<p>I'm looking for advice on MT schools regarding academics.</p>
<p>I'll start by saying that I've read many of the CC threads concerning "ranking" MT schools. I love the advice to choose a school according to best FIT, not an arbitrary ranking. That great advice has already made me feel better about the whole process of selecting a university.</p>
<p>My D is bright and does very well academically. I completely support her decision to pursue MT, her passion. My husband and I both have very technical backgrounds, so this world is new to us. We've learned the ropes along with our daughter during the past 8 years.</p>
<p>I am concerned that some MT programs do not seem to be very strong academically. In fact, some barely seem to have any academic requirements outside of the MT department. I want my daughter to have a well rounded education that will prepare her to succeed in life, not just in MT.</p>
<p>First question, is it realistic to expect a university to require some challenging coursework outside of the MT realm?</p>
<p>Second question, does anyone have an opinion on the academics at the following universities?:
Otterbein
Baldwin-Wallace
Western Michigan University
Point Park University</p>
<p>Trust me when I tell you that the there will be plenty of challenges within the musical theatre program. It isn’t all dancin’ and singin’ and actin’. And even if it were, these will be emotionally and intellectually challenging activities. I would caution you to not develop ideas as to what is academically challenging based on a series of courses that on the outset seem “simple.” Acting is a highly challenging activity, requires hours of study, reading, theory and an intellectual and emotional understanding well beyond that which is necessary for many classes. I can make similar arguments for other kinetically based studio classes. The history, literature and criticism necessary in order to have the tools for success are vast and there is little time to learn them. Therefore, those classes are often quite challenging. Music Theory and script analysis have sent more than one good student to the edge. By and large, good artists are intellectually curious, motivated, entrepreneurial and educated people. </p>
<p>Most universities will require some core classes outside of the department. Those classes will run the gamut from the quite easy to the very difficult. The majority will be challenging depending on the student and their choices. </p>
<p>I will avoid saying anything about the academics at any other institution. I would suggest to you that unless you are hearing currently faculty, staff or students at one of the above institutions the opinions will be of dubious worth. And even if you are, the class and professor have as much (or more) to do with the level of the perceived challenge of the course as do the intellectual strengths of the student.</p>
<p>I am fairly new at posting so bear with me. I have been reading for about a year, just not posting.
I believe that your question is about classes outside of MT, such as English, Math etc.
When talking about a BFA in Musical Theatre, I have not found many courses outside of the ones in that dept. I just pulled up Otterbein and they list INST Writing and INST Western Experience as Freshmen level classes. I am not sure what these are, but I don’t believe they would be high level courses in the English and History departments.
In my research it looks like that at most schools. The BFA is more like a conservatory approach with most classes in the theatre/music department. I could be wrong (other posters?)
I guess if I wanted a very academic program for my D, with lots of classes in other departments, I might consider a school like Northwestern.
I don’t believe you were saying that the classes in Musical Theatre would not be challenging.</p>
<p>The “core” courses required by universities are what I was referring to. I wasn’t very clear on that. Some universities require very few core courses and this concerns me. It seems to me that there are just some things that every adult should know or have been exposed to. Business concepts, science, public speaking, etc.</p>
<p>I think I’m seeing that conservatories, by their nature, have fewer requirements for non-major classes than liberal arts universities. Is this accurate?</p>
<p>And to further clarify my position, I have no misconceptions about the difficulty, challenges or time required in the MT major. You would never catch me on stage. Just give me a math problem to solve!</p>
<p>Muse3, we must have replied at the same time. </p>
<p>Otterbein’s INST classes are Integrative Studies and they are part of the core curriculum, in addition to math and language. I was very impressed with Otterbein’s committment to a well-rounded education. We need graduates to see the whole picture. I guess that’s the liberal arts concept that appeals to me.</p>
<p>Having said that, most schools have room for enough electives for students to schedule these types of classes for themselves. But will they? I don’t think most students would sign up for Natural Sciences as an elective. I personally took Bowling my senior year!! (It’s a life skill, right?)</p>
<p>You will find the curriculum you are looking for at Indiana University. In addition to all the theatre, voice, dance, and related classes for the MT BFA, students are required to take traditional liberal arts classes including math and foreign language. Students in the BA program have room for even more classes outside their major.</p>
<p>You will generally find the curricula for BFA programs posted on the theatre department websites for most schools. As a general rule, BFA programs are very structured and sequenced so that, among other things, you can see from the posted curriculum the “space” allotted to classes outside of the department. In conjunction with this, you can investigate the quality of the liberal arts/science offerings as you would any other school. One thing to look for that can be unique to a conservatory style BFA program is whether the non-theatre courses are offered through an all encompassing “liberal arts department” as opposed to separate departments specializing in the particular field of study. Schools like BOCO and UArts, which are arts colleges/universities, structure their liberal arts very differently than full blown liberal arts universities that also house a conservatory type of theatre program. That is not to say that the former can not be a challenging and meaningful substantive learning experience in liberal arts. The latter, however, is likely going to have a more fully developed advanced curriculum in a particular field of liberal arts study.</p>
<p>That being said, one thing to question in depth at any school, whether an arts university or a full liberal arts college, is whether in practical terms the students in the BFA program really have the flexibility in their schedules to avail themselves of the diversity of liberal arts offerings at any school. Because the BFA curriculum is usually heavily structured and because of the time commitments outside of class for crew, rehearsals etc, it can be very tough to fit liberal arts classes into the time slots that are actually available in a BFA student’s daily schedule. The available sections may not line up with the spaces in the daily schedule of the mandated BFA curriculum (where specific sections/class times, not simply the course are actually assigned) with the result that in practical terms, what appears to be broad liberal arts opportunities at some schools may not actually exist for a BFA student. It’s very important to ask questions of school and department reps and of current students to get a good understanding of this.</p>
<p>I thought the OP’s question was interesting and I looked it up at my son’s college. His is a conservatory program at a small university. When I first looked at the music school the course listings were all music classes, but I know he’d taken many other types of classes (he’s a senior this year) then i realized that they were listing the courses for the major only and the students were required to take the general curriculum also, which includes, English,
Math, History, Science, etc. which are listed elsewhere. So while you are checking out these MT programs online, make sure you check and see if the course listings are specific to the MT program and there are probably general education requirements also.</p>
<p>Core requirements range from non-existant upwards to the neighborhood of 45 credits. Most departments won’t list those requirements on the departmental websites. I can’t speak for Otterbein in specifics, but I do know that in addition to the rigors of the program their students take a full compliment of core classes. Same is true at Michigan, Baldwin Wallace, and many others. To be perfectly honest, the majority of questions I get about the program is how to avoid core classes. A question for us that is a red flag concerning academics. It is nice to see someone suggesting that there should be more (or at least some) classes outside the department.</p>
<p>If you and/or your child are really concerned about a strong LA core, perhaps you should be looking more closely at BA programs rather than BFA.</p>
<p>MichelNKat is really correct when he posted the following:
… the BFA curriculum is usually heavily structured and because of the time commitments outside of class for crew, rehearsals etc, it can be very tough to fit liberal arts classes into the time slots that are actually available in a BFA student’s daily schedule.</p>
<p>My D’s MT school offers little in the way of general education classes, but I can tell you that she is working harder than she ever did at her rigorous middle and high schools. She is reading more critically, writing better papers, and stretching her brain every day. This is the stuff she LONGED to study, and she has thrown herself into it. Is she taking Physics, Calculus, Philosophy? No…but neither did I, and I am making enough of a living to pay $$$ for her BFA in MT. It isn’t all tap and voice, even at the tiny conservatories!</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore at Elon, where they definitely require a broad range of general ed classes. Freshmen are required to take stats, English, health and and something called global experiences. For graduation, students are required to take a variety of courses in literature, social sciences, a lab science and foreign language. Most Elon MTs have at least one true academic class (my son is taking a government class this semester) in addition to their arts classes.</p>
<p>We were in a similar position last year with our D who graduated at the top of her class, AP Scholar, etc. We found that several of the schools who accepted her had Honors Colleges or programs within the university. She chose to do the BFA-MT program at Pace U. for several reasons, one of them being the Honors College there. She’s taking classes that are really interesting to her, the Honors College has given her free tickets to two Broadway shows already this semester, they gave her a free lap top as part of her academic scholarship, and there are some really wonderful opportunities for the students simply because they are in NYC. She is so pleased that she chose Pace for the musical theatre side of the equation as well! I know this isn’t the thread for pros and cons for that part of the education so I’ll stop! Good luck! It’s a crazy but fun process!</p>
<p>I second Georgia - Elon is definitely a school you should look into. My son is an MT senior but is also in the Elon College Fellows academic program.</p>
<p>Acting students at Carnegie Mellon are encouraged to take a number of electives outside the Drama School. MT majors are considered double majors (Acting-MT) and have fewer opportunities to take liberal arts classes beyond the ones required by the university, although they can fit in some. One option to consider: as an Acting major, a student who wants more training in singing can (with effort) get into some of the MT classes and voice labs but retain slots in his/her schedule for liberal arts classes (probably can’t fit too many of the sequential dance classes in, though). A student considering this plan needs to be aware that Carnegie Mellon’s classes are very rigorous so the options for exploring intro level courses in academic subjects move quickly into higher level courses that represent major or minor requirements in that discipline.</p>
<p>I will never forget going to a CMU information session and someone asked about the requirements to get into the various schools. The admissions counselors said that for the sciences and computer science and liberal arts you have to have high scores, good grades, SATIIs. For Architecture and Design…portfolio counts about 30% for admission. For visual arts, its about 50% but some minimum level of scores and grades (at least 3.5)…and then what about MT program?..the response, and I quote, “we check to see you get your high school diploma but the audition is what gets you in or not”. SAT scores, grades, rigour of high school program is totally irrelevant to admission and to success at CMU MT program. MT kids at CMU are the only ones who can NOT double major in one of the other schools not even liberal arts or even fine arts. They take very few courses outside of their incredibly intense program. Encouraged to take electives is to take a couple of classes-perhaps in foreign language or art history or film studies…to give you a bit of a taste of academia. But the attitude at the best MT schools is that if this is what you want to do you have to give it your total dedication for 4 years…any other approach will mean that you have effectively chosen to pursue MT as a hobby and you are fated for community theatre (not necessarily a bad thing but a kid needs to determine what moon he is shooting for…). For us non-artsy parents, this is terrifying because we want our kid to have a “back-up” plan with some basic education and skills should they change their mind about their passion or just plain fail to be a success in the art form they have chosen. It just may be that in order to “make it” in the arts they have to jump off the cliff without that liberal arts education parachute that we want them to have…</p>
<p>“But the attitude at the best MT schools is that if this is what you want to do you have to give it your total dedication for 4 years…any other approach will mean that you have effectively chosen to pursue MT as a hobby and you are fated for community theatre (not necessarily a bad thing but a kid needs to determine what moon he is shooting for…).”</p>
<p>I sense a bit of tongue and check in the above quote ;), but I wanted to point out that there are many programs… NYU , Elon, UMich, Northwestern (BA), Penn State, etc… for example where students are encouraged to have commitment to training AND take classes outside of their major. There are many graduates of all types of undergraduate institutions who are very successful as professional performers… BA, BFA, BS, BM, two year conservatory, etc… If your child is interested in a more balanced educational environment AND strong training there are schools where they can achieve this balance.</p>
<p>The student can also take summer classes at a local Community college or State University to round out their academic resume. As discussed many times here, there are not many programs (especially BFA MT) where there is any time for anything else.</p>
<p>D is pursuing a BM degree in VP (with a MT concentration) at NYU. By taking 18 credits per term, in addition to her MT requirements, she is getting a music degree (aural, theory, keyboarding, history), and taking classes in the humanities, social sciences, science/math and foreign language. In addition, she is pursuing a minor called the Business of Media and Entertainment which encompasses classes from Tisch, Stern and Steinhardt (Music Business.) The same program is offered in a more advanced from by Stern as an MBA. Hopefully, she will have many options open to her when she graduates.</p>
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