Striving for innovation: physics, engineering, and medicine

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Hello CC community,</p>

<p>Currently, I'm a first-year undergrad planning to major in Physics at a top-notch (I think) liberal arts school. However, I am planning to apply to Columbia's Fu Foundation of Engineering through the 3-2 Combined Plan Program at my college, most likely to study Biomedical Engineering. I plan to actively engage in physics research, and my ultimate career goal is pursuing an MD/PhD degree and becoming an innovator (by pursuing a more unique path).</p>

<p>Many -- professors, a renowned neurosurgeon who visited my school, and peers -- have doubted the effectiveness of my path, arguing the rarity of my curriculum path and the difficulties I must face academically (and time wise). I still wish to follow this path regardless, but I'd also like to hear MORE OPINIONS, perhaps to INSPIRE a more fresh perspective in me. Please be aware, though, that I am rock-solid about my passion in physics, engineering, and medicine at the moment, but maybe things can change.</p>

<p>I have spoken to my advisors and career center staff, as well as read numerous articles and posts on medical school preparation. I understand the nature of liberal arts and experimentation, and I also comprehend the fact that not everything can be planned in its entirety. But this is how my problem goes.</p>

<p>Given my goals, I must comply with four requirement "sets":
a) general education expectations
b) my BA physics major
c) the pre-plan requirements for BME at Columbia
----this can help <a href="http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/webfm_send/222%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/webfm_send/222&lt;/a>
d) medical school requirements.
All of these completed in three years (maybe med requirements in five). I'll be doing REUs for first and second-year summers, so summer session/courses are out of the question. Third-year summer will probably be intro pure engineering courses I have to take for 3-2.</p>

<p>I have drawn a tentative schedule on a spreadsheet, but I'm still in a pinch.</p>

<p>My current courses (first year):
Fall:
Organic Chem I + concurrent lab (which I took upon instructor recommendation)
Gen Phys I (intro newtonian phys with calculus)
Multivariable Calc (upon placement exam + AP CalcBC 5)
English course</p>

<p>Spring:
Organic II + concurrent lab
Gen Phys II (electromag with calculus - intro course)
Linear Algebra (highly theoretical and proof-based; not vectors/matrices computational)
Philosophy course</p>

<p>Quite astonishingly, I've managed to stash a 4.0 first semester. I was very surprised and glad, of course.</p>

<p>My question lies in the fact that I have managed to follow Orgo surprisingly well, and my background in inorganic chemistry is deeply enrooted from high school (AP and a bit more), but technically speaking, I require the inorganic chemistry credit on my transcript for med-school.</p>

<p>Bad news is that I can't take gen/inorganic chem next year, since I have to do my biology + lab next year, also for requirements (though I also took AP Bio, which is obviously not considered for its 'high-school level'). I'm also continuing physics & pre-3-2, onto Waves, Quantum, Programming, IntroEcon, DiffEquations</p>

<p>So, speaking to the point, the questions:
1. About English courses, MUST I take TWO ENGLISH courses? Or can these "writing or comparative literature" courses be in other departments, like Russian, German, Spanish, Philosophy, etc (other Humanities and SocialSci)?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Given the restrictive nature of my curriculum, MUST I take inorganic chemistry as a set of year-long intro courses? (Although, I can't seem to fit TWO SEMESTERS (only one) in my curriculum any longer, just to not strain myself too much. I'm already doing 4.5~5.5 classes a semester, regular is 4 at my school) Is my AP credit really invalid? Doesn't having taken Orgo first-year explain for itself that I have a strong chemistry background, thus rendering unnecessary to take Gen Chem? Or am I to pursue higher-level inorganic (or organic/biochem?) to complete the "second-year" of chemistry requirements?</p></li>
<li><p>Is it compulsory to take Biochemistry and/or Statistics? Consider that I'm applying to med-school 4 years after today...</p></li>
<li><p>Where should I allot my TWO MAX possible AP credits? Options:</p></li>
<li><p>Two credits in CHEM141/142 for B(+) in Organic
OR</p></li>
<li><p>One credit in BIOL181 (intro bio genetics/heredity part, I believe)
AND/OR</p></li>
<li><p>One credit in ENGL (Lang or Lit)
AND/OR</p></li>
<li><p>One credit for Philosophy</p></li>
</ol>

<p>5a. How is PHYSICS viewed from a medical school admissions perspective?
5b. How is LIBERAL ARTS viewed from a medical school admissions perspective?
5c. How is ENGINEERING viewed from a medical school admissions perspective?</p>

<ol>
<li>When should I start my MCAT preparation? Any great suggestions for initial leads?</li>
</ol>

<p>As you might notice, basically the best way to ease my academic curriculum would be by reducing the number of courses I have to take compulsorily, thus giving me the chance to a) best enjoy liberal arts, b) still be technically ready for my later studies (eng&med), and c) taking electives I'd like! :)</p>

<p>Excuse the caps, it's only to emphasize on what I'd like to have responded.
Please do share your opinion regarding my career, my course plan, and my standing in general. It would be very helpful to hear your constructive criticism. I am open-minded to these suggestions and would like to best improve my career based upon my passion/intellectual curiosity for the sciences and my inspiration to be innovative from following a more unique (or is it common?) academic path.</p>

<p>Sorry for the long post, but I deem it necessary for you to understand my background and my academic attitude.</p>

<p>Thank you for your time! I'll be looking forward to your helpful responses.</p>

2

<p>

</p>

<p>It appears you chose to attend an undergrad college with very restrictive policies concerning AP credit. When you made this choice, then you agreed to do things their way. I entered college with 55 AP credits and my college accepted all of them and entered them on my transcript. This means that after my first three semesters, I now have 107 credits(an academic senior) and will spend the next 5 semesters taking mostly classes that <em>I</em> want to take. I say this not for the OP but for anyone else contemplating these issues who has not already made a choice of undergraduate college.</p>

<p>OP, there are two distinct issues with your AP classes. You state that you are only allowed “two credits” from AP classes( I assume you mean AP exams?), and that this is the max. they will enter on your transcript. Secondarily, do they then give advanced placement for your other AP classes? (IOW, they allow you to move on without giving you credit for the AP class). In both of these cases, you should not retake classes that you have already mastered (i.e. got a 5 on the exam). You should instead take a more advanced class. This is the advice from every MS admin/adcom person I have ever talked to in person. If your school does not allow advanced placement, well then :(</p>

3

<ol>
<li><p>Definitely don’t have to take courses from the english department specifically, as long as they are writing intensive they will count (e.g. I used courses for my Classics major to satisfy this requirement). I imagine the Columbia core is enough.</p></li>
<li><p>See plumazul/your college’s advisor, every school has different AP requirements and all med school cares about is that you have COURSE CREDIT.</p></li>
<li><p>Many schools require biochem, few require statistics, although if you’re interested in MD/PhD and thus research as an undergrad, statistics is a very useful course for your own knowledge and being selected for research spots.</p></li>
<li><p>Can’t answer this for you</p></li>
<li><p>Med schools don’t care what you major in. They just care that they can envision you as a physician. MSTPs want to envision you as a physician scientist and so you need research but similarly, doesn’t really matter what field as long as you can portray yourself as they want to see you (a physician scientist, not just a physician who does research).</p></li>
<li><p>If you want to go straight out, my personal recommendation is to just bang it all out summer after sophomore year (I guess it also depends on your EC/course loads during the school year because maybe some point during junior year is easier for you). The bottom line is you need to take the test by the end of the spring before your app cycle starts. Depending on whether you take it during the summer or the school year, your prep need only start 2-6 months prior at most. Plumazul likes to advocate the slow burn study method and would probably advocate you start reviewing orgo and physics, but with your heavy schedule, i imagine a cram period later on will be more effective for you.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I have no idea what the Fu program is and don’t really have time to look it up, but physics to MD/PhD isn’t exactly mind blowing innovation. With nuclear medicine and imaging becoming so popular, lots of physics and engineering oriented people are doing research in medicine. Don’t forget to make sure you do enough ECs to prove you can be a doctor too, otherwise no MD/PhD is going to take you regardless of how good your science is.</p>

4

<p>It is great that you plan ahead. However, planning to enter MD/PhD at this point of your life is way premature. Programs are very selective, I would say, that this type of planning should occur after receiving your MCAT score. I know one person in MD/PhD. His MCAT=41 (exceptionally rare). As far as I know in regard to preparing for MCAT, most start preparing few weeks before exam. However, it migh depend on your load. As my own D. was extremely busy in her college Junior year, she started in October for May exam. She said it worked for her perfectly. She also mentioned that having MCAT right after Physics, Physiology and Genetics is helpful. That long period is and exception, most advise to prep. for about 5-6 weeks right before exam, spending few hours on a daily basis.
I believe you are putting too much pressure on yourself and looking way too ahead. Your priority as of now is getting as perfect GPA as possible, getting awesome Medical and other EC’s, develop as a person and definitely enjoy your time at college. You will not have this opportunity later, it will be much more work for you in Med. School, tons and tons. Relax now, go to game, spend time with friends. Remember, you will have to go thru interviews at each stage of your life. they are looking for real people, who had some fun in their lives.</p>

5

<p>

Indeed, I agreed to this, but most colleges I had applied to had similar policies, and yet, I am not too concerned by the limited nature of the registrar’s policies. Orgo and Multivariable Calculus/Linear are definitely courses just at my level of chemistry and mathematics, respectively.</p>

<p>

Two credits means two of my school’s credits, which is two semester courses. They would enter the transcript like this:
Say I chose AP Biology for credit, then it would say something like “BIOLAP 1.0
The legend clearly indicates that the biology credit comes from AP – for most medical schools this would render useless, since they “do not accept” AP credit. Is that correct?”
If so, I guess I might move on towards more advanced chemistry, like Integrated Chem Lab, Advanced Organic Synthesis, Biochem, Organometallic, or P-Chem. For biology, though, given that my AP course was a long time ago, I might simply go for the intro courses 181/182 next year.</p>

<p>

Courses in depts like Philosophy are writing-intensive if they have a series of short papers and a final long paper, is that correct? Would that count?</p>

<p>

Course credit… so if I get the two semester credits for CHEM 141/142 from AP, which requires that I have a B or more in my organic chemistry courses, does that count for gen. chem?</p>

<p>

I heard the MCAT has a two-year validity time period. If I take it during sophomore year, I believe it wouldn’t serve a purpose since I would be applying to MSTP on my spring 5th year (at Columbia). Would taking it junior year work fine?</p>

<p>

I am not taking this personally at all, but I’d like to share that I am enjoying college very much! Of course, I am maintaining a balance between academics and fun at college. I am doing intramural sports and have joined student groups (namely, dance crew)… and of course, I do enjoy college life on weekends and so on. I am doing this for my own sake, and to me, studying is an enjoyable learning process, but that does not mean I do not value direct, personal experience from simply spending time with other people!</p>

<p>Thank you for your advice. If you can reply, go ahead and please do! The more I hear, the better I’ll be able to sort it out!</p>

6

<p>

</p>

<p>Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on your school’s policies.</p>

<p>Most schools have a list of courses that are considered “writing intensive” and will fulfill your school upper level writing requirement. The list of acceptable courses should be available at the school’s writing center.</p>

<p>Other schools offer an add-on writing portion to certain upper level classes to fulfill writing requirements. (And the class needn’t necessarily be a traditional term paper-based class. D2 fulfilled her writing requirement through an add-on to one of her senior math classes.)</p>

<p>At still other schools, a senior honors thesis will fulfill the second writing requirement.</p>

<p>The most important thing is to check the policies at your school since it’s your school which must certified (via your transcript) that you’ve met their requirements for 2 semesters of writing credits.</p>

<p>RE: AP credit. While AP scores may give you credit for the lecture portion of a science class, it usually will not give you lab credits. You will still need to have lab credits for 4 semesters of chem and two semesters of bio to eligible for medical school admission.</p>

7

<p>I just thought of one other thing, OP.</p>

<p>While you will likely be taking your MCAT before 2015, you may be applying to enter medical school for summer/fall 2016.</p>

<p>While you have your 5 year scheduled planned and it look workable–you need to consider that:</p>

<p>1) the MCAT exam is being revised and will include more and different material starting Jan 2015. The new MCAT will include a broader array of biology topics, including cellular and molecular bio, genetics and biochem. Additionally, it will include a whole new section on human behavior (covering psychology, sociology and ethics).</p>

<p>2) Starting 2016, medical schools may have different admission requirements that they do currently. Because of this, you will need to keep in contact with your college’s health professions advisor to see how these changes will affect your plans.</p>