<p>I can't think of two majors with fewer electives allowed than BFA MT and engineeering! Not much crossover in those two disciplines, either. I'm guessing, as Soozie has stated, that the the double major would not be possible with this combination. My H earned a B Arch, and when he returned to the same school for an engineering degree, there was very little that he was able to use from the B Arch & apply toward engineering. I can't imagine your son would have more crossover with BFA type offerings.</p>
<p>I'm also seeing that some colleges give the impression that much flexibility is possible with area college consortiums and the like. Upon examination, these offerings can be quite limited. It's a wise idea to ask very specific questions, complete with details about actual schedules & semester offerings.</p>
<p>I'm interested in what the career plans are for the obviously very intelligent and talented student who is thinking about the engineering-MT major. Does that person plan to pursue the performing arts, or plan to become an engineer? Or maybe become an engineer and take some performing arts jobs on the side? I am intrigued.</p>
<p>Brit - I reread carefully your post. Your son is "interested" in renewable energy but MT is his "passion". I can totally understand that. I think Michael and Soozie and NMR have done a great job of presenting the time restraints and problems of pursuing both disciplines. </p>
<p>MT is also my D's passion. There is nothing in the world (as of now) that she could imagine loving more. But if MT doesn't return her passion or if the unimaginable happens and she decides the other career path looks better she wants to keep her options open. </p>
<p>She enrolled for first semester college - all acting, voice and dance classes. She compared with her friends taking physics, history, math, etc and she started to panic. She questioned whether she would be behind academically if she later decided to pursue the other major. I pointed out that she was entering college with well over a semester's credit carryover from high school in academics. In essence this was a "free" semester to pursue whatever she wanted. It made absolute sense to pursue MT courses and see if the rigor of that continued to be her passion. If in fact during the 1st semester she decided MT just wasn't for her nothing would be lost - she would end up with a semester of electives fulfilled.</p>
<p>I think that if a student knows that this is truly what they want to do and understand fully and realistically the risks and benefits of the business, that is enough. My parents were in the same position when my sister (and later myself) expressed our desires to major in MT. I know I speak for both of us when I say that their decision to support us in our choices meant the world. Of course it is understandable that you want your child to have the best possible college experience and life after college with as few risks as possible. THAT is good parenting at work. </p>
<p>Also, as has been said before, changing one's mind and going back to school is ALWAYS a possibility (my mom and dad majored in journalism and phys. ed. repectively and have been priests for a combined 30 years). </p>
<p>That said, in reference to the first post of this thread way back when, I was the little boy who wanted to be a baseball player and here I am posting on musical theater forums : )</p>
<p>Thanks to all of you for your great wisdom and insight. Yes, even the instructors at my son's performing arts high school do not quite understand why my son would not completely pursue MT and forget engineering school. His words to me and I quote are "I cannot depend on being a starving artist for a dependable living, I need a back up". He attends a school that goes from 8am to 5pm every day with academic and conservatory classes. Somehow (and I dont know how) he is able to carry 3 AP classes (calculus, biology and spanish) and be in rehearsal for a show where he is the lead and do dance classes twice a week on top of that. Maybe what we need to look at is an engineering degree with a MT minor. He is at BTP (Broadway Theatre Project) for the next 3 weeks at the Univ. of S. Florida and I understand that many colleges send reps to market their programs to the students. Hopefully we will get some of this sorted out before time to send in applications.</p>
<p>britbrat, I know many students in BFA in MT programs, including my own child, who ALSO were/are very high achievers academically. Your son would not be unique in a BFA program in the sense of being a very strong academic student. Others may not be strong academic students. As well, your son may be attracted to BFA in MT programs that are located within more academically selective universities (my kid ideally wanted that and got it). Lots of kids take very challenging academic courses in HS, get top grades, while balancing training (outside the school day) and being in productions. Kudos to your son for handling that. </p>
<p>The issue in my opinion, for your son is whether or not to pursue a BFA in MT or a BA degree program. It sounds like your son wants to be able to pursue two fields and for the most part, that is a more viable and appropriate path if he does a BA, and not a BFA. He could still go on in the field of theater if he wishes. In my view, the students most suitably fit for a BFA path are those who primarily want to focus on Theater/MT and not have flexible options. They may have a minor with it at some schools. </p>
<p>Same with engineering....it is a kind of college degree program that requires a commitment before enrolling and a huge primary focus of one's studies. Often a minor is possible but rarely a double major with this kind of degree program. </p>
<p>Another option for your son is to go to a BA school and not do engineering but double major in a department that focuses on renewable energy and conservation and environment and so forth and also major in theater. Both majors would be about 35% of his coursework or combined, about 70%. But an engineering degree OR a BFA in MT are both programs requiring huge commitments that also involve about 65% of the coursework that are all required courses with no flexibility. A BFA is truly meant for those who are prepared to make a total commitment to MT and not equally pursue something like engineering. Your son's interests more closely align with someone who should seek a BA path.</p>
<p>Thanks soozievt. I think I am getting all confused with the terminology of the different degrees. Could you please give me your candid opinion about the dual degree program offered at Univ of Mich. Here is the link:</p>
<p>UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Dual Degree Programs</p>
<p>I have seen the link but I feel you need to talk to the school directly. I feel doubtful that the BFA in MT could be combined with engineering. I know the schedule that the BFA in MT students keep and it doesn't mesh with engineering. Maybe it is meant to be five or six years? Maybe that dual degree is more for the BMs in music students and not the BFAs in MT? You'd have to ask. I would ask the BFA in MT program itself at UMich, and not simply ask about dual degrees with MUSIC.</p>
<p>I can tell you that at most other schools, an engineering degree combined with a BFA in MT would not be possible. And even if it IS possible at UMich......the BFA in MT program admissions is a real LONG shot, even for highly talented kids. The admit rate is very low (estimate of about 5%). If this is the path your child wants (both engineering and a BFA in MT), I don't think he is going to have a large enough list of schools that will permit this. </p>
<p>I think, again, his most viable path if he wants BOTH studies....is either an engineering degree with a theater minor (example, at Tufts, Cornell) or else do a double major in two BA programs.....one related to energy/conservation or environmental studies and one in theater (example, Middlebury, Brown). A BFA in MT is truly not meant for someone who wants to EQUALLY pursue something else, or at least not a degree program with the level of requirements that engineering degrees entail.</p>
<p>Not sure if this adds anything, but at the U of Mich auditions this past winter/spring, someone asked Brent Wagner how many MTs double major in anything and he said it was a very, very small number, perhaps one or two out of every other class or so, and most of those kids did double majors that coalesced more easily with MT/drama, such as English and literature. Again, not saying it cannot be done.</p>
<p>I looked through the links & saw no mention of a BFA MT possibility. Nobody would question the quality of Michigan for either engineering or the arts, but the website strongly suggests calling to get the specifics of whatever dual degree prospective students might be considering. Even for the combined BS Engineering/BA or BFA (non MT) programs, Michigan states that it could take six years to complete. Your son may be fine with that, but he may be itching to get undergrad studies completed before that timeframe allows. Engineering employers usually expect new grads to have completed some type of co-op, or research, or internship during thier school years. That's another consideration. MT employment may be all about the audition, but it's also important to have the polishing that goes along with frequent auditioning & performing. There are only 24 hours in a day.</p>
<p>I read Michigan's website the same way you do - that it's possible. I don't know how they do it but it does say it is possible. I'm sure at the top of the page under Michigan you could connect with some current Michigan students and get their assessment based on their day to day MT lives how in reality this would work. With your son's grades I am almost certain UM would invite him to audition. </p>
<p>The problem is it's one of the most competitive programs in the nation. I'd never advise anyone to not apply to multiple schools especially after this last year. And I'm not talking just BFAs but all colleges for general admission where students that a few years ago looked like shoe-ins and because of the abundance of applicants didn't get in some colleges. </p>
<p>I think for almost every other BFA MT at any other school other than UM you will find what is written above as the situation. I know what you are saying about having a multi-task expert. Keeping up with academics including AP classes, constant rehearsals and performances, community service, multiple lessons, a job - if I had l/2 the energy of a high school kid OMG what I could do. But I really think it's different in college.</p>
<p>UM</a> School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Department of Musical Theatre<br>
On the MT page:
"In fact, Michigan offers a rare dual degree program in which you can work on the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree simultaneously"</p>
<p>I am only GUESSING but I am thinking that the dual degree program at Mich between Engineering and the Music school is more for BA or BM MUSIC students and not BFA in MT students. </p>
<p>I just looked at Northwestern (which isn't even a BFA in MT actually), and their dual degree program with Envronmental Engineering with the MUSIC school (a BA or BM degree program) is five years. No mention of a dual combo with the theater and MT certificate program. </p>
<p>I do believe that engineering may be combined with a BA or a BM in music or theater in five years at many schools. What I don't think is going to be possible is to combine a BFA in MT and an engineering degree.</p>
<p>I also cannot emphasize enough that the most suitable candidates in terms of "fit" for a BFA degree program are those who wish to primarily focus on theater, with liberal arts or a minor mixed in. Those who want to equally focus on two things, are more suited to a BA path as a general rule of thumb. There may be exceptions such as going to NYU or UMich and doing a BFA and possibly double majoring in English or History, which also would be tough but is doable particularly with some AP credits. The more likely thing is a minor with a BFA in MT.</p>
<p>I also have no idea how the CLASS SCHEDULE would mesh with an engineering degree program and a BFA in MT program because BOTH are very INFLEXIBLE programs with MANY REQUIRED COURSES unlike most college majors. You must take a lot of classes in those programs and they are all outlined for you on a year to year basis and I don't know how you would mesh those together in the schedule, let alone be allowed to take that number of courses in a semester. My D is in a BFA program in MT and had nine classes at one time already per semester without engineering thrown in the mix. Those classes were all required.</p>
<p>Here is my concern. 550 audition for MT - as we know whether they accept 6 or 10 boys there are WAY WAY more talented boys auditioning than they can accept. Elimination must be horrible. What are they looking for - of course talent, type for their ensemble. And because of the demands of MT they are looking for drive and passion. They want to train talent that eventually will work in the business and make UM's MT dept look good. So if they are deciding between the kid that is 100% devoted to a life of nothing but MT and Brit's son who also has an interest in engineering - could that hurt Brit's son's chances? This was always a question for my D when she applied to a school for MT and she had an option of listing another major. Would they perceive that as a less than 100% commitment.</p>
<p>All good info. We will be traveling to Ann Arbor in August. I will have all of my questions ready for both programs at the college. Like many at my son's school (alumni Matt Morrison and Susan Egan being two) students start with great intentions of completing a degree program and when enticed with a lead on Broadway leave college to pursue that path. I guess all we can do is research to the best of our ability and see what the future holds. I will blog in when I return from out college visits to Univ. of Mich, Penn State, and Syracuse. It should be exciting and eye opening.</p>
<p>Since this has sequewayed (did I spell that correctly?) into talking about UMich I thought I'd chime in from my perspective as a mom watching her son figure all this out. He'll be a freshman at UMich this fall.</p>
<p>When my son decided to pursue MT last summer, he initially was CERTAIN he would double major. Absolutely certain. It was very important to him to pursue this degree in a traditional university setting and my husband and I fully backed that. He just has too strong of an interest in traditional academics to be comfortable in a full conservatory setting. As time passed and he got a clearer understanding of the time commitment a MT BFA requires he had second and third thoughts about double majoring. He has talked to a lot of students at UMich either in person when we visited this past April and through Facebook. The two of us also met a student in April who was a sophomore who finally had given up on double majoring, it was just too strenuous.</p>
<p>My son is an overachiever, always on the go. He has 22 credits heading into Michigan in the fall due to his APs, but he still doesn't think he can double major in 4 years. In 5, yes, but not in four. In a profession that values youth so highly, that 5th year is a BIG deal. So, he has decided to minor and graduate in 4 years. If after pursuing this profession after graduation he decides at a later date to work towards a second degree he'll be that much closer to that degree.</p>
<p>I honestly can't stress how much he has thought about all this, and he didn't let go of the double major idea without a struggle. Hopefully he'll see this thread and chime in himself as I'm sure I'm forgetting things.</p>
<p>Hope this helps in some way or another.</p>
<p>SeniorMom, thanks for chiming in...great post. I think a double major with a BFA in MT is very difficult to do, but perhaps not impossible at some schools. And it could take longer than four years OR you must come in with credits. But the big issue with britbrat's son is that the double major he wants is the professional degree program in MT (a BFA) and the credit intense major of engineering. And that combo does not seem possible to me. And surely not in four years. Your son is doing what I was suggesting which is a BFA in MT and a minor in something else. Or her son could major in engineering and minor in theater. Or do a double degree in two BA degree programs.</p>
<p>Thanks for that post. It really helps to hear everyone with their personal experiences to help sort all of this out. To your point about youth in the MT profession. I see many actors and actresses that don't "make it" until their mid-twenties. Do you think it different with a male vs female? My belief is that if the talent is there and the drive and motivation, that that talent will always be there. Barring an injury or illness, I would rather see a young person go to Broadway at 23 or 24 as opposed to 20 or 21 just for the benefit of some years of growing and maturing in preparation for a business that can be brutal. Any thoughts on that aspect? I am not opposed to a 5 year program or more as if one wants to pursue a masters, it would take longer than that. At a University such as Stanford on a trimester system, one can obtain a Masters degree in as little a 5 to 6 years. I know that the competition is much greater for the females in the MT world and I wonder if any one has thoughts on competition for males. My son is 6'2" and quite an accomplished singer and dancer, but has been told on several occasions that he looks too young for the part. At 17, I think he has a ways to go to play parts that require the look of an older person. Make-up can only do so much.</p>