Students'/Alums' Take on Swarthmore

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
141

<p>dadx3,</p>

<p>Thank you for your constructive responses. Even though my husband and I would not support an application to Swarthmore again (cannot speak for our d), we do appreciate some of the following pluses (ranking does not indicate order of preference):</p>

<ol>
<li> Beautiful campus.</li>
<li> Easy access to an airport.</li>
<li> Small class sizes.</li>
<li> Very intelligent student population.</li>
<li> Students are able to participate or attain leadership roles in a wide variety of campus groups/organizations.</li>
<li> Diverse student population.</li>
</ol>

<p>onemoreparent,</p>

<p>In answer to your question about "not meeting many men on campus", our d (I'm sure like many Swatties) focused on academics and college prep in high school and looked forward to college where she hoped to have more in common with the other students. One part of this has not been disappointing - she does have much more in common with Swarthmore students - she has good friends (male and female). Unfortunately, in addition to dadx3's explanation of "serial monogamy and casual hookups" which we agree seems to be "the common scene at many or perhaps most colleges these days", the percentages of women to men do not reflect gender preferences. "How can you research this?" I would recommend talking with current students. Our d had hoped for a larger pool of heterosexual men, but this has not been a major issue - after all, d did not choose to go to college to find a man - she is simply postponing her dating life (again) until after Swat.</p>

<p>To all who responded about the pass-fail semester: It either works for your student or it doesn't. I would not presume to tell other families what will work for them and their students. Our d did not "bomb the first semester"; she just did not take it as seriously as the graded semesters - not Swarthmore's issue, our d's issue. I would be curious to know how "real" that first semester feels to most Swatties. Our d felt that she didn't have enough information from the first semester to make the transfer decision. </p>

<p>To all who responded about Parents' Weekend: Parents' Weekend is just another learning opportunity for parents. If a student is considering a transfer and looking to parents for advice, it would be nice to have additional exposure to the college and campus before the transfer deadlines. During Parents' Weekend, we became aware of some of the issues listed in my earlier post - no "real" student center, no card access to dorms, limited performance venues (we were finally able to sit down at a musical performance after someone pulled in additional chairs, we waited in line over an hour to get seats to the theatre production). Yes, everything was blooming, and the campus looked beautiful on the outside.</p>

<p>Regarding the change in venue for the Halloween Party: Yes, the party was moved to Tarbles and, yes, it was a better location than Mary Lyons. Information not included - there were possible fire code issues as too many students attempted to move up and down the stairs at Tarbles. My point is that Swarthmore needs to make "improving its venues" a priority.</p>

<p>Regarding student monitoring of inebriated students: This is simply a safety issue and does not seem to be a high priority for the college. It's not that it's "too much bother for a friend to stay with an inebriated student". It's about friends having to make the alcohol poisoning call while watching students become incontinent or choke on their own vomit. I don't know how Swarthmore's policy compares with other schools - just be aware that this is Swarthmore's policy.</p>

<p>To those parents who are happy with the entire Swarthmore experience, good for you and your students! Obviously, Swarthmore has been an excellent fit for your student, and that's wonderful! I am simply sharing our family's experience because it is different - but no less valid. And, at this price point, it helps to know what you are buying.</p>

142

<p>
[quote]
Regarding the change in venue for the Halloween Party: Yes, the party was moved to Tarbles and, yes, it was a better location than Mary Lyons. Information not included - there were possible fire code issues as too many students attempted to move up and down the stairs at Tarbles. My point is that Swarthmore needs to make "improving its venues" a priority.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I do not know of a liberal arts college that has a party venue large enough for the entire campus. I know that Williams does not. Their "First Friday" all-campus parties are fire marshall limited with long lines.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Regarding student monitoring of inebriated students: This is simply a safety issue and does not seem to be a high priority for the college. It's not that it's "too much bother for a friend to stay with an inebriated student". It's about friends having to make the alcohol poisoning call while watching students become incontinent or choke on their own vomit. I don't know how Swarthmore's policy compares with other schools - just be aware that this is Swarthmore's policy.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>What in the world are you talking about? Worth Health Center has trained staff on site 24/7 and the staff makes the decision when a student needs to be transported to the hospital for alcohol poisoning. They average zero to three transports in a typical year.</p>

<p>I've already told you the policy at many top LACs. Close the health center nights and weekends because they don't want to be involved in alcohol related issues period. Some of these schools average dozens and dozens of alcohol poisoning hospitalizations per year. Williams has had at least two students near death this year (BAC above .40) and had one night when they had to call in ambulances from surrounding towns to help handle the number of transports as the two ambulances serving Williamstown were making constant shuttles for alcohol poisoning.</p>

143

<p>I have been lurking for awhile on this board but finally wanted to provide my perspective as well.</p>

<p>First of all a hearty thank-you to involved mom for providing a thoughtful perspective on her daughter's experience at Swat. It is very useful to read about the first and second-hand perspectives that don't make it onto the marketing material that colleges deluge kids with.</p>

<p>Second of all-thank you A. E. for starting this post. </p>

<p>Third of all-interested dad-chill out ... Although I'm sure you have a tremendous fund of knowledge when it comes to Swat, your comments are occasionally strident and judgemental. Everyone is entitiled to their perspective and they are just as valid as yours even though we may not have posted in excess of 6,000 postings.</p>

<p>Onto the main points: I'm a praciticing physician with a child at Swat. I have been very dissapointed in the college's attitude towards students health and safety while at Swat. I specifically allude to an incident a couple of years ago where a table was thrown by an inebriated student at Tarbles causing a student to loose consciousness while sustaining a scalp laceration. The student was escorted by the "party assistants" to student health where everything was judged to be fine by nursing staff. </p>

<p>I beg to differ on the management of this situation which was reported in the Phoenix. At the major trauma center where I practice the patient would have been transported by ambulance with a cervical collar in place to a facility where they would have undergone a CT scan of the head. Not to have done this exposes our children to a dangerous situation and the college to medico-legal liability. I so communicated my concerns at the time of this event to the then dean of students and received a very pleasant brush off.</p>

<p>I am also very concerned when I read about the college's policy of requiring students to stay with their inebriated acquaintances/friends while they sober up. If a student is incontinent and vomiting with a risk for aspiration pneumonia, the student clearly needs to be in a medically supervised environment. Hasn't the college been following the widely reported tragedies that have occurred at colleges and univeristies around the country? Will it take an alcohol-related tragedy to motivate the college to provide a safe environment for the occasional stupid age-related activities kids get involved in? I have no problems with the college calling for help from the local hospital and law enforcement-while it may be more expesive and embarassing at least your chances of surviving the night will have improved significanty!</p>

<p>I was also appalled at the college's refusal to introduce a electronic pass-card system for entry into college buildings, most importantly into the dorms. At every other cohort college there is a pass-card system. The Swat board of governor's and administrationa have refused to spend the approximate 1 million dollars it would take to fully transition the campus to pass cards. Instead when you have a chance to visit the campus, please note the water bottles and crushed soda cans placed by our naive and trusting children to prop the doors open in order to facilitate entry into the dorms by all interested parties. This directly contributed to the recently reported dorm break-ins and confrontations in the showers (also reported in the Phoenix). What kind of tragedy will it take to wake the college up to the reality of living in this century?!</p>

<p>On an academic note, I strongly disagree with the college's required freshman semester of no grades. Frankly I think it not only serves as a semester-long "orientation/party" for most of these hard-working kids, it also puts kids on an equal playing field. I don't think very many 18 and 19 year olds are going to keep working as hard in their freshmen semester as they did in high school when they know the grades don't appear on their transcripts. If you are on a pre-med path, that could (and perhaps should) be the end of aspirations for medical school. For medical school every grade counts, particularly the science grades. My child wasn't interested in medicine but if your child is be forewarned.</p>

<p>Caveat emptor.</p>

144

<p>I think that Family Weekend is held in the Spring for a couple of reasons;</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Many school have football games that attract alums and parents and Swarthmore obviously doesn't have this.</p></li>
<li><p>It is a beautiful time of year, and the freshman have settled in.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I agree that Family Weekend would not generally be that useful in determining transferring. It would seem that during Winter break would be a good time to see how the student is doing.</p>

<p>Per transferring: The main choice would be whether to transfer to a flagship state university. This is a good option for students who want more options such as defined programs, instead of a general liberal arts education. </p>

<p>I am sure there is some shifting among LACs, but I don't think that there is that much significant differece, unless you want an all-girl's college, or a school with a winning basketball team, like Davidson. Now that would be a good reason to transfer!</p>

145

<p>My own child did not view the first semester at Swarthmore as a "party semester" and worked as hard as ever. I think it helps some students to adjust. I doubt that it influences the acceptance rate to medical school, which is very high for swarthmore gradutes.</p>

<p>I do agree that inebriated students need a high level of medical care, with regular alcohol levels and montoring by trained personnel in a hospital setting. A student who has fallen or had a table fallen on him or her needs a hard cervical collar and x-rays and monitoring. Ambulances need to be called when there are accidents and injuries, falls, etc.</p>

<p>Yes, insurance does pay for that, and students have to learn that high alcohol levels are very dangerous and warrant a real ER visit, with parents notified, as they will get the bills anyhow.</p>

146

<p>One last thought tonight: The level of reflection and conversation on this thread recently reflects to me one of the aspects of what is good about Swarthmore, considering the level of thoughtfulness being given to various considerations about the school.</p>

<p>I think it is very easy to have the kind of strong relationship and feeling about Swarthmore being reflected here. It is an intense, intellectual place. </p>

<p>Get over it!</p>

147

<p>I agree that Swat is an intense environment. I frankly don't think it is necessarily any more intense or intellectual than many other high quality colleges and universities. I only wish that the Swat's administration would provide the well-intentioned students and their families with the kind of support that their cohort institutions are willing to provide. I look forward to the day when I will have signed my last check for the exorbitant cost of Swat. Swat is not a good buy. I won't be supporting the college with future children or funds. </p>

<p>"Fair winds and following seas".</p>

148

<p>should we make another thread of parent's take on swat or change the name on this one because it has been completely hijacked.</p>

149

<p>
[quote]
should we make another thread of parent's take on swat or change the name on this one because it has been completely hijacked.

[/quote]

No, I think we just have to accept that College Confidential is overrun with parents.</p>

150

<p>I don't post on here often, because I am not interested in the futile exercise of engaging with parents who don't fully acknowledge experiences other than their own. However, I know that not many students come on here for the exact same reason. In fact, I know of a couple of students that have come on from time to time--they started to talk about their own experiences with Worth and Psych Services. After a couple of posts, one of them found out that they had been banned, because a certain parent poster had complained to the admins that the student poster was using a pseudonym. In fact, the student had started under a new user name because their original one was recognizable from their high school days of posting. So much for allowing for disparate viewpoints--that's at least 2 students who won't be back on CC.</p>

151

<p>"No, I think we just have to accept that College Confidential is overrun with parents."</p>

<p>I think for the price that the PARENTS pay, we feel invested in it. Give me a state university for $10,000 a year, and maybe my feelings wouldn't be so strong. Everyday that I go to work, it's to pay the HUGE CHUNK of my salary to Swarthmore!</p>

<p>By the way, as to the chance of heterosexual or homosexual relationships at Swat vs larger universities, mentioned by a parent above:</p>

<p>Although Swarthmore has been called the "Quaker matchbox," let's face it that by sheer numbers there are more chances at a larger college or university to meet more people.</p>

152

<p>As with everything in life, no college is perfect and in judging colleges, sometimes their true purpose is forgotten. </p>

<p>Liberal arts colleges such as Swarthmore are not meant to train anyone to be ready to enter the work force upon graduation. There are other schools that do that. Liberal arts colleges are vehicles for the enrichment of the mind with a mission to teach those engaged in the pursuit of knowledge to question. Thus the true worth of any highly selective college is in its student body, for it is from peers that students will learn the most, and its faculty, for they are the ones entrusted in guiding the students in their quest. </p>

<p>Thus far, I have not read very much to dissuade me from my understanding that Swarthmore would provide my D with the tools to continue to grow into a decent, caring human being. Yes, it is expensive, but so are all colleges and universities that are not subsidized by a state's coffers. After funding a son’s liberal arts education at Brown followed by a Columbia MFA, I am ready to start again with my daughter next year. We are not independently wealthy, but we work hard to provide our children with the tools to become great human beings.</p>

<p>My daughter has been admitted to Swarthmore and will have some tough choices to make by May 1. Should she choose Swarthmore, I will gladly continue to work hard and will gratefully write the checks for tuition so that she can have the opportunity to experience a once in a lifetime opportunity of living and learning among some of the finest, most dedicated students in this country, if not the world. </p>

<p>A big thanks to everyone who has shared their feelings and experiences.</p>

<p>.</p>

153

<p>Dramatica:</p>

<p>Believe what you will about Swat. </p>

<p>I respectfully disagree with your statement concerning "once in a lifetime opportunity of living and learning among some of the finest, most dedicated students in this country, if not the world". If you say something frequently enough you can start believing it. Swat does not offer a unique experience amongst the many other highly regarded private and public instiutions we all probably have considered/are considering. I've frankly found the "intense and intellectual" references to Swat tiresome and without substance. I went to a competing LAC and would in no way tout it as a unique experience. This experience can be found at many instiutions by open-minded young people. After the LAC experience stand by for the "trade school" experience of a professional school! I realize professional schools are disparaged at environments such as Swat and my alma mater as having "sold out" to conventional job descriptions. I guess having "sold out" I have the pleasure of paying full retail price for a place like Swat. If I had to do it again, I would not have supported my child's ambition to attend a "dream school". Reality would have set in much earlier by simply saying the flagship public university is more than good enough ... en garde.</p>

154

<p>Welcome starch and dramatica,
As the parent of an '07 Swat grad I can only give you one family's perspective. :) My views are totally shaped by what our S has told me, as I am not an alum. The pass/fail semester did not inspire our S to investigate "party time." He worked hard, got his "shadow grades," and actually had to figure them into his GPA for his applications to grad school. Swat does have a reputation as an intellectually intense environment, more so than virtually any other school in the country. My S says "absolutely" to this based on conversations with high school classmates who went to the finest colleges and universities in the country.<br>
When my H was concerned about S choosing to go to Swarthmore rather than HYP, the head of college counseling at my S's high school told him that S would not get a finer undergraduate education anywhere else in the country.
S also participated in the Honors Program at Swat. The unique character of this program was a large factor in his selection of Swarthmore. The two years of Honors Seminars he participated in gave him the rigor he needed so that he now says that the Ph.D. program he attends (a top 5 program) is no more difficult than Swat. He also says that the discussions in the Honors Seminars at Swat were better than the discussions within his Ph.D. program so far. Why? Because the Swat Honors Seminars are smaller and the people were smarter! (I didn't know this until today-he's home on break and I just asked him.)</p>

<p>He does agree with the comment that the buildings should be retrofitted for pass key entry and that, from what he knows, $$ has been the sticking point.</p>

155

<p>momof3sons: hear! hear!.</p>

156

<p>
[quote]
I beg to differ on the management of this situation which was reported in the Phoenix. At the major trauma center where I practice the patient would have been transported by ambulance with a cervical collar in place to a facility where they would have undergone a CT scan of the head. Not to have done this exposes our children to a dangerous situation and the college to medico-legal liability. I so communicated my concerns at the time of this event to the then dean of students and received a very pleasant brush off.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The student in question was transported to the hospital for evaluation and received follow-up support from the college for an extended period of time. </p>

<p>The Dean gave you the brush-off because it is improper and illegal in PA for the Dean to discuss a student's medical case with you.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I am also very concerned when I read about the college's policy of requiring students to stay with their inebriated acquaintances/friends while they sober up. If a student is incontinent and vomiting with a risk for aspiration pneumonia, the student clearly needs to be in a medically supervised environment. Hasn't the college been following the widely reported tragedies that have occurred at colleges and univeristies around the country? Will it take an alcohol-related tragedy to motivate the college to provide a safe environment for the occasional stupid age-related activities kids get involved in? I have no problems with the college calling for help from the local hospital and law enforcement-while it may be more expesive and embarassing at least your chances of surviving the night will have improved significanty!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The policy regarding alcohol transports from Worth has been detailed several times in the Phoenix. If a student is awake and alert and walking (even if unsteadily) under their own power (a BAC below .20 on most charts), they will keep the student at Worth as long as the student is not disruptive and belligerent (this is where having a friend stay as a "calming" influence may be in the student's best interest). If the students shows any signs of higher BAC levels (unable to walk under their own power, unresponsive, shallow breathing, etc.), an ambulance is called for a hospital transport. If a student is belligerant and out-of-control at Worth, the student will probably end up either in hospital or in jail regardless of BAC levels. </p>

<p>Most of the few instances of hospital transports from Swarthmore over the last four years have gone directly to the hospital from the scene (initiated by students and/or security), bypassing Worth entirely. That's logical. If a student can walk or stagger to Worth, they probably don't have high enough BAC levels to warrant emergency hospitalization. Observation would be the appropriate course of action. It would be nuts to transport every drunk college student with a BAC between .10 and .20 to the emergency room.</p>

157

<p>Many students who have died from alcohol intoxication worldwide have been able to walk or stagger (or fall off balconies and die.) Several have fallen asleep and had their alcohol levels then rise and die. Or they lie down on the floor and die.</p>

<p>Alcohol intoxicaction is a very serious problem on campus and elsewhere. To treat it by having friends watch friends trivializes it. It is a medical problem that warrants transport to a hospital, blood alcohol levels and monitoring. </p>

<p>It also warrants mandatory counseling for (potential) alcoholism, a problem on campuses that is ignored by viewing being drunk as normal.</p>

<p>Going to a hospital takes it to another medical level that can serve also as a wake-up call for this type of dangerous behavior.</p>

<p>interesteddad, this may not be what you would want for your daughter, but it is good medical care.</p>

<p>I seem to remember that the student hit by the table may have been moved first, prior to the ambulance arriving. There was also a student who fell out of a window who was moved by security, who assumed he was drunk when he was not. That student was mistreated, as I remember, and had delays in treatment by security trivializing the episode.</p>

<p>Serious injuries such as passing out or tables falling on you or falling out of windows require immobilization and 911, not moving the students and then seeing what happens.</p>

158

<p>Again, would somebody please provide any substantiation for this alleged Swarthmore policy of providing no medical assistance in cases of alcohol poisoning. It was a BS claim to start with.</p>

<p>The whole point of keeping a student for observation at Worth Health Center is to be able to call in an ambulance should the condition deteriorate.</p>

<p>As for mandatory alcohol counseling, so you even know Swathmore's policy? Any hospital transport or alchohol citation triggers a mandatory sequence of evaluation and counseling by psych services. You are complaining about Swarthmore's policy without even knowing what it is.</p>

159

<p>For one student's perspective on Swat's response to alcohol related illness, my S tells me (just now) that when he arrived at Swat he was under the impression that the school would be very "loose" about the issue. In his opinion, the opposite turned out to be true. He used the word "conservative" to define the College's care/response to students who have over-indulged in alcohol consumption.</p>

160

<p>come on theyre mostly rich kids, swat is going to protect
them and all they stand for from the real wide world, the
boro police are discouraged from coming on campus - theres
a hands off policy. When it comes to drugs and alc theyre
going to keep the authorities away as long as possible. theres
a lot of reps to keep up here its certainly not about the kids
health or getting help or anything like that. They should just
call the cops and do the community service - that would
actually be a learning experience for the kids.</p>