Student Financial Services plays "Gotcha!"

Colleges and Universities A-Z Smith College
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<p>Got D's 2006-2007 financial aid award today. (Among the last, because one piece of paper didn't get turned in when it should have...my fault.) </p>

<p>Not a happy camper.</p>

<p>D will not be on campus next year, participating in Smith-approved off-campus programs instead. </p>

<p>Thus she can not have a work study component to her financial aid.</p>

<p>Which Smith is replacing with a Perkins loan. Instead of a grant.</p>

<p>I guess they figure that she's just deferring "work study" to future "work." But from my pov (and hers), they're penalizing her by adding on an encumbrance that she wouldn't otherwise have as a "reward" for taking an off-campus program. Feh. </p>

<p>So far I've got to say that rumor is true...every year the FinAid is a little less appealing than the year before.</p>

<p>I'm going to talk to them. But in 14 hours I'm leaving for almost two weeks, so it will have to wait.</p>

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<p>Well, to offer a counterpoint: our d. will be in Florence all next year. We think the replacement of work-study with a Perkins loan is more than fair - it is what makes study abroad possible, projecting the need for repayment on to future semesters or years.</p>

<p>My d's award took account of the $1,600 increase in health insurance. It did not take account of the travel expenses (we got a measly grant from the international study office), nor the higher expenses to be borne while study abroad, that they asked us, in advance of applying, to plan on.</p>

<p>Would we have wanted more? You bet. Do we think it fair? Hey - Princeton charges an extra $1k just for permission to study abroad, even in it's own sponsored programs! </p>

<p>I don't see it as a "gotcha". I see it as the college making it possible for lower income students to study abroad even when they cannot be expect to be on work-study.</p>

3

<p>Mini, some student supplied income, such as work-study and/or summer work, vaporizes when a student takes an internship and/or studies abroad. There are, as you noted, additional costs as well. The piling up of additional loans tilts such programs toward students from wealthier families. We're in the middle...we <em>can</em> do it, if with pain...don't think the opportunities are worth passing up. However, I can see many families looking at the economics and saying "Pass."</p>

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<p>[[We think the replacement of work-study with a Perkins loan is more than fair - it is what makes study abroad possible, projecting the need for repayment on to future semesters or years.]]
[[The piling up of additional loans tilts such programs toward students from wealthier families
[[We're in the middle...we <em>can</em> do it, if with pain]]</p>

<p>I’ve haven’t had to deal with the financial aid so I’m a bit confused, and I know I’m missing something here.</p>

<p>But if Smith is substituting a Perkins loan in lieu of work study, what does the wealth of a student’s family have to do with studying abroad? My wife paid back her loans after she graduated and became employed. I assume if studying abroad is important enough to a women, she would also be willing to assume a small amount of additional debt in exchange for the experience of going abroad, if only for a semester</p>

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<p>With my sister's graduation, and me becoming a junior, the finaid package took a definite dump at Wellesley as well. My mother wasn't thrilled, but she was happy to not that it was still a better deal than my sister's last year at the College of the Holy Cross (which included them paying for my college as well). It's the first year that outside scholarships didn't replace a loan (and Wellesley counted one that we don't know whether I got when making my package).
It's also my understanding that Wellesley gives you a slightly larger portion of loans as you become and "adult" regardless of abroad or not. Abroad is a sticky issue, since there are hidden costs with rebuying things overseas, different housing and meals and travel expenses. In England my sister wasn't allowed to do ANY work, undoing the vast amounts of money she went through.</p>

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<p>Abroad is a sticky issue, since there are hidden costs with rebuying things overseas, different housing and meals and travel expenses]]</p>

<p>Are those expenses incurred out-of-pocket immediately? Or can a woman borrow enough to cover the travel, etc? If not, then TD’s remarks become completely understandable.</p>

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<p>I believe my sister's school put some amount of money toward her plane tickets, but that wasn't the whole cost, as she went home for Christmas break, and my family went to England to see that place she was living. She went through a bunch of money she earned the summer before, calling my parents to transfer money from her savings to her checking as she went through it.</p>

<p>My parents also enjoyed the letter from the school informing them that the room was actually more than they were billed for, and that they needed to pay several hundred dollars more both semesters. Presumably if this charge wasn't dumped on them, finaid might have covered some. But this isn't Smith.</p>

<p>Being in England for a long time with weird breaks lent wonderful opportunites for my sister to see the pretty much all of Europe. Expensive (even with the 37p flights and the $25 buck a night hostels), but also an opportunity that she won't be getting again, and I never will, not going abroad. The exchange rate was also at a peak at that time.</p>

<p>My sister was unlucky enough to be both homesick and unable to sleep. She spend a ton of money on phone calls home at times when US people should have been going to bed.</p>

<p>I guess if you didn't have a lot of money in a bank account before leaving you could take out a loan for incidentals independently, but probably not through the school.</p>

<p>My sister had to buy transformers for her computer and all her stuff, a bike(dugustingly expensive for being a rusty used bike), a cell phone that would work in Europe, bedding among other things.</p>

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<p>The Perkins loans substitutes for work study money and summer earnings which the student otherwise would have if not for internship/abroad. It is not useful at all for covering upfront costs such as airline tickets, wardrobe, and renting an apartment. </p>

<p>Moreover, the value of such internships/abroad programs being indisputable, the extra out of pocket costs are substantial and tilt the programs towards students from wealthier families. Perhaps if one is already writing checks for the full amount, this is a non-issue.</p>

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<p>The Perkins loans substitutes for work study money and summer earnings which the student otherwise would have if not for internship/abroad. It is not useful at all for covering upfront costs such as airline tickets, wardrobe, and renting an apartment.]]</p>

<p>I should have been clearer. There are numerous other forms of loans available to students. The Student Signature loan being one extremely popular addition to the Perkins.</p>

<p>It’s also “Available for study abroad programs”
<a href="http://www.salliemae.com/get_student_loan/find_student_loan/undergrad_student_loan/private_student_loans/signature/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.salliemae.com/get_student_loan/find_student_loan/undergrad_student_loan/private_student_loans/signature/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I’m not trying to be argumentative but I’m still confused. I’m not sure why a student needs a new wardrobe to study in England, France, etc. But I’m not a women, so I’m totally ignorant with regards to wardrobe necessities. And why would a student need an apt? With many of the programs, the students reside at the college. Or they can find a family to live with for an extremely reasonable fee. My brother allows financially challenged college exchange students to stay in his guest quarters gratis. I have no idea if there are European families who do anything similar but it’s something to look into. </p>

<p>If you purchase tickets far enough in advance, you can get roundtrip tickets for 4-5 hundred to most countries. I’ve done it so that expense can be kept to a minimum. Additionally, if a woman studies abroad for only one semester, there isn’t an issue with Christmas vacation and additional tickets. I guess I’m more of the impression, if there is a will, a Smith woman will find a way. Isn’t that what makes Smithies, Smithies? :)</p>

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<p>I think the Perkins loans are like the outside scholarships I get. I don't actually get the money, just someone else pays that chunk of my bill. In the case of the loan, I will owe later for it.</p>

<p>My sister was one of six HC students to go to Oxford that year. Three lived in building that wasn't unlike an American dormitory. She and another shared a house (with about 8 other students) that the college owned. It was analogous to apartment style living here, except you never would have believed that many people could live in a building that size. I can't remember where the other guy lived (it might have been that dorm building). I don't think there was any reason that my sister got that house as opposed to the dorms. While room costs "transferred", we were still paying to rent that apartment. Board was not covered, and my parents made my sister pay for the food she ate, which she provided at the local Tesco and purchased some individual meals at the college dining hall at about $7 apiece.</p>

<p>Also, parents wouldn't be moving their 20 year old abroad, meaning they can't get around the airline baggage limits by counting the extra bras as "dad's" luggage. It's like moving into college for the first time, but you can't take all the stuff you bought before your freshman year even though you'll be using it again senior year. You really can just take those two suitcases and a carry-on. Winter clothes are a space killer, so you would want to buy some more clothes as you see fit, or are trying to add time to when you absolutely need laundry done. Or buy whatever you didn't bring because you thought paying for another winter coat was a dumb idea.</p>

<p>My sister did use a discount site to book her tickets, but $400 isn't chump change.</p>

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<p>[[meaning they can't get around the airline baggage limits by counting the extra bras as "dad's" luggage.]]</p>

<p>LOL-- I forgot about that. When we went overseas, the women in the family <em>borrowed</em> part of my luggage space, but they did so b/c we had no intention of doing laundry. The overseas baggage limits are 75lbs/per bag, as opposed to 50 lbs for local US flights. A woman needs more than 175 lbs (I included carry-on) of clothes at a time?
Just kidding, :) I realize 175 lbs of clothes sounds like a lot more than it is.</p>

<p>I understand what you saying about buying clothes. But why buy clothes in Europe when they are much more expensive due to the weak dollar? It might be cheaper to pay the airlines an overweight baggage fee or ship them, if possible. And if you do buy clothes abroad, how do you get them home without going over the baggage limit?</p>

<p>With most programs sanctioned by Smith, your room and board is covered. If room or board aren’t covered, you’re not paying Smith either, so those finances are at your disposal to use in Europe</p>

<p>[[My sister did use a discount site to book her tickets, but $400 isn't chump change.]]</p>

<p>I certainly didn’t intended to imply $400-$500 was an inconsequential sum. It’s a great deal of money for any college student. I simply meant paying the loan—over a period of yrs, if you so choose-- for airfare, plus other incidentals, doesn’t seem a big enough burden to warrant foregoing the amazing experiences and memories you’ll have for a lifetime by not studying abroad.</p>

<p>I’m very familiar with being burdened with debt after graduation. It took yrs to retire my wife's loans. But I believe if you ask her, every dime borrowed was returned a hundredfold in various ways. To some students, graduating with as little debt as possible is more important. In the end, it’s a personal choice each student has to make.</p>

<p>I can support a decision being made either way. Incurring debt can be burdensome and an emotional drain for many. Europe will still be there after graduation.</p>

<p>There are those who argue they would rather travel extensively around Europe after college b/c they would see a great deal more, be much more relaxed due to not having the stress of classes, etc. Not a bad point ;)</p>

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<p>"Winter clothes are a space killer, so you would want to buy some more clothes as you see fit, or are trying to add time to when you absolutely need laundry done. "</p>

<p>My trick to avoiding this is to wear as much on your person as you can stand - boots, winter coat, sweaters... Yes, you'll be mildly uncomfortable until you can strip the extra clothes off and throw them in the overhead compartment, but it will save an enormous amount of poundage in your suitcases. I used this trick every time I flew Ryan Air/Easy Jet (which are <em>very</em> strict about weight allowances).</p>

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<p>My trick to avoiding this is to wear as much on your person as you can stand - boots, winter coat, sweaters..]]</p>

<p>I imagine you get strange looks if you're flying out of San Diego, etc.</p>

<p>All kidding aside, I showed your post to my Smithie wife and she’s still laughing. You’re in contention for “post of the month”</p>

<p>I wish I had though of your idea when I went skiing in Switzerland. I was over by 4 lbs and British Air made a <em>huge</em> deal out of the extra weigh and wanted to charge me. As it were, I managed to get some more clothes in the ski bag, but it was a real hassle.</p>

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<p>My aunt once went 69.5 and 70 lbs respectively for an international flight. Her secret? Pre-weighing baggage on the bathroom scale at home. :)</p>

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<p>"My trick to avoiding this is to wear as much on your person as you can stand - boots, winter coat, sweaters..]]</p>

<p>I imagine you get strange looks if you're flying out of San Diego, etc."</p>

<p>Or flying anywhere in August, but hey, you do what you gotta do. </p>

<p>"I wish I had though of your idea when I went skiing in Switzerland. I was over by 4 lbs and British Air made a <em>huge</em> deal out of the extra weigh and wanted to charge me. As it were, I managed to get some more clothes in the ski bag, but it was a real hassle."</p>

<p>Ryan Air in the UK charged me over £100 for excess baggage fees when my luggage was over the limit after a semester spent studying abroad. It's amazing how quickly you will reprioritize your belongings when faced with fees that steep - books, shoes, CD cases... all discarded to alleviate weight. The Brits are not kidding about closely abiding to their weight rules.</p>

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<p>I don't what airlines you fly, but Lufthansa, British Air, Air India and all the Americans going abroad - economy class - have 2 bag, 50lb limits.</p>

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<p>[I don't what airlines you fly, but Lufthansa, British Air, Air India and all the Americans going abroad - economy class - have 2 bag, 50lb limits.]</p>

<p>I called British Air, and I did make a minor error. I was off by 5 lbs. You’re allowed two bags at <em>70</em> lbs each not 75 lbs, as I mistakenly stated. I guess the memory is the 1st thing to go with age. :)
I haven’t flown the other two airlines, so you may very well be right about their 50 lb limit.</p>

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<p>From the British Air website:</p>

<p>"Maximum weight and size </p>

<p>We will not accept any item of baggage that weighs more than 23kg (50lbs) or oversized items exceeding 2.4m x 0.75m x 0.75m (94in x 29in x 29in). </p>

<p>Advance notification is required 24 hours before departure for exceptional items that weigh between 23kg - 45kg (50 - 90lbs) and which cannot be repacked e.g. musical instruments, electrical wheelchairs, some sporting items, TV news cameras, commercial spares."</p>

<p>They are in the midst of changing their policies, too. For some classes of passengers, starting October 11th, it will only be one free bag.</p>