<p>If you want more academics, look closely at the curricula at each BFA program because they all differ. For instance, besides other liberal arts subjects, the Tisch students must take SEVEN classes in Theater Studies and that is more than some BFAs that might have a MT History type class, etc. For instance, last semester, my D studied Indonesian Theater and Avant Garde (these were separate classes!). These were academic in nature. So, even the "theater" part of her degree program has a bunch of academics in it beyond the regular liberal arts requirements in other subject areas. So, examine what each BFA program requires. It really differs among the programs.</p>
<p>MichaelNKat and soozievt....this is making me feel better already. I have been reading this board for about 8 months now and still feel like we have so much more to learn about this college path (hence the nickname lol). </p>
<p>soozie, I tried to send you a PM but your box was full......</p>
<p>New<em>at</em>this...
Emails work better for me.</p>
<p>Glad this forum is helpful. I agree there is a lot that can be learned from it beyond what is found in the usual college information sources.</p>
<p>NMR-I agree with you completely and must respectfully disagree with some of Checkbookmom's comments. Of course, our information is based on our own personal experiences, but I can't tell you the number of times I saw young women associates quit at about the 3 year mark to marry and have children. I assume they had "planned" to have life long careers while slaving away in law school for three post graduate years. Many of them have never worked outside the home since other than volunteer work. Certainly, some have begun working part time again in less demanding positions but they are definitely not the primary support of their families. Sadly, I think there is considerable truth to the NYT article NMR referenced.</p>
<p>I have to weigh in here. My husband worked with a man whose daughter is in her second year at UCLA. She is still "unsure" of what she is actually going to do and her father says that he refuses to pay $40,000+ for "majoring in finding a husband"!! LOL It is truly sad to see the many that are totally driven for what they want and see them "not make it" in their passionate field of study after graduation. Kudos to those who get the education and find the resources and the outlets to use their degree. How unfair it must seem for those who work so hard at that degree and then see someone "make it in the business" with little or no schooling. I guess that comes into the "nothing in life is fair" and hopefully we are raising our children with passion but realism. It breaks my heart to read some of these posts where the kid has applied and auditioned to several schools and not accepted to 1. How awful is that!! So with all that said, I am getting a very valuable education on all of this. If one wants to be more of a performer than a teacher, composer, producer, etc. is it suggested to look for a school with a MT BA degree as soozievt has suggested? If a degree does not make that much difference and it is all about the "look and the talent" would one get the dance, acting, and voice training necessary to further their already extensive training in an MT BA program? This seems to be the better route for those who dont want to necessarily immerse themselves in all aspects of the business. Any thoughts?</p>
<p>And, I know that this is a little off the subject because we are talking about MT kids here. How does the recruited athlete for the football team make it in college. Knowing how many hours the coach requires of them with weight training, many, many hours of practice, games, etc. etc. All of those students are majoring in something! Some of them are in very academic intensive programs, so can the MT programs compare in anyway to what a college athlete going in with honors does?</p>
<p>A quick reply about recruited athletes and Michigan in particular. They basically go to school year round. A neighbor's daughter who was captain of the UMich field hockey team last year, "got off" 4 weeks in the summer last year. Many of the football players are already up there for the summer. Once you visit UMich, you'll see that they have a rather strange calendar, i.e., their winter break is in February. The winter term is over in April and there are both spring and summer sessions. I've often wondered whether that schedule was designed, in part, to accomodat the athletes.</p>
<p>Also, Michigan is notorious for dropping academic standards for their athletes. That's a whole different thread, though.</p>
<p>Regardless of how valuable & versatile you, I, or our kids believe the study of drama or musical theater are, many future employers won't feel the same way. That's just another piece to weigh when making the choice. Just as insider knowledge of a program's worth is only known to "insiders." A degree from a household name school like Michigan or Carnegie Mellon may be impressive if the performer decides to seek employment outside the theater world. That cachet can be valuable.</p>
<p>britbrat, while my D was not a recruited athlete, she was a varsity athlete all four years of college. And this was at a very demanding college, an Ivy league school. Her life was very busy indeed, much like my MT kid's life. The amount of class hours IN CLASS was not as much as my BFA kid has. But I would liken her out of class hours for her sport to something like my other kid devotes to rehearsals. In off season, she had seven practices per week. In season, she had two full mornings away from campus for training and her entire weekend away from campus every weekend, plus one week per year of missed classes for the national championships for her sport. I am not even counting here that she was involved in other extracurricular pursuits as well at college. She even managed to do the entire specialized graduate admissions process this year while going to classes, being a TA for a class, and being in her varsity sport. </p>
<p>The only comparison that I can see is the hours a MT kid puts into rehearsals outside of class to what the athlete puts into practices/games outside of class. Those are EXTRACURRICULARS. </p>
<p>But what most of us here are trying to tell you is that IN CLASS, a BFA in MT kid has many more hours of class time than regular college students have. WAY more hours. My BFA kid has nine classes that meet for something like 30 hours per week. A regular BA student has about four or five classes that maybe meet 15 hours a week? </p>
<p>We are not really trying to tell you that your son will be too busy to major in Engineering and a BFA in MT. Simply the hours for the many required and inflexible classes for both those specialized degrees are unlikely to mesh and be able to be fit into the schedule. We are just talking of CLASS TIME. But then outside of class, the MT kid has hours of rehearsal....(my MT kid rehearses every night approx. 6:30 PM to 11 PM and on weekends too) and so an engineering kid is going to have hours of problem sets and I am not sure how those would fit in because I can just tell you that my BFA in MT kid goes to school ALL DAY and rehearses ALL NIGHT and on WEEKENDS and has to already fit in homework for all those classes and prep work for the training style classes. I don't see engineering meshing with a BFA in MT both in class time and outside of class time. </p>
<p>By the way, the difference between going for a BA in theater/MT vs. a BFA is not so much as to which will lead to becoming a performer....because BOTH paths could lead a student to that. The difference is more that a BFA program is heavily weighted on the classes in that major and less classes in liberal arts and in a BA, there is more flexibility and the major in theater is only about 35% of the coursework. Both paths can lead to performing. A BFA is more fitting for a student who wants to concentrate primarily on theater and is fully committed to that one focus. Someone who wants to equally focus on TWO areas, generally speaking, is more suited to a BA double major, not a BFA. SOME BFA programs (but NOT ALL) allow for a second major or a minor (minor is more likely)....example: Tisch or UMich. But I have never heard of a BFA in MT that allows for a double major with a specialized degree like engineering. Both engineering and BFA programs are not NORMAL majors. Both involve way more credit hours and class time in the major than BA majors do.</p>
<p>I am not disputing that I am confused, but what from this statement on the MT page I am missing?</p>
<p>As part of the degree, students have numerous opportunities to learn about career strategies,audition techniques, and a wide range of performance skills. Studying at Michigan also presents opportunities to choose among hundreds of classes outside the performing arts. In fact, Michigan offers a rare dual degree program in which you can work on the Bachelor of Fine Arts degree and a Bachelor of Arts or Bachelor of Science degree simultaneously. All of this combines to make Michigan's Department of Musical Theatre a unique place for the aspiring musical theatre professional to begin a career.</p>
<p>You then click on degrees at the top of that page and it takes you to a page that leads you to this link</p>
<p>UM School of Music, Theatre & Dance - Dual Degree Programs</p>
<p>As I said in an earlier post, if it is virtually impossible then why dont they just take engineering out of the mix and just leave the LSA and Ross school of business for a dual degree?</p>
<p>I just replied to you about that same post on the MT/engineering thread you started. It is best to not double post on more than one thread the same exact post.</p>
<p>And here is the link from the Engineering School at U of M</p>
<p>Michigan</a> Engineering | Undergraduate Degree Options</p>
<p>Granted it may take longer than 4 years, but am I missing something in the offer to do it?</p>
<p>Again, I believe they are discussing a combined degree between engineering and MUSIC and not the BFA in MT. There are many schools that allow a dual degree over five years for Engineering and music..... I think CMU or Tufts are examples. I haven't seen a combo of Engineering and a BFA in MT by anyone before. If Mich allows it, great...but that is not how I read the site. Maybe it is allowed. I would definitely talk to someone in MT at UMich. Please realize that the Music School at UMich encompasses other degree programs besides a BFA in MT. So, a statement that says that engineering can be combined with programs in music is NOT the same as stating it can be combined with the BFA in MT. If it can, great. But one could infer it the way I just described as well. If UMich allows a combo between engineering and a BFA in MT, it could take five or six years. And even if this is possible, I'd want to talk to someone in the MT program and get their view on it. And even if it is possible, it doesn't solve finding colleges because you will have trouble finding other schools with a BFA in MT combo with an Engineering degree and so your son will be forced to look into the other degree or combo options I have described in order to formulate a college list that will yield results.</p>
<p>That makes sense. Thanks</p>
<p>Broadway, National tours and even local theatres aren't the only place to eventually find employment but it is always interesting to read the Playbills or review the bios online of the casts. You'll see a variety of schools, degrees and backgrounds. There are websites for every show with the cast and bios. Since this is the eventual dream for most of these kids it's an important step in research and can be an eye opener to who has gotten hired and their college backgrounds. As you wonder about different schools, BA v BFA, etc what can speak louder to success than the people that are doing it and getting paid. </p>
<p>Then there are the Sutton Fosters - you run into someone that didn't finish college. I think Sutton is a good example of this type. She didn't just drop out of CMU after one year and make it. She had finished her high school education by correspondence course while touring with the Will Rogers Follies. In researching other actors that find employment without college I usually find this kind of background - early success in Annie, playing a child in Les Mes or other experience when young where they have proved themselves. As has been pointed out on CC, Directors and Producers are reluctant to hire even very talented young actors without a college education when they get to this age. There is too much investment in the shows to risk hiring someone without the discipline and ethic to show up for rehearsals and the 8 rigorous performances. Having completed college speaks more to them of having that capacity.</p>
<p>HoosierMom2012, out of curiosity is this your take on this or is this something you have definitely heard? My father was a broadway playwright and in his casting sessions (non musical) college or no college no matter what the age wouldn't have made a whit of difference. Background was of general interest, but it was really look and of course audition that made the decision, unless of course they were looking for a name that would already be recognizable to audiences and maybe help bring them in.</p>
<p>Hi HSN, </p>
<p>As I said - researching the bios of cast with no listed college I commonly find they have already completed a tour or perfomed when young thus having this hands-on experience and having proven themselves. As far as the opinion of the Directors/Producers in casting those without college, you can find first hand feedback on that on CC threads. Sorry but I can't recall right now the name(s) of those threads. I think you might find that discussion on this last year Rejection thread or a thread dealing with not getting into any college choices and discussions about the prospects of just hitting the audition circuit straight out of high school.</p>
<p>Just an example of probably an exception to the rule. When Matthew Morrison was a student at my son's PA high school a few years back and he was performing at one of our HS shows with former broadway star Susan Egan (one of the first graduates of OCHSA), he asked her and I quote, "how to I get to Broadway"? Susan's response was "buy a ticket" (she felt like he was that talented). Matt in his humble way said thank you and proceeded to NYU the next year. In an interview (which is public on the alumni page of OCHSA's website <a href="http://www.ocsarts.com)%5B/url%5D">www.ocsarts.com)</a>, he shares how OCHSA prepared him so well that when he got to NYU he felt like his was repeating his HS experience (instruction wise). He left NYU in his second year to be the lead in Hairspray on Broadway. He actually passed Susan Egan on the sidewalk in NY on his way to the audition. Now, a fairy tale story you say? Maybe, but it does happen. Many of the OCHSA alums have "made it" in the business without completing school, but as HoosierMom2012 has stated, it is the training, the exposure and the pure talent that sometimes makes this possible. I am not saying that it is fair, but sometimes in this world and especially in this business it is "who you know" and not "what you know". Good luck to everyone in this process. May all your dreams come true too!</p>
<p>Sorry OCHSA</a> HomePage if you are interested in lookin at the interview on the alumni page</p>