Students'/Alums' Take on Swarthmore

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
41

<p>
[quote]
I'm confused about those alum stats, since - as a student who works for the alumni office - the numbers we get are around 59% alumni donation rate from last year. This year it'll be closer to 61%, we hope. Swat's pretty well known for that. Maybe they're counting a different fiscal year? Hmm.

[/quote]

Hey, how can I get Swarthmore to stop sending me junk mail asking me for money? There are other charitable causes that have a higher priority for me than giving money to a college with an endowment in excess of a billion dollars, and the needless waste of time and resources spent sending me these unending requests for money must stop.</p>

42

<p>It is interesting to read different points of view about elite schools. Swarthmore is particularly interesting because of its small size, school culture & academic reputation.For an interesting read on Swarthmore from a conservative viewpoint try "Choosing The Right College" an ISI guide 2008-09. This is the sixth edition. For a more explosive read regarding Swarthmore, try to get a copy of the fifth edition which has a 2005 copyright. I have read, in more than one publication, of a cultural division between Swarthmore vs. (for lack of a better term) Haverford & Bryn Mawr in the sense that the latter two do not associate much with the former even though all share cross-registration privileges. Is this accurate? To state the obvious, Swarthmore is not the school for everyone; but it is a beautiful, charming campus and an academic powerhouse of a school. It is small and liberal. Some claim that it may be a bit intolerant of non-liberal perspectives. Once enrolled at a small, intensely academic and very liberal school, a student receiving a substantial amount of financial aid might feel trapped if growth occurs in a, for example, moderate to conservative direction. Same thing occurs at West Point, BYU, Vassar, Grove City College, etc. This can be especially upsetting to young adults who have never lived away from home prior to enrolling in college.</p>

43

<p>One point that I hoped to make in the above post, but I ran out of time, is that students have to be particularly careful when considering small colleges with unusually strong cultures, typically ultra conservative or ultra liberal, because matriculation is tantamount to "marrying" into a family with a very defined & strong personality; if you later decide that you don't like it, don't fit or want out, it can be quite unpleasant. Consider a student at Bob Jones University who decides to question and then challenge and then rebel against the conservative religious dogma--it would not be a pretty picture. The same can happen at small colleges on the other end of the spectrum as well.</p>

44

<p>
[quote]
I have read, in more than one publication, of a cultural division between Swarthmore vs. (for lack of a better term) Haverford & Bryn Mawr in the sense that the latter two do not associate much with the former even though all share cross-registration privileges. Is this accurate?

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</p>

<p>Yes.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Some claim that it may be a bit intolerant of non-liberal perspectives.

[/quote]

I don't know if intolerant is the right word, but I think non-liberals at Swarthmore will feel alienated from mainstream campus culture and political opinion.</p>

45

<p>I think that there is a right to life organization at Swarthmore now, and some other organizations that are considered conservative. Of course, there would be more of these at other schools. Some students may find it to be more of a challenge to be at a school where they are NOT the dominant force. I think that the students at Swarthmore are not generally intolerant of various viewpoints, they probably more would ignore the existence, feeling strongly about their own views.</p>

<p>When PBS televised a student political debate from Swarthmore, they did manage to find Dems, Republicans and Independents.</p>

<p>I think in terms of cross enrollment at Haverford or Bryn Mawr, part of it is distance, but the other schools have complementary course offerings such as some other languages and I do think that there is good transportation between the schools.</p>

46

<p>
[quote]
Here are the "Top 10" USN&WR LACs (for 2008), ranked by alumni giving rate:</p>

<p>64 % Carleton
61 % Amherst
58 % Williams
57 % Middlebury
55 % Bowdoin
54 % Davidson
51 % Swarthmore
50 % Wellesley
47 % Pomona
47 % Haverford

[/quote]
The differences shown above are not huge, and I'm not convinced that they are particularly accurate or meaningful. But if it's true that Swarthmore's giving rate is slightly lower than those of some other top LACs, then I would speculate that the reason might have something to do with athletics. This may sound crazy, but there is a theory that athletic success builds school spirit and is a point of alumni pride.</p>

<p>For comparison, Williams, Amherst, and Middlebury are usually among the Top 10 Division III athletic programs (as per the NACDA rankings); Bowdoin usually makes the Top 20; and Davidson actually competes at the NCAA Division I level. The few universities with comparable giving rates are Princeton, Dartmouth, Duke, and Notre Dame, all of which are known for high levels of athletic interest and/or participation. I admit that Carleton seems like an exception. </p>

<p>Swarthmore, on the other hand, is not particularly noted for strong athletics; it doesn't even have a football team (neither does Haverford, or of course Wellesley). It wouldn't surprise me if the greater emphasis on athletics at the other schools listed above gives them a little extra edge in terms of alumni support. </p>

<p>So Swarthmore may not compete well in this respect. But realistically, I don't think anyone goes to Swarthmore with the expectation that it's a "jock school".</p>

47

<p>


</p>

<p>Wait, weren't you the person who first introduced alumni giving rate as a metric for student satisfaction? Yes, you were:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>Now you're arguing with yourself? That's very Swarthmore, if nothing else.</p>

<p>Anyway, if you don't think a difference of, say, 10%, such as between Amherst and Swarthmore is significant or meaningful, what is? Swarthmore's alumni population is just under 20,000 and, given the size of Amherst's student enrollment, its is probably around 24,000. That means around 10,200 Swarthmore alumni are giving to Swarthmore while 14,640 Amherst alumni are giving to Amherst. If Amherst had Swarthmore's alumni population, then it would have 12,200 alumni giving. That's quite a gap, an increase of 19.6%.</p>

<p>I realize there's more speculation than hard fact being thrown around here, but your casual dismissal of these numbers or attribution of them to "school spirit" (The Swarthmoreans I know wouldn't have more school spirit if they had more sports teams to not watch, not play on, and not care about) is mysterious to me.</p>

48

<p>The metrics used by US News are meaningful, but not to a hair-splitting extent. Yes, I believe that alumni giving rate does have some relationship to alumni satisfaction -- but no, I'm not too excited about the difference between a school that is ranked #2 (Amherst) vs. a school that is "only" ranked #9 (Swarthmore). Given that there are 248 National LACs, both schools rank above the 95th percentile overall, and so I regard both schools as excellent as far as this particular metric goes.</p>

<p>Over on the National University side, the "alumni giving" rate gap is even larger (14 points) between #2 Duke and #9 Stanford. Is this really a difference that you would be concerned about if you happened to be choosing between these two (fine) schools ? </p>

<p>
[quote]
The Swarthmoreans I know wouldn't have more school spirit if they had more sports teams to not watch, not play on, and not care about

[/quote]
Yes, that's the point. The schools with the highest alumni giving rates tend to be those with lots of interest/participation in sports and spirited, pep-rally attitudes towards their alma maters. </p>

<p>And I simply don't think Swarthmore attracts that kind of personality (in fact, you seem to be a case in point). This may not help the school in terms of fund-raising (think of the annual fundraising campaign as a kind of pep rally), but may make it a more interesting place in other ways.</p>

49

<p>
[quote]
The metrics used by US News are meaningful, but not to a hair-splitting extent. Yes, I believe that alumni giving rate does have some relationship to alumni satisfaction -- but no, I'm not too excited about the difference between a school that is ranked #2 (Amherst) vs. a school that is "only" ranked #9 (Swarthmore). Given that there are 248 National LACs, both schools rank above the 95th percentile overall, and I see both as excellent in this regard.

[/quote]

There are a lot of reasons to compare the school to its peer group when using this metric to assess student satisfaction. The main reason, in this case, has to do with the affluence of the typical graduate. Swarthmore graduates are probably more affluent than graduates from lower tier schools, for myriad reasons. This translates to an ability (although maybe not willingness) to contribute to the school that is not present at lower tier schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Over on the National University side, the "alumni giving" rate gap is even larger (14 points) between #2 Duke and #9 Stanford. Is this really a difference that you would be concerned about if you happened to be choosing between these two schools -- both of which are obviously excellent?

[/quote]

Maybe it is something a potential matriculant should consider. Duke and Stanford both have a lot of "school spirit" and top-flight athletic programs. Why is Duke's alumni giving rate so much higher? I think there could be an enlightening answer to that question, much as there is to the question of why Amherst or Carleton has substantially higher rate of alumni giving than Swarthmore.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Yes, that's the point. The schools with the highest alumni giving rates tend to be those with lots of interest/participation in sports and spirited, pep-rally attitudes towards their alma maters.</p>

<p>And I simply don't think Swarthmore attracts that kind of personality (in fact, you seem to be a case in point). This may not help the school in terms of fund-raising (think of the annual fundraising campaign as a kind of pep rally), but may make it a more interesting place in other ways.

[/quote]

This could contribute to Swarthmore's reduced rate of alumni giving. When I was 16, one of the reasons I decided I wanted to go to Swarthmore was that, at the time, I did eschew such things as branding, elitist labels, and school spirit, as I was more interested in the academic core of an institution and what it could teach me, and Swarthmore seemed to be less concerned with those things I disliked than other elite schools such as the Ivies or even many of the other top LACs. What can I say... I was 16, and I thought this was somehow important. Anyhow, if other people like me chose Swarthmore with similar criteria in mind, then perhaps they, too, would be like me in feeling no desire to contribute to the school once we left. But, I don't think this effect is strong enough to account for the full difference we see between the top schools and Swarthmore in alumni giving, and that a higher level of student dissatisfaction at Swarthmore as compared to the others is at work, because a Swarthmore student and an Amherst student or Carleton student aren't that different. The degree of such may not be as much as the figures cited in the first post of this thread suggest, but there is likely a non-negligible gap.</p>

50

<p>I tried to answer this question a while back: the primary cause of small differences in alumni giving can be attributed to the amount of time, money, and effort invested in alumni fundraising. Some colleges invest enormous resources into calling every living alumni over and over and over until a donation is received on the spot over the phone, even if it's five bucks just to bump the participation rate for USNEWS rankings.</p>

<p>Swarthmore is more laid back in its fundraising. Although I must admit, they are getting pretty slick....assigning my kid's friends (whom I know) to call here for the Parents Fund. How do you say no to that?</p>

51

<p>AE:</p>

<p>Again. Since you seem to pushing the notion of a "higher level of student dissatisfaction at Swarthmore", why don't you call Institutional Research and see where Swat falls on that measurement relative to the entire universe of COFHE schools? You keep making an argument for which you have no valid basis.</p>

52

<p>
[quote]
I tried to answer this question a while back: the primary cause of small differences in alumni giving can be attributed to the amount of time, money, and effort invested in alumni fundraising.

[/quote]

The difference between 51% and 64% is not small.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Swarthmore is more laid back in its fundraising.

[/quote]

No, they aren't. They hassle me incessantly with paper mail and they won't stop. I don't equate a constant influx of letters with "laid back," and the only reason they don't call me, I'm sure, is that they don't have my phone number. They still call my parents, though.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Again. Since you seem to pushing the notion of a "higher level of student dissatisfaction at Swarthmore", why don't you call Institutional Research and see where Swat falls on that measurement relative to the entire universe of COFHE schools?

[/quote]

For one, the "entire universe" of COFHE schools doesn't even include all of the schools in my opening post. I would like to compare Swarthmore to those schools, because those are its closest peers. Secondly, I'd rather get my data from a more neutral source than Swarthmore's office of Institutional Research, and I'd rather get something that's free, not for pay or for members only. Technically, I don't even know if Institutional Research should be giving that data out.</p>

53

<p>I have heard that more students at Swarthmore go into public interest fields or nonprofits and may just not have the money for giving. And their techniques for rasing money are very mild. My good friend who graduated from a large Ivy is hounded constantly for money, and basically they don't give up until he does give it up for them.</p>

<p>Some large football schools also prioritize football tickets for contributors. They also have deals for individual football tickets if you contribute. And there are indirect donations given to the school via sports tickets. Football is very important for some people. I am personally very happy that Swarthmore has no football, for several reasons.</p>

<p>If Swarthmore wants to increase their alumni contributions then they will have to change their approach. Any suggestions?</p>

<p>Also, the fact that Swat's endowment per student is so large may make alums think that the college doesn't need the money.</p>

54

<p>Link to just completed COFHE Parents Survey at Swarthmore (58% of Swat Parents participated).</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/parents_fall07_2w.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/parents_fall07_2w.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
The “Parents Survey” was administered to parents of Swarthmore students in spring 2007. Used by a consortium of highly selective peer institutions, it is a useful tool in helping us to understand better the opinions, experiences, and needs of our families. Parents had the option of responding either via a paper survey or on-line using a Web-based format. Some responded on the Web, but most chose to complete and return the paper survey. The overall response rate to the survey was 58
percent, a rate that compares very favorably with current
response rates seen nationally to similar surveys.</p>

<p>Respondents indicated a high level of overall satisfaction
with the College, as evidenced by three general items on the survey. </p>

<p>One item, using a 5-point scale, asked about how satisfied
parents were with their child’s education. Ninety-four percent responded that they were “generally” or “very satisfied.”</p>

<p>Another item (also using a 5-point scale) asked whether they would recommend Swarthmore to a high school senior similar to their child. Ninety-one percent said that they “probably” or “definitely would.” </p>

<p>A third item asked parents to evaluate their child’s overall academic experience. On this 4-point scale, 96 percent responded with “good” or “excellent.”

[/quote]
</p>

55

<p>
[quote]
And their techniques for rasing money are very mild.

[/quote]

I wonder if there is any data available comparing the recruitment efforts and expenditures of the schools listed in the OP. If so, we could see if Amherst, for instance, really does spend 10% more time and money to get 10% more of its alumni to give than Swarthmore does.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Also, the fact that Swat's endowment per student is so large may make alums think that the college doesn't need the money.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Amherst's endowment per student is 97.6% that of Swarthmore's. Swarthmore's alumni giving rate is 83.6% that of Amherst's.</p>

56

<p>ID, I'm going to weigh in on the "some colleges invest enormous resources into calling every living alumni over and over and over until a donation is received on the spot over the phone, even if it's five bucks just to bump the participation rate for USNEWS rankings".</p>

<p>It's not Williams investing resources here - it's some very enthusiastic alumni in your class that are doing this. Your class is particularly well known for this - and it's no accident that year after year your class has one of the highest % of alumni giving among all Wms alumni. (If it drives you nuts you could ask them to stop calling so often, they'll probably listen)</p>

57

<p>It doesn't really drive me nuts. Hey, it works. Usually. It's kind of running joke, actually. "It's about time for XXXXX to start calling!" </p>

<p>They figured out how to game the percentages with my wife and I years ago. Any gift, from either of us, is automatically split between the two class years, thus increasing everyone's percentages across the board. Higher for the school. Higher for the two classes in competition. And, so forth.</p>

<p>I think this might have been first year they struck out with both of us. My wife thinks any school that will tear down a library built since she was there just because it's ugly doesn't need the money. For me, Mary Jane Hitler was the last straw.</p>

58

<p>The current alumni giving rate at Swarthmore (fiscal year 2006-07) is 59.2%</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/Gifts.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/ir/Gifts.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The 51% figure USNEWS reports is five or six years old. I have no idea where they got that number. It's not reported on the Common Data Set.</p>

<p>One other point, whenever you see Duke at the top of a category, keep in mind that most USNEWS categories can be are and are gamed by certain schools. The LACs I've looked at, including Swarthmore/Williams/Amherst, appear to be scrupulously honest in their reporting. But, all a university has to do to boost their alumni giving percentages is "lose" the addresses of alumni who refuse to give. Just like they "lose" the SAT scores of basketball recruits. Not calling out Duke or anything, but I always take Duke's "stats" with a big grain of salt.</p>

59

<p>
[quote]
Hey, how can I get Swarthmore to stop sending me junk mail asking me for money? There are other charitable causes that have a higher priority for me than giving money to a college with an endowment in excess of a billion dollars, and the needless waste of time and resources spent sending me these unending requests for money must stop.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Just so you know, you can contact the alumni fund at any time to ask them to stop sending you things. They really are very chill about that - if they DO contact you and you want them to quit contacting you, they will gladly remove you from their list, you just have to let them know instead of voicing it here. They don't like to contact people who obviously don't want to be contacted. It's not such a waste of time or energy though, since students are given paid positions to do a lot of things with the alumni fund, and the work-study opportunities like those are highly important to me and others.</p>

<p>And yes, as ID has provided a link for, our alumni giving rate is definitely much higher than 51% - this year it'll be closer to 61%. Maybe all the other schools rates have also increased, but Swat's known for having very high rates of alums donating. :]</p>

60

<p>forgetmenots:</p>

<p>What a delicious irony. By dropping A.E. from the mailing list, Swarthmore would increase its alumni giving rate and improve its alumni satisfaction ranking in the USNEWS ratings.</p>

<p>Now, that's a win/win.</p>