Student from low-income family

Applying to College
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<p>Most schools are need-blind. Relatively few have good need-based financial aid. Most of these are the richest and most selective private schools. For public schools, only Virginia and North Carolina (Chapel Hill) give good need-based financial aid to out-of-state students, although California publics and some others give good need-based financial aid to in-state students only, and many others have large merit scholarships.</p>

<p>To check need-based financial aid, find the net price calculator on each school’s web site. Schools with good financial aid typically expect a student contribution of $4,000 to $10,000, from federal direct loan (up to $5,500) and/or some student work earnings. While many of the best need-based financial aid schools claim to “meet 100% of demonstrated need”, note that “need” is calculated by the school and varies from school to school, and expected student contribution also varies, potentially giving very different net prices at schools that “meet 100% of demonstrated need”.</p>

<p>Large merit scholarships can be found in these lists:
<a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Competitive Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #50 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>Competitive Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #50 by BobWallace - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums;
<a href=“http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/”>http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/&lt;/a&gt;
Some public schools may also offer large merit scholarships only to in-state students. (What state are you a resident of?)</p>

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<p>Be careful with Michigan. Net price calculator experiments indicate that there is a financial aid cliff where, for an out-of-state student, the net price can jump from under $10,000 to $22,000 or so for a small increment in income. While an out-of-state student from a very low income family can get a low net price at Michigan, if the family income increases before the student graduates, s/he may be forced out if that puts him/her over the financial aid cliff.</p>

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<p>^ That is true. There is always a risk when the family income change, one way or the other. If that <$35k income is from 1 parent and the second parent starts to work and earn some money that bring the total income up $10-$20k, it may make Umich not so affordable. The big cut off is near $65k though.</p>

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<p>Actually, when I ran Michigan’s net price calculator, I found the cliff under $40,000.
<a href=“Is UMich a good choice for OOS students? - #6 by ucbalumnus - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums”>Is UMich a good choice for OOS students? - #6 by ucbalumnus - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums;

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<p>@kandcsmom </p>

<p>Need blind doesn’t mean that they don’t know how much money you need. They will see all that info because of the FASFA. It means that applying for financial aid will not be held against you in admissions. They are blind to finances and “need” when you are applying. </p>

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<p>So then why would they pick the student who needs more aid?</p>

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<p>They may find the low-income student’s story (essays + stats) more compelling.</p>

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<p>Thank you @scholarme THAT makes sense. </p>

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<p>@ucbalumnus That is interesting. This is the new NPC that UMich just migrated to it in the last couple months. I am not sure if it has been thoroughly tested yet. There was some issue initially when they first start using it and that was reported here. When I checked the NPC there last time months ago, it was using a different NPC directly on their website and the numbers were quire different.
In any case, they do not guarantee need met for oos and only the very low income family may get significant help from them.</p>

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<p>Here is the link for the issue found at UMich NPC when it was migrated to CB in early June.
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/1657460-net-price-calculator-not-working.html#latest”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-michigan-ann-arbor/1657460-net-price-calculator-not-working.html#latest&lt;/a&gt;
I am not surprised if that cliff is due to another error in their system.</p>

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<p>@Anniebeats FAFSA data are not available when reviewing all ED or EA application and even many RD applications for both need blind or need sensitive school. The peak for FAFSA submission is in Feb and March. For schools that require CSS profile, the school may have the financial information earlier, nevertheless, the deadline for CSS profile submission is often near the admission notice of EA/ED. Need sensitive schools may still use that data in their final decision. For need blind schools, it is not likely to have sufficient time to go through the CSS profiles of all applicants but the one they are likely to admit anyway to prepare financial aid package.
However, schools may ask for your family income information or intention to apply financial aid on the application.</p>

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<p>@kandcsmom I’m sorry if I confused you. Where did you need more clarification?</p>

<p>In an earlier post, I said that low income students have less access to things like private tutors, private college counselors, and SAT prep. If they get the same scores, or even scores that are slightly lower than someone who is wealthy, it will show how driven they are. They did a lot, with a little, instead of a wealthy person doing a lot with a lot.</p>

<p>That is why colleges with huge endowments take them. Because they are very motivated.</p>

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<p>@AnnieBeats‌
She was wondering how they would know that a student is low income if they are need blind as financial information isn’t supposed to be used in the decision and assuming based off of which school a student attends or other known characteristics doesn’t work. </p>

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<p>@theanaconda‌
But even still, I said “Need blind doesn’t mean that they don’t know how much money you need. They will see all that info because of the FASFA. It means that applying for financial aid will not be held against you in admissions. They are blind to finances and “need” when you are applying”. </p>

<p>Perhaps the FASFA isn’t true for ED or EA, but @kandcsmom on applications, there is a part where you indicate whether or not you will apply for aid. But oh well </p>

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<p>AnnieBeats wrote:</p>

<p>“For need blind schools, if two students have the same stats, one is low income and one is wealthy, the low income kid would probably get chosen 99% of the time.”</p>

<p>No. That’s what people who think that low income applicants have it so easy think. Yes some colleges do actively seek the top low income students, but they can’t fill their entire class with them or they’d soon no longer be able to continue doing what they do. They still need a majority of full pay students, or at least those with low need. </p>

<p>@Sherim1004 as for the colleges which are need blind, if your common application and supplemental essays, or even your address, don’t give away that you will need a lot of financial aid, then they will look at your qualifications no differently than those who will be paying the full amount. That would truly be a need blind situation. But most low income students have compelling stories to tell which do indicate their financial situation and the application would be lacking without that information. For colleges which have large endowments and are very generous, it isn’t a problem. But for colleges which may claim to be need blind, but want to or have to limit the number they can accept in a given year, that info may adversely affect your chances. And then there are college which don’t claim to be need blind, but do meet 100% of need based on their calculations, but honestly the full pay students will likely be more attractive to them. It’s a reality. But they will accept some with high need so you do your best and apply and hope to be admitted, just like everyone else.</p>

<p>None of this means that you won’t have a decent chance getting into a highly selective school and getting the financial aid you need to attend. As was mentioned, SAT/ACT/PSAT scores are important as is your course schedule, GPA, extra curriculars, leadership, and volunteer and work experience. </p>

<p>@AnnieBeats your understanding of need blind is wrong. The financial aid department is separate from the admissions department. FAFSA and other financial info goes to the financial aid dept and applications go to admissions. As I mentioned it may still be apparent from the application what a student’s financial need is. Theoretically it won’t count against them in admissions, but if they know what their financial situation is based on application essays, then they are no longer “blind”. </p>

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<p>@SoMuch2Learn I don’t think it is easier for low income students to get in. I think that it is just as hard for them as it is for another student, relative to their situation. </p>

<p>With regard to your point on balancing the amount of full pay and low income students: Colleges balance this out by admitting more international students that are full pay. Need blind collegs don’t hold being low income against you. At need aware colleges, they admit more full pay students in order to try to help more low income students.</p>

<p>My understanding isn’t wrong. Need blind doesn’t mean that they don’t know what your financial situation is. It means that they won’t use it to consider whether or not you will be admitted. You may be confusing being need blind with meeting full need. I think that’s the underlying point of this discussion. You said that colleges may not be able to carry the weight of a lot of low income students, and they do that by giving them smaller packages. That means that they don’t meet full need. It doesn’t mean they aren’t need blind.</p>

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<p>@AnnieBeats with all due respect, have you even been through the admissions process yet? Are you even low income? From past threads, you may debate whether you’re upper or middle, but there is no question about low income. Many who are not low income give great into to low income families, but they have been through the admissions process, have some good and accurate information on the process or have even been a part of the admissions process at a college. </p>

<p>FYI, while it’s a small number, some need blind schools offer the same for foreign students. As for what you said I said, your “paraphrasing” is definitely misrepresenting what I did say. At no point did I say they give smaller packages to carry the weight of low income students. You do this on a lot of threads and enough is enough.</p>

<p>From Wiki:</p>

<p>Need-blind admission
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>

<p>Need-blind admission is a term used in the United States denoting a college admission policy in which the admitting institution does not consider an applicant’s financial situation when deciding admission. Generally, an increase in students admitted under a need-blind policy and needing financial aid requires the institution to back the policy with an ample endowment or source of funding. Being need-blind is a statutory requirement for institutions to participate in an anti-trust exemption granted by Congress which remains in effect until September 30, 2015. An institution may be need-blind in any given year by policy (de jure) or by circumstances (de facto).</p>

<p>Most colleges and universities cannot afford to offer financial aid to all admitted students and many will admit all students on a need blind basis but cannot offer them sufficient aid to meet need. Many schools who admit all U.S. citizens or resident aliens without regard to need do not extend this policy to international students or to transfer students. Therefore schools, especially private ones, which are need-blind and full-need for all applicants, including internationals, tend to be much more selective as they have relatively more applicants than other similar schools.</p>

<p>Need-blind admission does not necessarily mean a “full-need” financial aid policy—where the school agrees to meet the full demonstrated financial need of all its admitted students. Indeed, the two policies can be in tension because need-blind admissions and full-need financial aid together commit the school to spend an undetermined amount of money regardless of other budgetary constraints. Thus, some need-blind schools will admit students who will nonetheless not be able to attend because of deficient financial aid awards.</p>

<p>Institutions self-define their definition of meeting full demonstrated need. There is no U.S. standard that an institution must abide by to claim that they meet fully demonstrated need. Therefore, an applicant’s financial aid package can vary significantly at various schools, even if all of these institutions claim to meet fully demonstrated need.</p>

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<p>This Peterson’s article also explains need blind admissions.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.petersons.com/college-search/college-financial-aid-blind.aspx”>http://www.petersons.com/college-search/college-financial-aid-blind.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>It explains it as a “firewall” between admissions and financial aid so the student’s finances aren’t known and therefore not taken into consideration. They do say that even if they do know finances from the address or application, they aren’t supposed to let that factor into their decision, but they also say that those who truly are need blind number only about 8 to 10 whereas many more claim to be. I would think it’s more than that, but who knows.</p>

<p>OP apply to the reaches and hope, but find some safeties (guaranteed aid and admission highly likely) and apply to them as well. If you apply early to some safeties, the admissions process and waiting will be much less stressful and you’ll already have a good option. </p>

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<p>@SoMuch2Learn‌ </p>

<p>1) If you must know, yes, I have been through the admissions process and my daughter will be attending college after her gap year.</p>

<p>2) Wikipedia is where I got my information as well.</p>

<p>3) Why the attitude?</p>

<p>4) Colleges consider whether or not you are low income to determine how many opportunities you have had access to. That is a FACT. That’s how a kid on here with a 1700 SAT got into Stanford. Because he went through extraordinary financial circumstances.</p>

<p>5) “Need-blind admission does not necessarily mean a “full-need” financial aid policy—where the school agrees to meet the full demonstrated financial need of all its admitted students. Indeed, the two policies can be in tension because need-blind admissions and full-need financial aid together commit the school to spend an undetermined amount of money regardless of other budgetary constraints. Thus, some need-blind schools will admit students who will nonetheless not be able to attend because of deficient financial aid awards.” — I said this already.</p>

<p>6) No, I’m not poor. But not being poor doesn’t mean that I can’t empathize with someone’s situation. I didn’t grow up in a wealthy household. </p>

<p>7) “As for what you said I said, your “paraphrasing” is definitely misrepresenting what I did say. At no point did I say they give smaller packages to carry the weight of low income students. You do this on a lot of threads and enough is enough.”<---- This is totally uncalled for, especially since you are wrong. I never said that YOU said that. I was interjecting my own opinion into the conversation. When I said, </p>

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, that was my own opinion. </p>

<p>8) My past threads have nothing to do with this.</p>

<p>“Enough is enough”? We have never even spoken before. Why are you being so hostile towards me? If I offended you at one point, please tell me when.</p>

<p>9) Please don’t patronize me because you don’t agree with what I am saying.</p>

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<p>Annie Beats…my daughter went to a need blind and meets full need school, and it has NO student loans. She worked in admissions extensivly while she was there. Admissions read the apps and admit students without knowing parental finances. They may have some idea by zip code or parents occuupation or education level, but those are not always accurate indicators. My daughters zip code would indicate that we lived in one of the top 20 counties in the USA for income per capita. In reality we were below the poverty line. Her school was also need biind for internationals…they were not admitted solely as cash cows.</p>