Strength of schedule - how much does it really matter?

DD is starting to narrow down the college list and we are trying to figure out safety/match/reach (guidance department is not helpful and does not have Naviance). Some of the colleges we visited said they consider strength of schedule.

DD is in the IB diploma program and will have 4 HL and 2 SL classes/exams, 3-4 AP, 2 college classes and several honors classes completed by graduation. Should have about a 3.7-3.8 UW GPA (4.0 in the AP classes) with lower grades in freshman year. IB is significantly harder and more time consuming than the AP classes. She has a job and some good activities and leadership positions and a 1540 SAT.

Does her GPA make schools like Brown, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Tufts, Georgetown, Carnegie realistically out of the question (are they worth the time/effort to apply)? How about Case Western, Northeastern, Rochester, Wake, GW?

Thanks for your help!

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Does your high school use Naviance or Scoir? It can be helpful to see the stats of other students from your specific high school. At our high school, which is not IB, a 3.7 would have better chances at the second tier you listed. Thus far, from the schools on your list, my son was rejected from Northwestern and accepted at CWRU with a 3.87/4.67/1570/36.

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Thanks. Congrats on CWRU!

We are in a very large school district and they don’t have Naviance or any other tracking type system which is making the process difficult.

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Have you looked at the Common Data Sets for the schools that you are asking about? Sections C7 and C9-C11 may have some information that will give you some perspective (Sections C9-C11 give data for matriculated students at the respective schools).

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The 1540 SAT will help.

All those schools you list will look at rigor.

If you have the most rigorous schedule, that helps. Having a test, in most cases at top schools help - if it’s a good test - but plenty are applyng TO. So a 1540 is a check box in the positive for you.

GW will be an in - but demonstrate interest. Case could be a match but they reject kids like yours, Tufts if you are full pay elevates your odds (they are need aware), and Carnegie Mellon depending on the major. None are easy = one just needs to look at acceptance rates.

Some will depend on major (school dependent) and quality of ECs, essays, and LORs - so hopefully they’re up to snuff. Another thing is applying early where you can - NEU and CWRU for example.

You definitely need more matches beyond GW. Rochester and Wake are possible but I would still say reaches - low reaches.

What is she studying?

How is the financial situation - as some of these schools offer zero merit aid. So if you want money but don’t qualify for need based aid, you’d need to refine the list.

Good luck.

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Looking at the common data set is problematic for GPA. Lack of standardization amongst both HS’s and colleges, considering what classes matter and don’t mater make it really difficult to get anything more than a directional view.

In lieu of having Naviance or other school reporting tool. Try to get a feel for where your D sits in relation to her HS peers. How does her schedule match up would it be considered the most rigorous? Where does she sit class ranking wise? Even though a lot of schools are moving away from any ranking, she likely knows where she sits. Top 5? Top 5%? Top 10%, 25% etc.

What becomes more important is fit, with her SAT score I think she has a shot at all the schools, but there is a big difference between Brown, Georgetown and Carnegie Melon. She needs to figure out which of those schools are a fit for her and them demonstrate why she is a good fit for that school.

Isn’t the standard full load for IB 3 HL and 3 SL? If your D is taking 4 HL, there should be no issue with strength of schedule.

With IB I don’t see a rigor issue - nor an SAT issue (well major dependent).

But with these schools, that’s part of the story - there’s the ECs most importantly and essays and LORs - most the schools mentioned reject a lot more really smart, engaged kids than they accept - so the student needs to show through interest (where it’s considered) and essays why they are a good fit. And @Novacat9191 is right that they need to focus on fit and not just names or demographics (mid size, etc.) as culture, major requirements and other things are different everywhere.

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Really appreciate the insight! We are full pay, but merit would definitely be nice. ED is an option if she truly has a top pick and EA wherever possible. Major will be probably a science or psychology but still figuring that out. 3-4 state schools are on the list too with at least 2 with 60-80% acceptance rates.

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What state are you in? What type of school would be a fit? What are her safeties? What is your hard budget? These might add context and help with suggestions.

Based on potential major I’m assuming grad school is a must. Saving money and going to a school outside T20 might work better.

The schools on your list are all reaches even for 4.0 students. Your D has taken a rigorous schedule so that should help. Also, I think some schools don’t look at freshman grades.

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That’s pretty much the problem we are having making the list. If rigor doesn’t really matter and the CDS information is on point, we’d have a better sense but the info sessions we’ve attended all say rigor matters and a holistic process (just not sure how true this is).

Our district has several high schools and the IB program is the most difficult (about 5% of the total district-wide class) . They don’t rank. In IB guessing she’s probably in the top 20% but that’s really just a guess.

We’ve visited most of the schools but still need to get to a few. Interested in mostly a mid-size school located in or near a city with a good science program.

Yes 3/3 is standard but they allow 4HL/2SL. She has a double science.

If they (the state school safeties) are affordable and she’d like attending, then you’re all set.

A safety must be both - not just affordable and an easy in. They must be happy to attend - or shouldn’t be on your safety list. btw - lots of state schools all over the country offer awesome merit aid - and most today have Honors Colleges - which can take a huge school and make it smaller. But there’s wonderful mid size state schools too - like where my daughter chose over higher ranked schools - College of Charleston where she’s both a Fellow and an International Scholar (and dad pays no tuition and we are OOS - that’s just an added bonus).

The first thing - in my belief - one must do is to set a budget. I’m full pay as well - so when we took the Georgetown tour and my daughter loved it - all I heard was need based only. So it was out - and I told my daughter once we got home a few days later. That took Cornell and Tufts off her list too. We were at WUSTL for my son - and they push push push push the heck out of ED and I said - what if I don’t like the offer. And they said if you can’t afford it we’ll release you. And I said - it’s not can I afford it, it’s do I want to afford it? For me, the answer was no. So my daughter applied to 21 schools - and all 21 offered the opportunity of merit. Once we got her 17 acceptances we sat down - and I left any on the table that were $50K or less. That eliminated American (originally her top choice but she had zero beefs with it gone), Miami and more.

So if merit matters - you need to lose Tufts, Gtown and Brown - because there is none. Now a Vandy has but it’s not easy but they have - so that’s the kind you can keep. CMU doesn’t meet need…but i’d look at each school.

But a Tufts can be replaced with a Brandeis for example…or if you’re open to moving - a Rice, etc. - so if you are lucky enough to get in, there’s at least the “possibility” of merit, even if it’s small.

You might look at schools a notch below - because where you are superior is where you get money - so you may get into a Wake or Rochester but you are just another great student - whereas at an SMU you are above board - if that makes sense.

Don’t turn away great publics too - from your UFs (cheap) but big to Pitt, FSU, Indiana, Miami Ohio, South Carolina, Alabama, Arizona - all with fine Honors Colleges, merit - sometimes great. Or if you want mid size, let us know.

The fact that you have state schools on the list - I think that makes your list fine - but look into not if you need merit - but you want it - ie you don’t want to pay $360K for Tufts…and as was also brought up, that you are looking a fit - but in addition to curriculum types, you’ll also get a feel as you walk campuses, talk to people, etc.

Good luck.

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Very true and will try to focus more on that. She has definitely taken a bunch off the list because of fit. The list seems to not match but she likes something about all of them although fewer required classes would be nice. Hoping to narrow down the reaches to avoid all those essays!

You’ll find many essays are duplicative - I think my daughter used four or six for 90% of the schools - customizing a little.

If she wants an open curriculum, here’s some - some of which you’ve already noted. Grinnell gives merit - if the plains are ok :slight_smile: There’s other lists too.

Open Curriculum Colleges | Guide to Colleges with Open Curriculums (educationconnection.com)

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When the GC sends transcripts they typically include a school profile outlining the schools rigor. AO’s can determine pretty quickly where your D stands.

I think you’re overthinking this. The schools on your list admit 10% or less. Apply to a few knowing it’s a long shot. If they aren’t affordable don’t bother applying. Waste of time.

It’s easy finding reach schools. The real effort is finding affordable schools that are a good fit. Your D will land in a great spot. Good luck.

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Rigor really matters. You are supposed to take the most rigorous schedule you can without slipping into the A- range, ideally. Or some As and some A- s, especially if those rigorous courses are available at your school. At all these places, especially the private schools, the narrative (essay etc) will make a large difference. You need a coherent narrative. What is the desired major?

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Thanks everyone - really appreciate the input. Positive I’m overthinking all of this :slight_smile: Just difficult to figure out somewhat of a plan with an understaffed and overworked guidance department.

Grad school is probably in the plan so stretching the dollars would be nice. State schools are definitely an option especially with an honors program if it’s a fit for her. National Merit scholarships should hopefully be in the mix too.

Appreciate the thoughts on other schools too. Minimum requirements are at least mid-size, no further south than TN or NC, east of the Mississippi River, not a lot of required classes and near a city.

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Just so I am clear, when does your daughter plan to matriculate in college?

The reason I asked for a major is because some grad schools don’t cost anything. Depending on the major.