Strong Regional Bias in Admissions

<p>I would second runmanstl:
Being from Northeast is actually worse, not better.
And as many said: you are trying to compare acceptances at match schools with acceptances t reach schools.
We are from Northeast. But result is the same. My daughter also got into three schools that are no less competitive than Duke, Wash U and Vandy and has good merit scholarships from several schools. But only waitlists and rejections at HYPs. Those were reach schools. That's it.</p>

<p>DunninLA, there is nothing inconsistent so much as irrelevant. The acceptance % data applies to the whole pool of applicants but we are talking about a candidate that was identified by three highly selective institutions as being in the top 1%-2%.</p>

<p>I understand that not getting in to HYP doesn't mean very much. However, this kid also applied to Amherst (19%), Swarthmore (19%) and Middlebury (22%). It is difficult for me to believe that an application ranked in the top 1-2% at Duke, wustl, and Vandy -- all of them -- would somehow fail to make the top 20% at these other places -- all of them -- unless some other factor was at work.</p>

<p>Since all of the rejections came from the northeast and the kid was accepted everywhere else, the most obvious factor to me was geography.</p>

<p>However, from this discussion I conclude that this is not well and widely known, so that answers my original question. For my next kid, who is coming along in a few years, we will submit more applications closer to home, and fewer in the northeast.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone!</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since all of the rejections came from the northeast and the kid was accepted everywhere else, the most obvious factor to me was geography.</p>

<p>However, from this discussion I conclude that this is not well and widely known, so that answers my original question. For my next kid, who is coming along in a few years, we will submit more applications closer to home, and fewer in the northeast.

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</p>

<p>if he wants to go to school in the northeast - submit MORE applications to schools in the northeast. Your son should have applied to more schools.</p>

<p>Again there are many many more kids in the northeast just like your son than there are in the southeast.
Was your son hoping for one school in particular or was he just collection college acceptance letters?</p>

<p>Q - what is the fascination with the northeast anyway? my kids all want to go south. there are many fine schools that are significantly cheaper.</p>

<p>Personally, I think schools like Harvard are a bit of a freak show, a weird liberal menagerie, at least at the undergrad level. In the 80s when my friends went to Harvard, they were stellar performers. When we visited Harvard last year, the info session was led by a very pompous black man in a bow tie and two very gay boys, one black and one hispanic. My brother who was with me joked that my son had too much testosterone and was too white for Harvard. We both laughed, thinking surely this was not true. However, based on the admits we've seen this year, I'm sure my kid and several of his equally qualified friends are better off at places like Duke, Penn, Vandy, Chicago, etc. </p>

<p>In the end, I'm amused. I didn't want my kid to apply to HYPS and talked him out of some, thankfully -- believing that these were not schools admitting solely on merit and the process has shown me that I was correct. In the final analysis, being accepted to say, Johns BME, is better than being accepted to Harvard engineering sciences and more difficult to boot -- if one is really considering the quality of the education for that very specific major. Southeastdad, having lived and gone to school in Boston for many years, I believe you are not imagining the bias against southern applicants.</p>

<p>
[quote]
However, this kid also applied to Amherst (19%), Swarthmore (19%) and Middlebury (22%). It is difficult for me to believe that an application ranked in the top 1-2% at Duke, wustl, and Vandy -- all of them -- would somehow fail to make the top 20% at these other places -- all of them -- unless some other factor was at work.

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<p>Well, Amherst, Middlebury and Swarthmore are all LACs, which means they have less slots for each "type" of person when trying to make a well rounded class, and also care a LOT about fit. Maybe something in the student is question's application made them think he wouldn't excelle at a LAC? Just a thought.</p>

<p>each school evaluates applicants on their own terms. He was likely qualified for all of his schools, but there was simply no room for him. Or maybe he had something that Duke wanted, but Middlebury didn't. As others have said, if anything, regional bias would work in his favor for NE schools. Also, Amherst had only a 12.5% acceptance rate this year, apparently.</p>

<p>This is just a statistical recap.</p>

<p>The first number is the average of SAT 25th and 75th percentiles; the second is the % of freshmen in top 10% of HS class. Acceptances are bold. </p>

<p>Ranked by SAT:</p>

<p>Harvard 1490 95
Yale 1485 95
Princeton 1480 94
Wash U 1450 95
Duke 1445 89
Pomona 1445 87<br>
Amherst 1430 86
Swarthm 1425 83
Chicago 1425 80
Emory 1385 88
Middlebu 1375 82<br>
Vandy 1375 79
Reed 1370 67
Wilm & Mary 1340 80 </p>

<p>Ranked by top 10%:</p>

<p>Harvard 1490 95
Yale 1485 95
Wash U 1450 95
Princeton 1480 94
Duke 1445 89
Emory 1385 88
Pomona 1445 87<br>
Amherst 1430 86
Swarthm 1425 83
Middlebu 1375 82<br>
Chicago 1425 80
Wilm & Mary 1340 80<br>
Vandy 1375 79
Reed 1370 67</p>

<p>For these narrow rankings, Amherst, Swarthmore and Middlebury appear to be the "outliers."</p>

<p>Data from USNews 2008</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>The fact that you label people "weird" and call Harvard a "menagerie" "freak show" shows how close-minded you are. If your son was anything like you, I'm glad he didn't apply or if he did, was denied. </p>

<p>
[quote]
When we visited Harvard last year, the info session was led by a very pompous black man in a bow tie and two very gay boys, one black and one hispanic. My brother who was with me joked that my son had too much testosterone and was too white for Harvard.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is a racist, sexist, and heterosexist comment and should not be construed as a joke. I feel sorry for Johns Hopkins if they will have to deal a parent like you.</p>

<p>To Southeast Dad, just accept the fact that your son was denied despite the regional advantage given him and move on! He has great options.</p>

<p>"For these narrow rankings, Amherst, Swarthmore and Middlebury appear to be the "outliers." "</p>

<p>Your quick statistical summary sort of confirms what I suspected. The three northeastern schools are the outliers.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, a thoughtful and well-informed person has convinced me, in an off-thread discussion, that it's very unlikely that any systematic regional bias against the kid was in play here. Just as it's possible to roll snake-eyes every so often, every so often certain things come in threes.</p>

<p>Thanks everyone for the thoughtful and enlightening discussion!</p>

<p>They are not outliers, Amherst, especially, has not hidden the fact thw SATs are not its number one priority, and have recently been further emphasizing other factors. No student, even one at the top of Duke's applicant pool, can expect an acceptance there.</p>

<p>Some interesting data regarding Swarthmore as well. They admit about 900 students each year. At least for the past 3 years, approximately 55% of students admitted have been URMs. That leaves you with about 450 white students admitted. About 25% of the class was admitted ED. So if we assume an equal split with URM and white students, that leaves about 350 students admitted in the RD round. Half of those were females, so we are now down to 175 white males admitted during RD. Once you get passed the numbers, schools like Swat and Middlebury are looking for specific characteristics. I think where you live is a part of that equation, but only part. </p>

<p>We are from WI. My son got waitlisted at Swat 2 years ago. There probably are only a couple of dozen students in the whole state who even apply there in any given year and he would have been one of the top. We will never know why he didn't get in. (He was accepted at Middlebury.) However, he is quite happy where he is, Oberlin, and hasn't really thought much about Swat since he started school. Your son, too, will likely be very happy wherever he chooses to go.</p>

<p>Dear Dad:</p>

<p>This thread has had some nasty postings. They are primarily adults and it is shameful behavior. The kids on CC seem to be pretty nice to each other. Why people are so upset by your question regarding regional bias escapes me. And the fact that some of the posters are doing extensive research to refute your claim amazes me. You could probably research the geographic make up of each of your son's colleges and come to your own conclusions. I do know that, despite the objections here, some top private schools admit many more students from their home areas than from other locations. Stanford for one has a student body composed of a disproportionate amount of Californians.<br>
PS-Duke Up Close is a great experience. They certainly know how to treat their top academic recruits.
Good luck to your son.</p>

<p>Anecdotal case -</p>

<p>Not a school your son applied to (Why Not??)</p>

<p>But this is info from Dartmouth from another thread:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/dartmouth-college/488627-dartmouth-app-breakdown-state.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/dartmouth-college/488627-dartmouth-app-breakdown-state.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]

Admittees come from across the nation as well as around the world: 324 from New England; 615 from the Mid-Atlantic; 216 from the Midwest; 368 from the South; and 441 from the West, with the remainder having a non-U.S. address.

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<p>Does not appear to me that there is any Southern bias in Dartmouth admissions.</p>

<p>Part of SEDad's perception may actually be reinforced by the Dartmouth numbers. In the Deep South, anything north of Richmond is considered as "the North" and I would bet that a large number of the Virginia admits came from northern Virginia, a decidedly un-southern area. This may be a stretch and we don't know where Virginia's 7 admits actually live, but the area from DC north is definitely not southern.</p>

<p>Below is a different take on the Dartmouth numbers and may better reflect how a southerner would view the geographic distribution of their letters of acceptance. </p>

<p>Northeast (200): Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia (if it is NoVA)</p>

<p>Southern (36): Alabama, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi</p>

<p>Southwest (22): Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma</p>

<p>Midwest (38): Minnesota, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin</p>

<p>Mountain/Plains (15): Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Utah, North Dakota, Kansas</p>

<p>West (68): California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada</p>

<p>We also need the applicant data to make it meaningful. Maybe all 15 of the Mountain/Plains applicants were admitted! ;)</p>

<p>Count your blessings SoutheastDAD and teach your "kid" to do the same. Life is not fair. How come I know that at 21 and you haven't grasped that concept? Your "kid" landed safely..............who gives a flying fig where he didn't get in and why and what region has to do with anything. Your "kid" got into a good school. Thirteen applications is absurd! Crazy absurd! </p>

<p>Your post just shows that you are a parent who is obsessed with every single detail. Get a life! Give your kid some space! </p>

<p>Settle down before he sends out applications to grad school. Sheesh. </p>

<p>Peace out!</p>

<p>OK, let's just make this real easy without having to quote data and regions and percentages and whatever...................</p>

<p>Dad: Listen up. Your "kid" is like tons, and I mean a gazillion other kids in the United States. Yes, he is stellar. Wonderful! However...............not ever college is going to view this "kid" the same way you (obviously) or the other schools that admitted him do. The top schools that your "kid" applied to, see most of the top applicants across the board. It's more than STAT's. How could your "kid" court 13 colleges? I don't know why, but your post is disturbing and it seems like you are splitting hairs instead of counting your blessings and realizing that your stellar kid got in some schools and not some others. Like duh? Why is that hard to understand? Why does that warrant such an explanation? </p>

<p>Thankfully your "kid" is not in Iraq and you have the cashola to pay for 13 applicatons. Good grades only get you so far..............then the rest will be up to your "kid" and not up to you. Let go.</p>

<p>
[quote]
little old Exeter sends as many kids to Harvard as does the entire middle-western part of the United States

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<p>Please allow me to ask a follow-up question on this point. Where are the figures published that would allow verifying this? What is the definition of Midwest used here? </p>

<p>My son has two buddies from Minnesota who decided, in two successive years, to enroll at Exeter. I presume if either of those students is admitted to Harvard, he will be counted as both a Midwesterner and as an Exeter graduate.</p>

<p>SEDad, We're from the SE too (NC) and have heard that the smaller NE schools especially Amherst is cautious about admits from the South. I was told that they lose cross admits because of the weather. HYP however, it a total crapshoot. Valedictorians with 2400 SATs are " a dime a dozen" for these schools.</p>

<p>It saddens me that there are parents who spend so much time on CC</p>