think there’s a good chance scores will stay around the same or possibly even drop.</p>
<p>I wish test scores weren’t such a big thing, but learned the hard way (daughter wasn’t looking at Ivy’s but also took SAT/ACT only once with minimal prep – she did fine but could have improved) that they are pretty important.</p>
<p>@maggiedog - your first post seems to say that your son did not prep for the 2nd SAT test. I think you have to leave this (and the whole application process) up to him. The worst that can happen is that he gets into a “match” rather than a “reach” school.</p>
<p>whydoicare,
I agree that my son was not taking the studying part seriously enough. The first time he took them, he had a cold, so I think he assumed his score would improve the second time without much effort. He stubbornly refused to study much more than look over the guidebook briefly. I agree that it has to be up to him at this point. I don’t think he should even bother retaking them unless he studies.</p>
<p>Send both tests and have him spend his time writing a great, unique essay. It’s not all about test scores and IMO he already has that box checked off with both of those test scores.</p>
<p>The test scores and GPA get your application in the door for a “lottery ticket” at the ivy and other upper tier schools. The difference is the intangibles - the essays, the recommendations, the unusual EC’s and athletics, possibly the interview, and any hooks that the applicant may have.</p>