Strategy for creating a balanced college list?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Good that you kept Kenyon rather than Denison. Frats and drinking are far harder to avoid at Denison. They exist at Kenyon but are not overdone and easily avoided.</p>

<p>Kenyon’s acceptance rated dropped into the low 20s (22% I believe) last year, because of a huge jump in applications, but prior to that it was in the high 30s. Even Kenyon is not quite sure why it became so popular so suddenly. The prime suspect is the popularity of author John Green; which is as good a guess as any. Who knows if applications will stay high, or return closer to the previous norm.</p>

<p>Since Ohio seems acceptable to your daughter, take a look at Ohio Wesleyan University. Closer to Columbus than Kenyon, it would be both an academic as well as financial safety. Offers outstanding financial aid, and has rigorous academics. Small town of Delaware offers a bit more to do than Gambier/Kenyon, but the campus is more ordinary. See OWU merit aid policies here:
<a href=“http://choose.owu.edu/financialAidAndScholarships/academicScholarships.php”>http://choose.owu.edu/financialAidAndScholarships/academicScholarships.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I think you definitely have the right strategy in mind - if you can find a match school that is a fit financially, academically, and temperamentally, that would be ideal. </p>

<p>It’s unfortunate that none of the match schools you have identified so far can tick all the boxes, but I agree with @Sue22‌ that it’s probably best to keep all the matches on the list (unless you can replace a couple with options more solid financially) to avoid the “only Swat and a safety” scenario.</p>

<p>Given that Ohio is in play I was surprised not to see Oberlin on her list. They’re a 100%-of-need school and have a strong spirit of activism.</p>

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<p>@doschicos‌, I agree that those visits/interviews are super important. Finding the time has been daunting working around Cross Country schedule and D taking a course at Dartmouth (a cool opportunity through her HS), but we’re making some headway. Have all the visits on the calendar between now and November (Bowdoin, Wellesley, Kenyon, Dickinson, and Bates - though we may drop this one), but still have to find some time for alumni interviews at Swarthmore, Haverford, and Middlebury (has already visited all 3). She’s already visited Williams, Amherst and Brown, so we’re good to go with those for now.
Really grateful for the easier application process at the safety schools!</p>

<p>@arwarw‌, thank you for the kuddos - have spent many (too many!) hours on it! Feels good to actually see it taking shape in a meaningful way. And your point about the need for D to get focused on her applications is well taken. She finished the Mt. Allison one last night and has the majority of the common app (including essay) completed, so she’s making progress. Geez, kiddos today have it rough - takes a lot of effort to get in to some of these schools. I only had to fill out 2 college apps - and I thought that was a lot of work!</p>

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<p>@NROTCgrad‌, we had OWU on our list a while back, especially due to the great FA and it being listed among the “colleges that change lives”. We took it off as it felt too focused on frat life and sports, and I (wrongly) assumed that there would not be enough academic rigor based on SAT scores and ranking. Think we were both still stuck in the “prestige” stage of the search process at that point. </p>

<p>However, after reading your post, I went back and researched it a bit more and wow! it really could be a very nice fit for my daughter. After reading several student reviews, the frat/ahtlete thing does not seem to influence campus life in a negative way, but instead contributes to a strong sense of community - a rare find in a small, rural LAC. And academically, courses seem rigorous and engaging - especially through the honors program. Plus, lots of community service and social activism aligned with an international focus. And the honors housing with quiet hours 24/7 is right up D’s alley - one of her biggest fears is ending up in a dorm where students pre game in their rooms every week-end or play beer pong in the hall at 3 am.</p>

<p>Thanks for putting this one back on our radar!</p>

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<p>@DreamSchlDropout‌, Oberlin was on our radar very early on in the search process. D just did not like the vibe - nothing concrete, just a sense. She felt the same way about Wesleyan - think the hipster and PC atmosphere doesn’t match her more quiet personality? </p>

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<p>I’m baffled by the safeties and some of the match colleges on your list. An important consideration for your daughter is “what will she do after graduation?”. Best is to avoid colleges that are inherently regional. That’s the case for Minnesota Morris and Canada Mt. Allison, and OOS publics in states with relatively low populations. Following the thread I notice additional very regional colleges mentioned. Best is to find colleges that have a broad geographic spectrum of students, or at least State flagships that are close to home. She’ll need to apply for a job at some point and unless she chooses to live in proximity of the college she attends she’ll draw blanks from (even savvy) hiring managers.</p>

<p>Also I’m of the strong opinion that 17 and 18 year-olds undergo profound change in their early college years, so restrictions regarding the “sorority scene” etc. are simply barriers to finding a good place to grow. For your safety college/university I recommend you pick the appropriate University of New Hampshire campus – probably Exeter. Then look more broadly at the reach colleges. Consider applying ED to one of the reach colleges (one that is need blind). It will make a major difference over RD in terms of chances. LACs pick a significant (50+%) portion of their class ED.</p>

<p>Finally I recommend that you vet your eventual list with your high school college counselor.</p>

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<p>^^^^ED would be a good strategy for Swath or Bowdoin, but I would really put the application through the paces. Several drafts and redrafts with a trusted editor - as in a really good english teacher - if possible. With ED apps due very soon, on Nov.1st (I think), that might not be possible. </p>

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<p>

You are welcome. I actually know quite a bit about both Kenyon and Ohio Wesleyan. My dad is a Kenyon alum and I live within five miles of OWU (and have a good co-worker who is an alum along with his wife). You will, in fact, find considerably more activist spirit at OWU than Kenyon. More diversity too. Perhaps OWU is slightly less rigorous academically, but its reputation is “easy to get in, but hard to stay” which explains the SAT and ACT scores. OWU is academically rigorous enough for anyone, regardless of talent.</p>

<p>Also take a look at the “Small Living Units” at OWU. <a href=“Residential Life | Ohio Wesleyan University”>Residential Life | Ohio Wesleyan University;

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<p>I agree with MrMom that she should look into Brandeis - it meets all of her requirements ands social justice is one of its founding principles. Smart, politically involved, studious, generous undergrads too.</p>

<p>Haverford is probably a reach. Plus it is very closely involved with Bryn Mawr (I went to the latter and took many courses at Haverford - there is also the option to take classes at Penn and Swarthmore or at least there was when I was there), so I wonder why she would not like Bryn Mawr yet like Haverford…</p>

<p>A strong vote for adding Brandeis to the list. I saw recently (sorry, can’t remenber where) that their FA is generous.</p>

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<p>@fogcity‌, unfortunately NH has the distinctive honor of having the highest instate tuition in the country and the state flag ship offers very little in terms of merit aid. If we lived one state over (VT), we’d be in a much better position as UVM gives full tuition scholarships to all national merit finalists in state. No such luck here.</p>

<p>I see your point with regard to the limitations of regional schools. However, as top ranking public liberal arts colleges with more than their fair share of accolades, I don’t see either Mt. Allison or Morris as fitting that mold. Grad school acceptance rates look good at both and a there are more than a handful of Rhodes scholars to boot. But your comments did make me realize that I really don’t have a clear picture of post grad success of students at any of the schools on her list. You’re absolutely right - that is a rather important consideration. D is unsure of her career plans at this point, but intends to join the peace corps or similar avenue after undergrad and ultimately wants a career that “makes a difference”, likely in the area of environmental justice. Grad school is likely.</p>

<p>Totally agree that college is a place to grow. And I definitely want her to be in an environment that fosters that growth as much as possible. I’m pretty much letting her be her own guide on this issue. She knows her comfort zone better than anyone else - always has. And she feels very, very strongly about attending a small, insular LAC where she can pursue her love of learning and grow her passion for social justice, ideally surrounded by like minded intellectual nerdy types :smile: . If she changes her mind and decides to let loose in college (which is entirely possible), then I’m sure she’ll have no trouble finding a place to party on any campus on her list. However, if she truly does want to avoid the party/frat scene and finds herself on a campus dominated by that culture, I think she knows she’s destined to be unhappy. I get to put forth some parameters with regard to FA, but she is the boss when it comes to choosing the environment that feels right for her. </p>

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<p>Hmmm, @Olavache‌, will definitely have to look in to Brandies. Not very far from here at all. Think we never considered it because of it’s location - D has gravitated toward small town/rural areas for the most part. </p>

<p>On our visit to Bryn Mawr and Haverford, it was pretty apparent that the two schools had a very close collaborative relationship. Less so with Swarthmore and UPenn. We both thought she would love Bryn Mawr - seemed like such a great match - even looks like Hogwarts and she’s a huge Harry Potter fan! But, she just did not see herself there. She thought it felt cold and a bit forlorn. I know, very subjective, but that’s how she felt. Swarthmore was her clear favorite of the 3. </p>

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<p>My D1 attended Dickinson. She also was not interested in Greek life or the party scene, and she had a great experience. A couple of specifics:</p>

<ul>
<li>When my daughter attended, they had the opportunity to pick a dorm (maybe dorm hall) with the students who had the same freshman seminar they did. This turned out to be a great choice. The students who picked this housing option tended to be more academically focused, and she made a lot of good friends that year. A bunch of them went on to make Phi Beta Kappa together. She said this is one of the best decisions she made at Dickinson. So if your D gets in and chooses Dickinson, keep this in mind.</li>
<li>My kid had great experiences on and off campus. She was able to do two different off campus semesters her junior year (one abroad in an unusual country, the study abroad office was really flexible in working with her), and one with the Washington Semester in DC that Dickinson participates in (interning at the State Department).</li>
<li>Dickinson has got it more together than some LACs regarding balancing the liberal arts education with also preparing students for working after graduation. As a parent I appreciated this. :slight_smile: And my D did get a great job after graduation where she has been very successful. Her friends pretty much all got jobs within a couple months of graduation – I know one struggled to break into her industry, but it is a tough area no matter what school you go to, and I think she did eventually end up working in her chosen field.</li>
</ul>

<p>I would encourage your D to apply, and go to accepted student days if she gets in. It may or may not be the right place for her, but worth keeping on her list.</p>

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<p>A caveat about Dickinson: I hear people say that Dickinson offers good aid, but in my experience this was not so. The need-based aid they offered us was no different than anyone else’s except Pomona’s (which was stratospheric), and their merit scholarships max out at 20 grand. So I’m always puzzled when people speak of Dickinson this way. @intparent? </p>

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<p>I wouldn’t whittle down just yet. Instead I would apply in priority. Since there’s a good degree of overlap in personality among the colleges on your daughter’s list many of her essays can be used and re-used with minor school-specific tweaks. </p>

<p>Therefore at this point she should plan to apply to Brown, Middlebury, Amherst, Williams and Kenyon. If she’s applying ED to Bowdoin or Swarthmore, she could hold off actually sending any other applications until she has the ED results – just have them mostly ready to go.</p>

<p>I’m kind of surprised at the prominence of several urban/suburban locations as I thought she was leaning more toward rural. I guess this reflects the impact of a good visit.</p>

<p>If she’s still looking for more mid-range likelies I’d consider at Smith and Hamilton. I believe Smith would be a near safety.</p>

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<p>@jkeil911, we didn’t apply for need based aid. D did get a merit scholarship of about $15K (she started college 6 years ago, so it covered more of the cost then than it would today!). They claim to meet 96% of student need (as they calculate it, of course). I can’t tell if the OP is eligible for a lot of aid, or just wants a lot of aid that probably won’t br provided by most colleges. I certainly would run the Net Price Calculator before applying anyplace.</p>

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<p>We do qualify for need based aid at all of the schools on D’s list - middle income but at the lower end. Not surprisingly, however, our budget of $15K is lower than the EFC indicated on many of their net price calculators. Dickinson, for example, comes in about $6K over that budget. Given it’s inclusion on Bloomberg’s list of “holy grail” colleges based on value and ROI, we thought it was potentially a scenario we could make work. It’s still more of a wild card than the need only schools, however, as it’s unclear what the final FA package will actually look like. </p>

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<p>This is a little out of her sweet spot, but what about Cook Honors College @ Indiana U of Pennsylvania? Essentially a small LAC embedded within a public university. Given her stats I’d say admission is likely enough to call it a near-safety, price is low even without merit aid, and merit aid is likely enough. Much closer to home than Morris or Canada, but admittedly without the small-campus coziness of a detached LAC.</p>

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<p>@momrath‌, we aren’t going to go the ED route. Comparing FA packages is important to us, and D is the type who likes to know all the facts before she commits to anything. Although she really likes many of these schools, she’s not in love with any one in particular. She will, however, apply early action to Dickinson, UVM, and Ohio Wesleyan (if she decides to add that one). Already has Mount Allison done and will get Morris done this week-end. Will go the Early evaluation route at Wellesley too, although I’m not sure I really see the value in that other than kinda sorta knowing ahead of time whether you kinda sorta will get in. I agree that prioritizing the other applications is going to be important as running out of time at this point is entirely possible. She’s a last minute kid - not working so great in this particular situation… sigh.</p>

<p>I know, location has been a sticking point in this search. Though she has a clear preference for small town (ideal is quaint New England village like Middlebury) or rural with lots of access to outdoor activity (like Williams and Kenyon), other factors come in to play that in some cases trump location - rigor of academics, programs in her areas of interest, FA, study abroad options, school mission focused on the common good… </p>

<p>With regard to the suburban schools, we haven’t visited Wellesley yet, so not sure if that’s a keeper or not. The appeal of Haverford and Swarthmore is the quaker heritage, quirky intellectual student body, and rigorous academics. I personally don’t think they are the best fit for her - location and weak in environmental studies - but she has had them on her radar since the beginning and hasn’t lost interest. Amherst kind of falls in to this category for her - she loves the town of Amherst itself, but the nearness to UMass gives it a “bigger”, feel. This is another iffy one - just didn’t win her over. </p>

<p>With regard to the small city schools, she’s still on the fence about Brown - loves the socially conscious yet laid back vibe, the open curriculum, the love of learning just for the sake of learning, but she admits she felt more than a little uncomfortable/scared on campus when we visited. Country mouse in the city kind of thing. She’s a big time vegan foodie, so the allure of going out to eat in Providence was a pull there. I get the feeling it’s where she would be comfortable in a few years, but may not be quite ready for it yet. Bates is not a likely candidate anymore due to location and party reputation. UVM - this one is on her list for practical reasons - likely to get in, very strong in her major (env science), great outdoor rec and honors program - basically her list needed more balance (and a public ivy seemed like it filled the gap). Burlington, like Providence, however is indeed intimidating to her. </p>

<p>So, in the small town/rural category, that leaves Bowdoin, Williams, Middlebury, Kenyon, Dickinson, and possibly Ohio Wesleyan. We’ve visited the first 3 and she loved the location of all of them - Williams a little less than the other two. Haven’t visited the last 3 so really not sure. </p>

<p>Just realized in typing all this, that you have helped me to help her prioritize her list - thank you! When filtering through location, it becomes a bit more clear where she would likely be most comfortable. </p>

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<p>Contrary to what she might think (or not), there are introverted kids at Brown, and the administration is conscientious of these kids. I think it’s a most accepting community of all types of kids.</p>

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<p>@DreamSchlDropout‌, ok so when I first read your post about Indiana U of Penn and did a quick look at the university itself, I thought “no way”. Then I went to the Cook Honor’s College site and was blown away! If I had to describe the “fit” my daughter is looking for in a college, Cook pretty much nails it. And it’s located in a smallish town to boot. </p>

<p>Thank you for suggesting. Definitely worth serious consideration.</p>