<p>In some places (most? all?), a student spends a semester outside the college teaching in a school, right? Does anyone know how the classes work during that semester? Does the student have to have all his/her requirements done in another semester (taking more than the allowable number of classes)? Do they do the classes at night? Do they just have less slots available? In other words, if the school allows (just for the sake of numbers) 4 classes per semester, that totals 32 slots, but if the student teaches for one semester, that only leaves 28 slots to do the major/education work. Does anyone have any idea who this often works because I'm babbling!!</p>
<p>Fifteen years ago, here's how it worked: we took "courses" named Teaching Practicum that had a catalogue number within the Education Department. Those courses were counted towards the total number of expected courses for the educational certification and school's degree requirement. We barely set foot in the university during those months, but technically we were enrolled in a university course. We met once in the term with the professor but that was on-site on the school grounds (in a hallway, generally) whose purpose was to check in with our supervising teacher and then us. We didn't meet with the prof in a university classroom that term, but that way the prof is responsible professorially for our work that term.</p>
<p>Thanks Paying3! How did you fit in all your classes for your major without that semester?</p>
<p>Often students complete their major courses first and do their student teaching later, adding another semester or 2 to their undergrad years. It is possible to get everything in with careful planning. It might mean taking summer classes. It is easier for students who are majoring in education than for students who are majoring in something else and trying to pick up a teacher certification also.</p>
<p>My experience, also about 15 years ago, was about the same as P3T's. It was so hard to go to the bursar and pay tuition for that semester (still the full amount) when I knew I would get a couple of hours of an adjunct prof's time and be working hard for free. That part still doesn't seem fair to me. I've been a supervising teacher a number of times since then, and the student teachers' universities paid me about $400, which I did not actually keep due to my own contract provisions that don't allow me to earn money from another source while I'm on duty time. In some cases, the student teachers were paying 12K or more in tuition, but they got nothing in terms of course work or instruction directly from their universities. </p>
<p>Too bad there isn't some way to provide a longer paid internship for teachers in training--a year-long school experience would give teaching interns such a boost in really being prepared to be on their own in the classroom.</p>
<p>As for fitting in the course work, my school was on the quarter system, and I never took fewer than 19 credit hours per quarter (12 was the minimum for full time). I had a double major with one discipline requiring 85 hours and the other 60, and I was very careful (and lucky) in scheduling each quarter to make sure that I never took a course that didn't meet a major or general ed requirement. I don't necessarily recommend that approach, as I believe the college experience should allow some opportunities for exploration, but I had family responsibilities already and wanted to finish as quickly as possible.</p>
<p>"Often students complete their major courses first and do their student teaching later, adding another semester or 2 to their undergrad years. It is possible to get everything in with careful planning. It might mean taking summer classes. It is easier for students who are majoring in education than for students who are majoring in something else and trying to pick up a teacher certification also."</p>
<p>She's in PA and they don't allow an education major, so she has to do a full major, the core classes, and the education, all leaving a semester for student teaching. I can't figure it out.</p>
<p>Question re above: but while you were student teaching didn't you earn credits for it? I belive that at our U. the student teaching experience is done during the senior year and is worth 12 credits. So your tuition payment is still earning you credits!</p>
<p>"Question re above: but while you were student teaching didn't you earn credits for it? I belive that at our U. the student teaching experience is done during the senior year and is worth 12 credits. So your tuition payment is still earning you credits!"</p>
<p>Yes, but that's not what I'm asking. I'm obviously not being clear. Not even to myself. She has to take 15 classes in her major, 6 in education (apart from student teaching) and about three core classes in order to graduate. I'm just trying to figure out how she can do that with the student teaching semester out of the picture. This is clearly above my head.</p>
<p>Ideally you don't buy credits, you buy the university's/professor's time/resources. Since the University isn't providing you with anything close to your tuition that semester I'd have to agree that that's pretty unfair. In WV they start the student teaching much earlier (a friend of mine did some sophomore year) and they don't do it exclusively for a semester, but I'm not sure of the specifices.</p>
<p>edit: Overloaded semesters, an extra semester or summer classes look like about the only options.</p>
<p>irishbird,
Yes, you are correct that student teachers do earn credit......still, I feel bad that the student teacher I had last fall had to pay $12,000 to her university when she (and I!) really did all of the work. She made contact and arrangements with me herself, and the university sent someone to observe her once and talk to me for a half an hour. They paid $400 for me to essentially be her personal education prof for the semester.....I don't think the amount of tuition charged to student teachers for that semester is commensurate to the value they receive from the university during that time--there can't be that much cost to the university associated with checking off forms and filing them. The student still does most of the paperwork associated with obtaining credentials from the state, and the observing/consulting adjunct prof contracted by the university put in a brief morning's work on the student teacher's behalf.</p>
<p>Zoosermom- If I am understanding you correctly what you are trying to figure out is how all of that can be done in 4 yrs. I doubt that it can. From what I have seen in Ca most credential programs are completed over a 5th year and 6th yr.
Also all the student teachers we have had over the years were in credential programs that they applied to after getting the Bachelors. The credential programs were often with a different university. For example I know two young women who completed their undergrad degreees out of state and now are enrolled in a credential program through a Cal State university.
I would guess it varies by state.
My son had several student teachers in high school. I know they were there the entire semester. What I don't know is how many periods they taught a day or if they also were taking classes in the evenings.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, </p>
<p>I'm confused. At your oldest daughters college they do offer elementary as well as secondary ed. I only looked because I knew that we've had many student teachers in our school district from that College as well as knowing students that went there to become teachers. The college of education at her college has it's own website that explains it a bit. I won't link it here but it wasn't too hard to find.</p>
<p>I think that many schools handle this a bit differently but my daughters school had three different student teaching experiences, one sophmore year, one junior year and one senior year. Her college had blocks during one quarter each of these three years that were just for ed majors. Her senior year one was more like a full time job and she just met with her supervising professor weekly and for reviews. For sophmore and junior years she still had classes but because it was blocked off they wrapped them around the student teachers hours at the schools. Somehow it works, because, just like at your daughters school, ed majors are required to double major and my daughter was able to do that, fit in a study abroad and graduate in four years. okay, she did have to take a couple of on-line classes one summer - but I think that still counts. :)</p>
<p>Kathie, my daughter definitely wants to teach secondary, so elementary isn't a consideration. She found out at the very end of the school year that she can't do it with the first choice of major because some classes are only given every two years. I've read through the website and I've counted the classes, and with the limit of 4 classes per semester, it doesn't seem to fit. I was thinking that people might take a night class during the student teaching semester or be allowed to take a fifth class in the semesters before student teaching, but what do I know? It's so frustrating because if it really can't be done, she's going to have to come home and do the CUNY thing because no way can we pay for a fifth year. She's a little bit bitter because she was told repeatedly that she could do it with her choice, but at the end of year meeting with the education advisor she was told unequivocally no, but that the major was a new one and no one had asked before, so they didn't realize there was a problem. Another lesson learned the hard way, I guess.</p>
<p>Many years ago when I was college student in PA, I had to major in my teaching field and minor in secondary education. My student teaching was during my final semester; some of my peers did their student teaching in their next-to-last semester. When depended upon whether you had completed all the required education coursework by the previous term--and to some extent on what your teaching field was.</p>
<p>Since student teaching didn't actually last the whole semester--it was 10 weeks, if I remember correctly, not 14--we had a few short form courses we could take during the final 4 weeks of the term. One was a half unit required education class in reading instruction and others were humanities distribution electives (full credit!). The humanities classes met everyday for 4 hours--like summer school class does.</p>
<p>I also took one graduate level night class in my major while I was student teaching. (My choice and something absolutely no one recommended, but I only needed 1 more class to complete my graduation requirements and finish a semester early. Given my dad had died 8 months earlier and I had 2 younger sibs also in college, finishing early seemed like a really good idea.) </p>
<p>So it is possible. I honestly can't think of any of my cohort in humanites/languages/social science who didn't graduate on time. But you did have be pretty goal directed and get into the education/student teaching track before the end of your freshman year in order to get all the classes you needed to finish on time. Student who changed majors (teaching fields) or decided to get a teaching certificate later on pretty much ended up needing an extra semester or a summer session to get it all done.</p>
<p>ZM, I took all of my credits 15 years after receiving my B.A. degree, so it was a one-year post-baccalaureate fulltime program of 36 credits in total that included all the student teaching as described. That is different, now, I realize because your D is an undergraduate! I didn't major in education in college. I came to teaching a bit later in life. I guess today that's called an M.A.T. with certification to teach. (MAT= Master of Arts in Teaching; different from M.A. in Education which is more theory/research, less practical/class management in focus). The MA has no practice teaching but the MAT does.</p>
<p>I'm an outlier in that I feel, if it can be afforded, a student should try to complete all the coursework of a BA and then get the education credentials and practice teaching in the following year. Most don't because the state will certify you PROVIDED you get your masters degree within 3 years or so. I saw so many young women and men trying to be first-year teachers while racing to graduate courses in theory. If it can be afforded, there are some advantages to coming into the school system with the M.A. all done. Of course I also had 3 kids then...so younger, single people might handle it better. Some say that the school boards will prefer to hire a B.A. rather than a completed Masters candidate, to save a few thousand annually. I'm not sure what's true any more. You'd like to think they'd pay a bit more initially to have a finished candidate. Might depend on how close-to-the-bone the school board runs in its budget. Anyway, too many digressions, sorry ZM. </p>
<p>Following the money: when a student pays the university, the university gives some money to the public school to compensate the supervising mentor teacher. In essence, student teachers are paying the university their course tuition. In return the student receives: university administrative services, professorial oversight, a program of observations and evaluations by the mentor teacher at the school. At year's end, more fees are paid out-of-pocket to the state board of education to process the certification to teach. </p>
<p>That's why students should feel empowered to hold their mentor teacher accountable and not let him walk out of the classroom (as mine did, totally illegal) because he perceives your handling things well. He should be present in the room with you at all times you teach, observing and later critiquing you. THAT's why you pay the big bucks that term, and that's also why teachers enjoy being mentors. It's satisfying in its own right, as a professional, but there is a stipend for doing it.
You're paying them that stipend, so be sure to get real feedback, even if it's sometimes uncomfortable to hear!</p>
<p>"I'm not sure what's true any more. You'd like to think they'd pay a bit more initially to have a finished candidate. Might depend on how close-to-the-bone the school board runs in its budget. Anyway, too many digressions, sorry ZM. "</p>
<p>THis is why I posted. I want the information and opinions. I'm learning from them. Theoretically, she would have her BA in History (that's Plan B) and be certified to teach upon graduation. The next step would be the masters elsewhere, but we always knew that. If anyone ever says that first generation college students aren't at a disadvantage if they aren't poor, I will slap them.</p>
<p>I can tell you what the girl next door has to do. She will be a college junior in the fall and is going for a BA in History and credentials so she can teach high school. This requires her undergrad to be 5 years, she has looked at every possible option and there was none for her. IF she can afford it she will go straight to Masters, Phd route so she can teach college (her preference). Otherwise she will work on the Masters while teaching high school and save money for the Phd requirement.</p>
<p>zoosermom- my D will be majoring in English and also going for the Secondary Ed certification. I have looked over all the requirements to see how she could complete them in 7 semesters, leaving the 8th for student teaching. The only way is to start early and target as many Gen Ed required classes to double count. At her orientation I have mandated my D determine the school policy on counting courses to meet 2 requirements. I hope 3 classes can count towards both a Gen Ed and either an English or Education requirement. If she can not double count it can only be done by taking at least one course every summer or going an extra semester</p>
<p>Zooser...student teaching is one of the required courses for an education major. When one majors in education, part of how they meet their "course requirements" is by doing a term of student teaching. Concurrent with the student teaching itself, some schools have the students take a class that actually deals with student teaching also. When a student is planning to major in education, that student will have mapped out their courses with their advisor. All of their courses will be met. Some of the courses are prerequisites to the student teaching and some can be taken afterward. </p>
<p>In our state, students must major in a discipline and also take education courses. It is doable in four years with good planning.</p>
<p>The most important thing is to talk to an advisor as early in the process as possible so that all courses will be taken in the proper sequence and at the right time.</p>
<p>Zooser, so you're saying that your daughters original advisor told her that it would all work out but the one at the end of the year told her it would not. That's terrible! Like I mentioned before, my daughter needed to take a couple of classes on-line to replace duplicate ones she inadvertantly took (long story) but it wasn't terribly hard and she could do them over the summer while working.</p>
<p>It is extremely hard to be an ed major if you don't start off in that direction because there is no wiggle room, and even worse when you have to double major. However, unless your daughter is planning to teach in PA, there's no reason to get the ed degree and get certified here is there? I mean couldn't she just get her degree in her specialty and then finish the certification in NY? Or is that too complicated? I do feel for you. My daughter with the degree and certification in IL and PA is now talking about teaching in .....NY!</p>