<p>My son is a plebe and he is currently struggling with a decision. He is not sure whether he should study Economics or Political Science. He took both courses in high school and did well in both. He excelled at debate, and won a few stock competitions in his class.</p>
<p>He is torn between either one and seems to be stressing over which to choose. I've told him he should study whatever he likes more, but to be honest I think he is indifferent. If he does not plan to make navy a career of his, and is looking to go to law school or get his MBA, what should he do? </p>
<p>If anyone has any advice or can provide background as to where people in either major end up after graduation, I would greatly appreciate it.</p>
<p>flip a coin. maybe with one caveat which may be so far down the road, who'd know.</p>
<p>IF he's thinking a CMU type of MBA, i.e. heavy on the quanitative side, quantitative econ might better serve. othern that, and that's not monumental, in that every Mid takes the calculus, physics, additional engineering courses, well for the most part even with a tiddley winks major, he'll have way more quant stuff than vast majority of his classmates.</p>
<p>your counsel seems on the $ ...take what you prefer. USN certainly won't care between those 2.</p>
<p>On the other hand, in light of our current mess, Obama mighta been better served with the econ vs. the poli sci, especially considering he did his internship in Illinois...:eek:</p>
<p>As someone who went to law school after USNA, it really doesn't matter for law school purposes. IMO, what helps is having the technical background and, quite honestly, good grades. If he wants to do CPA work later, econ probably would be more useful.</p>
<p>I suggest he flip through the course offering book and see which upper level courses appeal to him.</p>
<p>I've always wondered if political science is taught in an objective manner @ USNA. Do the professors/instructors express their opinions? Are the class discussions one big liberal-bashing diatribe? I know some mids have expressed progressive/liberal viewpoints in class only to be labeled communists.</p>
<p>I also have a question regarding majors. I remember reading that the Academy has quotas for certain types of majors they must fill, so does the Academy pick your major, or can you completely choose on your own?</p>
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I've always wondered if political science is taught in an objective manner @ USNA. Do the professors/instructors express their opinions? Are the class discussions one big liberal-bashing diatribe? I know some mids have expressed progressive/liberal viewpoints in class only to be labeled communists.
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<p>Can't speak for current situation but in my day you could say what you wanted. There are Democrats and liberals in the military. Lots of them.</p>
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I also have a question regarding majors. I remember reading that the Academy has quotas for certain types of majors they must fill, so does the Academy pick your major, or can you completely choose on your own?
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<p>A complex question. Historically, there were quotas that were strictly enforced. Then things eased up. Now, there is a move to get USNA to a 65/35 balance between engineering and science majors vs. "humanities" majors. USNA is looking for ways to "incentivize" mids who have the aptitude for a technical major to choose one. The reason is that the USN needs technical majors and the USMC doesn't care what your major is. However, since 75-80% of grads go into the USN, USNA needs to produce a lot of technical majors.</p>
<p>Thus, you should be able to pick your major -- that's the way it usually works. However, there are no guarantees in the military.</p>
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I've always wondered if political science is taught in an objective manner @ USNA. Do the professors/instructors express their opinions? Are the class discussions one big liberal-bashing diatribe? I know some mids have expressed progressive/liberal viewpoints in class only to be labeled communists.
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<p>How silly. On multiple fronts. First, let's be sure political science and its instruction is something very different than politics and one's personal politics. Allegations and comments like this with no evidence are simply that ...allegations and comments with not a shred of evidence beyond to author's personal political views to which she's entitled but may be better expressed on a thread discussing majors.</p>
<p>That said, the other silly notion is that one can teach absent of a personal view of political science (note, not politics). It's like the loons of the '60s used to suggest in the "values clarification" movement that went defunct in about 20 minutes ...one can be "value neutral"...which of course is anything but. It proclaims just that, a value.</p>
<p>It's like one college advisor said so simply and well ...you have to stand somewhere to look at anything. So of course they've a point of view. Btw, that in its purest form, is the reason for tenure. That professors might not be fired for that. Conversely, if it is inconsistent with the prevailing values and culture of their institution and prospective colleagues, there is no obligation to extend the protection of such. </p>
<p>Let's not confuse politics with academics please. btw, I find it grossly unfair for 09mommy to use the inflammatory language of liberal politics. Leave it home please, and stick to the issue. And in any case, if one is making allegations of calling students "communists" then be specific beyond mere gossip. It's unfair and in the end must be considered untrue in the absence of evidence.</p>
<p>Madame, while you might be correct, once again you've made a fully unsubstantiated comment. But I'd suggest we not attack each other.</p>
<p>You've made some aggressive, to date totally unfounded allegations ...</p>
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Are the class discussions one big liberal-bashing diatribe? I know some mids have expressed progressive/liberal viewpoints in class only to be labeled communists.
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<p>one a politicized allegation implying political science classes (and thus the professor who is responsible) bash students who hold what you somehow deem progressive/liberal views, and a second that you state for a fact those students have consequently been "labeled communists." </p>
<p>Again, this is off topic, but in any case allegations such as yours cannot go unchallenged. Put up or move on in this type of observation. Again, you're entitled to your opinion. And that's all it is in the absence of substantiation, which I'm confident will not be forthcoming. So ...back to the point of which major. And let's keep our editorializing out of it, please.</p>
<p>whistle pig also wrote...</p>
<p>overseas-
if Law is the goal, then you may want to consider posting your question on the CC Law forum. Having said that, just remember poly-si majors going into law school are a dime a dozen- most likely because the GPA is the goal, not the undergrad major.</p>
<p>Economics can't hurt, even if he opts for that MBA. But I think the advice you have already given him- to study what is of interest to him- is on target. Looking over the courses offered in both majors, and talking with his academic advisor, may help him sort it out.</p>
<p>Overseas123, has your Mid talked to others in these two majors? Might be worthwhile. In addition to planning for the future, he needs to survive USNA. My Mid is an econ major and is enjoying his major, getting good help from his academic advisor, and hoping to get a summer internship @ the London School of Ecnomics. I know nothing about the Poli Sci major, but also think there's something to be said for challenges of the 4-yr journey they're on.</p>
<p>For those of you that have responded thank you. I will be sure to have him log onto this forum. </p>
<p>NorthernCalMother, he's told me has spoken to kids in his company who are taking both majors. The ones that are taking poli sci say go poli sci. the ones that are taking economics say go economics. Thats great about your mid getting a summer internship at London School of Economics. Off the top of your head do yuo know if he applied for it himself or was it something within the economics department. </p>
<p>Also, he's spoken to his advisor who didn't really have much to say. I guess his next step should be to speak to people within the department and take a look at the course listing.</p>
<p>Navy2010, as far as going to Law school do you think it might be easier for him to earn better marks if he were to take poli sci or economics?</p>
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Navy2010, as far as going to Law school do you think it might be easier for him to earn better marks if he were to take poli sci or economics?
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<p>Please understand that virtually every USNA grad who decides to become a lawyer makes that decision after he/she has completed his/her commitment (there is a very limited exception). As someone who's been there, I can promise you that, more than 5 yrs out of college, other things become more important in your application than your college grades. </p>
<p>First, your job. Most law school students have done nothing in their lives other than attend college, spent a semester abroad, and worked summer jobs. "Older" students who have actually worked in a real job are highly prized.</p>
<p>Second, your LSATs. You need to do well the first time you take them. Wait until you're ready to apply, take a course, and score high. </p>
<p>Third, the fact you attended USNA. Law schools understand SAs. They know that there isn't grade inflation. They see that you're taking Calc, EE, Physics, etc. I panicked when I saw that people needed 3.8 GPAs to get into top law schools -- maybe you do, but not from an SA.</p>
<p>Generally in life, you do better in a course if you enjoy it. If he'd really and truly enjoy either major, he should flip a coin. My guess is that his gut is pulling him one way or the other -- he should follow his gut.</p>
<p>First the question posed as to bias in the classroom is a valid one, one which I have asked my Mid about during Plebe year and the Poly Sci class that is required. Given that most of it is hearsay on my part, I will not post but would ask that if there are any Mids lurking around maybe they can some shed light.</p>
<p>As for not a shred of evidence
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allegations and comments with not a shred of evidence beyond to author's personal political views
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- maybe not evidence that one wants to share on a public forum but I can say with a fact mine has been called a "******* Communist" while in class and the Professor came to my sons aide. He called home right after class horrified at the lack of respect offered by another shipmate. He came from a high school that did not tolerate disrespectful comments, looks or actions in class. To have this happen his first week of "college" left him a bit disappointed to say the least. This was verified with the Professor that we happened to get to meet on a Friday afternoon while visiting my Mid that fall. Luckily he has very thick skin.</p>
<p>Please any Mids out there please let us know what you think is happening "politically" in the classroom. Especially if you see it more in any specific major. If it is like most major Universities (that offer Engineering) where the engineering faculty is more towards conservative and the humanities more liberal.</p>
<p>Okay, my two cents: I did not attend the USNA, but managed to DOUBLE major in Political Science AND Economics, this might be something to consider. I know he would probably need permission from his academic advisor and may need to take an extra class here or there...but it can be done. The two majors do complement (overlap)each other, I enjoyed the way they interacted very much. Just a thought. My husband did attend USNA and he double majored--Systems Engineering and Computer Science.</p>
<p>My son had to put in preferences for his majors and he put the following:</p>
<p>1.) Economics
2.) Ocean Engineering
3.) Political Science</p>
<p>For some reason all plebes had to put a STEM major in one of their top 2 choices. He ended up putting economics because he feels it will be a more practical major than political science. Also, the fact that he can choose electives in poli sci made it easier for him to decide. He got a chance to visit the forum and really appreciated the input many of you had to say. Thank you.</p>
<p>While both might prove to be more practical than could be imagined, if yours sees poli sci as anything but critical to making his way in the Navy or other governmental agency ...well, he'll probly get a common-law Ph.D. in the world of politics before it's all over.</p>
<p>Reason for STEM is the Academy is targeted with requiring this class to have </p>
<h2>
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<a href="http://www.usna.edu/AcDean/talks/12MjrsBrf.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.usna.edu/AcDean/talks/12MjrsBrf.pdf</a> Effective for midshipmen entering fall of 2009 as members of the Class of 2013 USNA will ensure a minimum of 65% complete a technical degree program before receiving a Navy commission.</h2>
<h2>USNA goal is to increase plebe selection of technical majors to about 70% to assure USN goal of 65% at graduation.</h2>
<p>The Navy’s goal of increasing the mathematics, science and engineering knowledge and skills of its officer corps applies to NROTC Navy Option programs--not just USNA.
Henceforth, NROTC scholarships will be available on a priority basis to those who select and remain in STEM majors.</p>
<p>The Superintendent has stated that, for the Class of 2012, a midshipman’s major will be considered at the time of service assignment. Details have not yet been formulated.</p>
<p>While it is expected that most midshipmen in the Class of 2012 will be assigned to their first choices of major, the needs of the Naval Service and the resources of this institution are paramount. </p>
<p>Each plebe will be required to include at least one STEM major among his/her top two choices.</p>
<p>Caution: Typically, about 100 3/C midshipmen change their major within the very first semester of selecting it. Another 30 will follow before 1/C. Most of these changes are accompanied by poor grades and discontent.
Principal reasons are a failure to:
–investigate major sufficiently, or
–suitably match interests/talents to the major, or
–appreciate nature of very first course in the major
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<p>^^^Valuable information for future candidates and incoming plebes. Thanks Profmom2.</p>