Strong Academically...still go for MT?

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>If you look closely at the subtext of this whole thread, it makes one realize that here is a kid who has as good a shot as anyone to be successful in the entertainment field, but still wants to be practical and be prepared to be marketable in other areas to make a living. With the economy the way it is right now, I have to admit that it's a scary proposition to encourage my child to pursue a field with low-single digit employment rate and be saddled with school debt, to boot. It's a tough call. My D also has great scores and excels in school. She has the potential to get her college paid for with a great deal of state money on top of that, but our state doesn't have any good MT schools. </p>

<p>Her older brother reaped the benefits of staying in-state with a year of study abroad at St. Andrews in Scotland totally paid for, plus a generous stipend every semester, plus his other 3 years completely paid for. He had been accepted to Duke and Notre Dame, where he was given the offer to be a Notre Dame Scholar in their honors program. The financial aid package covered about half the cost, however, with some of the package being loans. It was a VERY tough call, but he chose to attend Arkansas and accept the fellowship with state money added on top of that. </p>

<p>Just as we did in the spring of 02....we have some tough decisions ahead of us in the coming year. My D really wants to pursue MT, and hopefully the summer program she is preparing to attend in a few days will help us begin the work of sorting things out. I just need to go back and read the threads that tell of practical professsions that other people have worked in that were part of the 99% that didn't make it in the industry lol.</p>

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<p>There's always law school. It will wait and a little "maturity" will only be an asset.</p>

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<p>Law school is definitely a path we have discussed. Does the MT path fully prepare one for law school? (I could probably do a search on here for that one). </p>

<p>She takes French in school and enjoyed it so much that she took French II through correspondence this summer so that she could take French III this coming year. We are going to research into a foreign language as a minor. Any thoughts on this? Obviously foreign language study is helpful with the classical reportoire, as well.</p>

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<p>There is no undergrad degree that prepares you for law school. Law schools are very numbers oriented - GPA and LSAT are what count. Graduating from one of the more unheard of schools may complicate things a bit, but a degree in MT or theater from Michigan, Northwestern, CMU, NYU, Indiana, or even Juilliard would be great - as long as grades are top. There are many others - I just listed what came to mind. With regard to preparation, a student who has no problem reading large volumes with good comprehension is a good start. Students good with analysis and logic have a leg up on the LSAT. I happen to think that kids who are good at these things are good when they graduate from high school and what they do in college doesn't really matter - as long as they're being challenged and not drowning brain cells with alcohol.</p>

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<p>I see what you mean about having innate skills that prepare you for the LSAT. My son considered law school, and even took the LSAT himself with excellent results, but ended up taking a different path altogether (a doctoral program in educational reform). His bachelor's degree was a double major in philosophy and physics. I do think that those majors helped hone his ability to think logically and out of the box, especially the time he spent at St. Andrews. I just have to wonder if taking dance, vocal and acting lessons the majority of the time help hone these skills? These are certainly questions we will be asking over the next few months.</p>

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<p>Lawyers generally are logical and analytical. Laws are constantly changing so in law school they tell you there is one thing and only one thing they will teach you during those three years - to think like a lawyer. If you score well on the LSAT you can probably go to law school.</p>

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<p>I can't resist a post now. First, as an attorney who was the first woman partner in my section in my firm's then 75 year history, I am definitely not sexist. I am also, however, not naive. The truth of the matter is for parents of boys interested in MT, there is good news and bad news. The good news is that MT is far less competitive for boys than girls. Anyone who has attended an open call audition can attest to that. Accordingly, the likelihood of getting into a great college program and getting work is higher for boys than for girls. Unfortunately (the bad news), it is still the case that girls attractive enough to believe they can make a career in MT (looks are now perceived to be the 4th prong of a quadruple threat these days for female performers) have the traditional "fallback" of getting married and not being expected to be the primary breadwinner. I empathize with the parents of boys who are fully capable of excelling in more "practical" careers wanting their kids to hedge their bets. I'm seeing it now in a friend of my D's, a rising senior, who has always been intent on an MT major until this year, and I suspect there have been considerable discussions in his home about being "practical." I certainly don't have any answers, but I think it is important to recognize an inherent difference in parenting aspiring MT girls vs. boys. </p>

<p>To BritBrat1961: What about USC with its Renaissance Scholar program? They also offer an MT minor. Lots of kids from my D's school go to USC with half tuition scholarships for being National Merit Finalists. (As an aside, nearly 70% of their senior class is either National Merit or Commended almost every year. It's a crazy school!) </p>

<p>As for appropriate preparation for law school, courses that make you read, write, and think are critical. At one point, we instituted a remedial writing course for new associates at our firm--and these were kids who were on law review at their schools! I can't say we ever had a theater major undergrad, but the types of performance and public speaking skills learned in MT could readily translate to certain areas of practice, particularly litigation. Hope this helps.</p>

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<p>I want the same things for my D as I wanted for my S. I want her to have a college education, a career, and be financially independent. Another statistic - 50% of marriages end in divorce. When and if she marries I want her to have viable skills to support herself and possibly my grandchildren and not be dependent on alimony and child support. If she discovers she chose poorly I don't want her to feel trapped into a bad marriage for financial reasons.</p>

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<p>I didn't mean to suggest that mothers of MT girls aren't anxious about financial prospects and independence as well. We certainly are. I have often told my D that this career path is not one I would have chosen for her, but I nevertheless support her goals. The fact remains that girls have options in our society that boys usually don't in terms of being supported by a spouse. (even if it's only 50% of the time per your stats)</p>

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<p>There are also plenty of "house husbands" in today's society bc there are a lot of females in high-powered high-paying jobs that support families. And lots of 2 parent working families. Following one's passion in life usually produces a happier and better adjusted adult member of society. Lots of people change careers midstream, or at mid-life. NOT pursing a passion can have some very detrimental long term effects on attitude and outlook. The "what if" syndrome. And no educational tract guarantees a successful career. JMHO.</p>

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<p>I agree totally TT. They are so young and can easily go back to school later and get a 2nd degree - after they have followed their dream. I rather see her do that then have a horrid mid life crisis full of resentment and "what if". I knew a Dr that went to law school in his 60's.</p>

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<p>Just a thought in response to actormcfamous's very eloquent and extremely well written post about how the Michigan MTs who seem most successful seem to be those who did not double major.</p>

<p>Could one reason for that be that those who threw themselves heart and soul, completely, into the MT major are the ones who are most passionate about that and only that, and thus, may be the most determined to succeed/ambitious and driven?</p>

<p>Of course, there are other factors which also may be at work; this is far from a scientifically sound observation. It's just something that occurred to me when I read actormcfamous's post, and thought throwing out there for your consideration. (Apologies to Christopher Guest. :))</p>

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<p>My husband (wow it feels weird to type that) went to law school with an BA in economics, and he has had in his courtroom 3 DAs with arts backgrounds--one majored in Drama at U Mich, one studied trumpet at U Arts, and another was a dance major (I fotget the school).</p>

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<p>Have to chime in. I too am a practicing attorney, and I majored in Spanish literature. I know of two excellent lawyers, much younger than I am, who were NY actors for 10 years, and went to law school after that (relatively recently.) </p>

<p>I would say, IMHO, follow your dream now, and follow the other dreams that come along later. You can always go back to school for a particular degree. Most people who are intelligent and vibrant do change careers or paths as life leads them to new passions and choices. The career you choose at 18 is often not the one you ply at 50. </p>

<p>I know that this forum is geared to students who know what they want, but who in this adult community never changed majors, or jobs, or careers? We are charged with being more realistic than our children, and that does not mean 'stage-mothering' them into the field, or 'you'll never earn a living' them out of it! We are the ones to recognize that an education, whether academic, artistic, or vocational, is the goal of the next four years, and employment is the goal that follows it. </p>

<p>Our kids will do best in fields they enjoy, but whether they are the next Broadway/ Hollywood stars or just educated people who can perform, in what ever context, they will have an education under their belts. After that, their lives are theirs to pursue.</p>

<p>The argument that we don't want to spend the outrageous $$ for a degree they can't use is not particularly persuasive, either. I can think of very few undergraduate degrees (engineering is one!) that lead directly to the kind of employment that we would consider 'end goal'. So whether you major in MT, or English, or Spanish Lit, or Sociology, you will need something more to have a career, unless, of course, the career you end up in doesn't require a degree! If we are willing to fund an undergrad education, the major is almost by-the-way. </p>

<p>And no one can seriously think that a woman can (or even wants to) marry-out of the work force in this day and age. Most young women today have grown up knowing that their careers and futures are every bit as important-- and dicey --as men's.</p>

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<p>checkbookmom, I completely agree with all you wrote. The main thing is that the student is getting a college degree, and not what the major is. I never cared my kids' majors in college. I wanted them to pursue any interest area they wish. In the end, they have earned a college degree. Zillions of people are in the work force and working jobs that are not necessarily in the field of their college major. But the degree got them to the career world. You can major in something and do another type of work. Employers want educated people. There are kids going into investment banking who did not major in economics but majored in English. There are kids who majored in theater who have gone into business management. I believe in studying in college what interests you. The major is not as important. Someone with a college degree is employable. There is also grad school. A degree in theater can lead to many careers outside of the arts. </p>

<p>I sent my kids to college to get an education and not to have a major that directly is connected to job propects. I am confident that careers are in their future. Their education will take them places.</p>

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<p>checkbookmom, I beg to disagree with you about young women today not wanting to/counting on being able to get married and be supported by a husband while staying home to raise children. Just a few years, there was a lot of hooplah in the national press about a study that seemed to indicate that a startling number of young women in prestigious colleges planned to pursue their chosen careers until the babies came, and then they planned to stay home and raise the little ones. (Here is one story about the whole issue, which upset some feminists: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/national/20women.html?pagewanted=print%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/national/20women.html?pagewanted=print&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

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<p>soozievt, I agree with you in that the degree you pursue doesn't have to be viewed as direct training for a specific job (med school and engineering come to mind first). As I stated earlier, my older son got a double major in physics and philosophy. We have always encouraged our kids to do what they want and pursue their passions. However, I have to admit that the line in an episode of "That 70s Show" where Eric said to his sister when she said she was going to major in philosophy in college ("yeah, I hear they're hiring right now down at the philosophy factory in town") had to make me cringe and laugh at the same time! My son and I have had several conversations over the years where he's had to reassure me that he would have many options of being gainfully employed, and he has proven that. I went to school to be a teacher, so that was my experience. You train, you get a job, end of story. </p>

<p>I do have concerns as to how mostly a curriculum of dancing, vocals and acting can help hone the skills of being able to be a well read person who can digest, analyze and discuss ideas and concepts. I'm not ruling out an MT major for my daughter.....I"m just saying that when we visit schools, these will be questions I will be asking.</p>

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<p>new<em>at</em>this....perhaps your D might be interested, like my own child, in a BFA program at an academically selective college where there is a significant number of acacdemic classes (though not as many as in a liberal arts degree program). She values and enjoys the academic classes and does plenty of reading, thinking, analyzing, and writing. As well, there is some of that even in acting classes. I feel she is going to graduate college with worldly knowledge, an educated mind, and the ability to analyze, think critically, and write. I believe that her degree could lead to all sorts of work. She is pursuing a life on stage but that will not be all she is equipped to do. </p>

<p>Further, a theater program itself, even without the liberal arts classes, teaches other skills that are valuable in the work place such as collaboration, responsibility, leadership, dedication, healthy self-image, self-discipline, motivation, creative problem-solving, independence, initiative, promptness, ability to learn quickly, ability to work under pressure, acceptance of disappointment, a goal-oriented approach, concentration, oral communication skills, etc. These skills, traits and qualities are part of theater training and are applicable and desired by employers. And that is just what is gained from theater training and not the academic classes. </p>

<p>Some BFAs have more liberal arts than others and so examine the curricula for each program your D is interested in. I know my D really was attracted to schools like NYU/Tisch because there IS some academics at a challenging level (one can even double major or minor, although she is not doing so) as she values a wider education beyond the training itself. In fact, Tisch's philosophy includes a value on the wider education as they feel it makes for better actors. Then, of course, that education is valued in the wider work force if one doesn't end up working as a performer.</p>

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<p>NMR, I remember the article! Re-read it, thanks for the link. Alas, it was funny then, and funny now. It was, to me, a tired attempt to fuel the media-created "division" between stay-at-home moms, and "working moms." </p>

<p>Probably not the forum for it, but the reality is that we are all working moms. Some stay home with their children full time when they are little, (tell me that's not work!!) some don't, and the very few who stay home forever provide the community with the back-bone of volunteers and school participation that make some places worth living. All valid. </p>

<p>I live in a pretty affluent community. In truth, when I first moved here 20 years ago, I was the rare "working mom." Now, even in this affluent community, there are very, very few who stay home beyond the first five years of the kids' life. Women either return to their careers or start new ones. </p>

<p>Most (by far) girls in my D's class (she's 22 now, a science type!) all plan careers, and know they will be working most of their lives. Not one thinks a husband will support her forever. Economic reality, ambition, divorce, death, dreams and needs all work to create daughters who will join the workforce. </p>

<p>And even in our day (do I assume a cohort?) we knew mothers whose circumstances forced them into the work world. Now, it is unusual, and highly unrealistic, to think they will be home forever.</p>

<p>All the best. I love your posts! Checkbook</p>

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<p>new<em>at</em>this, I had the same concern, in some respects, for my daughter who throughout high school was a top flight honors/AP student etc. During her freshman year as a BFA MT student, she read about 30 - 40 major pieces of dramatic literature, discussed in classes the historical, cultural, social contexts and thematic content, researched the lives of playwrites and wrote analytical papers. A BFA MT program requires, both in classes and acting studio, an ability to engage in insightful anaytical processes. While she has relatively few "traditional" academic classes, I can assure you any good BFA program will demand that a student commit substantial time and energy in the skill areas you describe.</p>