^^^
Interestingly, according to the manager, they only prevent people under 21 from entering during late night hours when it is very busy. Typically people under 21 are allowed in late at night. When Martese found out this was a night they weren’t letting under 21 year olds in, he calmly left.
@ChrisTKD I am not arguing that there aren’t places that people call “bars” in VA. I was simply pointing out that technically there is a difference, and it makes a big difference in how they do business versus bars in other states. Do you live in VA? I spent 5 of my 6 decades there; was involved in the restaurant business; researched the laws for one of my jobs; have been a frequent visitor to many of these establishments. My son is also currently a bouncer/doorman at one of these businesses in a major VA college town. You might say you guarantee that “there are ones that prohibit those under 21 from entering”, but I will say that I have never seen one. At least not ones that only allow over 21 to be the only people that ever enter the establishment.
Like the Trinity Pub, his “bar” lets in anyone of any age most of the time. Occasionally when they are busy late at night they limit it to 21 and over. I have also been to most of the bars at UVA with my kid and her underage friends. When I visit we go and listen to bands, and the business does not allow them to order alcohol.
Finally, as you said, we don’t really know if he was belligerent to the ABC agents. We know that he was not agitated 30 seconds before that, but who knows what happened as they started to interrogate him. If that was me and I had just legally tried to enter a restaurant with a valid ID, but had been turned away when informed that it was currently only open to 21 and over, I would have been pissed that they were trying to insinuate that I was breaking the law.
My dad was a cop. Some of my best friends are cops. Despite that, I still get upset with cops who don’t do their job properly. I got pulled over recently and accused of something I did not do. I tried reasoning with the cop and when that didn’t work I got agitated. He eventually backed down and let me go. I can get away with that because I am a middle aged white guy and he knew I would fight him in court and win. I can’t imagine being a young black kid and knowing that you don’t have the option of sticking up for yourself in a situation like that.
My guess is that Johnson didn’t immediately say “yes massa” to the cops when he was asked to produce ID and they decided to make an example of him. That is BS, and I will bet he ends up might happy over what happened, and that the “officers” end up mighty unhappy with what happened. Can you say “six figure settlement”.
The Trinity owner said Johnson “grabbed” his ID and walked away when he was denied entry. Interesting that he didn’t say “took” his ID. This suggests he was agitated and if he was then confronted by the ABC officers, things likely got out of hand which resulted in the arrest and injury. Still waiting for the facts to come out. It stinks that the ABC officers weren’t wearing body cams as they had pledged to do after the Harris Teeter incident.
@TV4caster - Yes I live in Virginia and have plenty of experience entering bars both legally and illegally as a youth. You may not have ever been to a bar that limits access to those 21 and over. I can’t say I’ve done a survey but I’ve been to a college town the last couple of years with a bar that carded at the door. Under 21 no entrance. I do know of other bars will allow entrance to under 21 but stamp your hand with a mark that signifies your age. The Trinity Pub admits that it restricted access on the night in question. It’s their right to do so as long as they apply the rule equally to all entrants. If the bar is busy they want patrons over 21 who can legally drink. They also do not want a busy waiter to mistakenly provide alcohol to an underage patron. Since you have been in the restaurant business you understand that the ability to sell alcohol is, more many establishments, the key to profitability. Selling to underage patrons can put that license at risk of seizure by the ABC.
Teenagers and young adults generally do not particularly like police because the police are enforcers of the rules. The police look at teenagers and young adults as potential trouble-makers (regardless of race). They certainly looked at us that way growing up in Virginia. Quite frankly we, as a group, were knuckle heads. We caused trouble and the cops had to deal with drunk kids all the time. We knew enough though not to tick the police off. Over the years I’ve read many instances of problems that happen when people get agitated and the cops arguably over react. It happens whether the person is black or white. Sometimes they luck out and the cop is calm. Other times the cop is having a bad day OR you run into a bad cop. In my humble opinion it’s best to take a deep breath and not be confrontational with the police regardless of whether you feel you are in the right.
Being responsive to the police is not the same as saying “yes massa”. The rules of behavior are the same regardless of whether you are white, black, or Asian. At this point we don’t know what happened with the initial interaction with the ABC. Everyone is inserting their conjecture as to what might have happened.
I don’t know all the facts, but I was shocked that this young “honors student” used foul language at the ABC officers. His lack of respect for authority is troubling and largely ignored by the media and UVA. Didn’t his parents teach him to respect police officers? Where’s the outrage?
I have been to plenty that were only for 21 and over. My point is that at some point each evening, every one of those same “bars” allowed people under 21 years old to enter.
I agree with you (in most cases), but we don’t know what he did or didn’t do.
@SeattleTW I have the upmost respect for police officers, but if I was slammed to the ground for no reason and suffered a serious injury, I am sure I would be cursing them too (and I don’t even curse).
Unless I were drinking or nuts, I’d never curse at an official carrying a side arm. If that young man were my son, I’d tell him that he was lucky he sustained only head injuries.
Being in the right, and even being respectful, will not keep you from being injured or killed by the police.
Let the investigation proceed; there were plenty of witnesses present who can say what they observed.
It appears that the situation “looked” like the UVA guy was turned away for using a fake ID.
The bar owner didn’t look at his age on the ID. The bar owner didn’t turn him away for being 20 when the establishment was limiting admission to 21 year olds. He asked him for the zip code on the ID and the student answered incorrectly. Which is often a tell tale for a fake ID. So the bar owner turned him away. Even though the ID was real. The ABC officers were patrolling the Corner (no surprise since it was St. Patricks Day) and presumably approached the student with the reasonable (although mistaken) suspicion that the student had a fake ID. We don’t know what happened when the ABC officers confronted the student since that was not captured on tape.
But the student (white, red, black or brown) should be calm and talking with plenty of Yes Sirs and No Sirs. And the officers should be calm and respectful too.
My guess is that the student and the officers are both at fault for escalating the encounter.
"Badke did not look at Johnson’s birth date before asking him for the ZIP code on his ID shortly before 1 a.m., as he commonly does with patrons trying to gain entry. When Johnson gave his mother’s ZIP code instead of the number on his dated Illinois license, Badke “immediately responded that he could not accept it.”
^^^^^^ and when Badke denied him entry, Johnson “grabbed” his ID and walked away, which suggests that he was agitated. Agree with @northwesty that probably both are at fault…Johnson likely did not likely show proper respect and the officers likely overreacted.
^^^
@robertr where did you get the above quote? or if that is not a quote, the word “grabbed” when referring to taking his ID. The quoted article from the owner mentions nothing of the kind.
Edited to add- and if the grabbing reference is from another article, which one do you think is correct? I’d go with the statement put out by the Pub (and the man who carded him) that says he was “cordial” and “respectful”.
From Cavalier Daily article.
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/article/2015/03/trinity-owner-martese-johnson
“He grabbed his ID and walked away — it was business as usual,” Badke said. “I went back to carding other patrons that were coming in, and then I heard a commotion. I turned around, and he was on the ground.”
I’m also wondering why this thread is titled “Student Beaten by Police”? Do we know for a fact that he was beaten (i.e. kicked and punched)? Or did he cut his head during the scuffle trying to put handcuffs on him? His injuries certainly don’t suggest that he was beaten.
@robertr that is a good point. I probably should have said “roughed up” or “injured”.
From the video it appears the officers were only restraining a very agitated and belligerent youth cursing and using accusatory and other foul language, while pleading that he was a UVA student. It will be interesting to see what other facts unfold.
^^^^ @SeattleTW
What is your guess? Was he agitated and belligerent and that is why they took him down, or do you think they took him down and that is why he became upset?
IMO, and I’m am attorney who has witnessed such behavior, he likely mouthed off to the ABC officers and didn’t follow their instructions. Also, he was tested by a breathalyzer and not legally “intoxicated”; however, that doesn’t mean he had no alcohol in his system. That he was cursing, etc., suggests he had been drinking and partially explains his bravado. As far as his injuries, facial cuts cause much bleeding because of capillaries and always appear more serious, despite the stiches. And finally, whether he was thrown to the ground or fell remains to be seen.
^^^^^ Exactly what I have been thinking. Of course, the behavior of the ABC officers in the Harris Teeter incident has understandably led many to conclude that the ABC officers were likely unprovoked in this situation.
^^^
OK, fair enough. Now let me ask you this. If he did give them lip, would that, in your opinion, give them the right to throw him to the ground? (if that is what happened). As a lawyer, what kind of behavior from a client would justify LE hurting your client like that?
There is no right to throw anyone to the ground unless he were resisting arrest or provoking an altercation, neither of which has been alleged. Nonetheless, there are not enough facts to jump to the conclusion that the officers caused the injuries. He could have fallen or the officers could have tried to restrain him and they all or some of them could have fallen with him. The officers do not appear to be using unreasonable force in the video, however.