May be in some cases, @bluebayou but the fact is these schools are “impacted” and overcrowded, and it is an issue for some, perhaps those with popular majors.
Not everyone comes in with a ton of (useful) AP/IB credits. Summer classes can help…but some people need to work, too.
UCs and CSUs limit entry to impacted majors, so that enrollment in those majors does not exceed department capacity. Yes, it means that getting into the major is more competitive, but it means that will be space in the courses for those in the major. But that may mean taking the 8am section.
Not all colleges accept by major. If classes are small and only a handful of sections are offered it can be difficult for students to get the classes they want. If they have to take a couple of classes before they can declare the major and they’re waitlisted, that can be a problem.
If certain electives are only offered once every couple of years some may never have the opportunity to take the one they want. And if one is a prereq for another, getting closed out of the first means they never get the second one either. We sent our kids to large state schools. Class sizes are small (30 or so per class), but there are multiple sections and courses are offered every year so they haven’t had an issue getting what they want.
There seems to be a trend for families to pick financial reaches with the plan to graduate in 3 years. That’s not always possible. When class sizes are limited, underclassmen aren’t going to be allowed to bump an upperclassmen just because they sat they want to graduate early. When people choose colleges, they really should have a plan to pay for all 4 years.
Since a couple of the parents here have mentioned about the UC system, let me just say that it is of my opinion that graduating in 4 years at Berkeley is not an issue unless the student has planned poorly and has been lackadaisical about registering at the allotted time. Or they have dropped classes along the way and have fallen behind their 4-year plan.
So the way that Berkeley works for registration (in simplistic terms) is that you get 2 dates and times to register for a given semester. You choose 3 classes in Phase 1 and 1 class in Phase 2. If you plan properly, the classes that are most important to you, you register in Phase 1. In many majors, you can get registered right away (called “priority”) if you have declared for that major, but a lot of times you get waitlisted. Some majors protect all their classes by giving priority only to students who have declared. Others like Computer Science, are very welcoming to undeclared majors. CS is by far the most popular major at Berkeley and all their required lower division classes (and many of the upper division classes) are huge and even if you do get waitlisted ie you are a declared major in another field, usually you get in at the end, ie all the waitlist clears. For the upcoming semester, some freshman CS majors wanting to take EECS16B got shut out by the time they needed to register, but since this class is not a prereq for any other class it’s not a big deal to take the following semester.
Yes, I saw the story earlier this year about the student who was paying people to get off the waitlist so that he could get into a required class in his final semester, but I can guarantee you that he backed himself into a corner with poor planning and not because resources were so scarce.
My kid (CS major) is on track to graduate in 3 years. He’s never had a problem getting into any class that has been on his A target list. Except for one class in a different field that got cancelled at the last minute, and he made the mistake of replacing it with a class that was earmarked for the following semester that turned out to be way more time consuming than he bargained for. (Bad idea to take 4 hard CS/Math/Stat classes in a semester). Next school year (final year) I anticipate he might have a problem getting into a very popular class (CS189) since (depending on who teaches the class) the class fills up by the time 3rd year students register, but even there, there are other options. He’s got an entirely different problem in that he would prefer to stay 4 years, but that’s a different topic for another day.
Financial reaches may also require more student work hours, limiting the number of courses or credits a student can take each semester, preventing early graduation or causing late graduation. More work hours can also keep the student from being able to take a needed course whose time conflicts with work hours.
Also, remember that while A students in high school are typically academically capable of finishing college in 8 semesters, that is often less true for B students in high school, who are more likely to need 9 or 10 semesters to finish college.
Yes, of course, it is an issue for “some.” Many majors are not impacted.
But the caterwauling from students has gotten to epic proportions. It can’t be everyone as the stats posed above prove. UC has an excellent four year grad rate.
I remember being in a meeting with a Dean from Cal State Fullerton one year and he was asked that question. He stopped his preso, opened up his laptop and searched for open classes that term. He immediately showed us parents dozens of classes, many lower division/Intro, that were open at 8 am or the all-killer, early Friday morning.
Yes, many kids at UC have to work part time, and that may limit when they can take class. For these kids a 5-year plan may make sense, but let’s not blame course availability for that.
…as can online classes (transfer in?).
This is probably more of an issue for CSU students, many of whom attend CSUs as commuters because they are tied down by other constraints like work and/or family commitments that also limit the number of courses/credits they can take and what times of day they can take them.
I can’t believe a school would limit the number of courses taken in one’s major- Swarthmore CS was named. I would choose another school for that major. So many other, better, choices. Some CS courses are cross listed in the a math department- hmm, could a student use the math course number to avoid the limits???
Also, it is fair that honors students get preferential registration- they deserve it if the school has that policy. The old- why didn’t your kid do better in HS? I recall having scheduling difficulties fitting in honors classes/sections eons ago to get the lab/discussion section to work with other classes. I even once had the worst possible 2 credit honors organic lab- 7:45 am Friday and Saturday- 4 1/2 hours each (the only advantage was being able to let setups remain instead of dismantling and resetting). The TA’s manning tables penciled me in as I trekked throughout the campus one January (computer usage was extremely limited back in my day, although they even had a comp sci building for that department). I lack sympathy for today’s students needing to easily add/drop classes on their computers.
I know my son took a few courses out of sequence to make his schedule work- one was not having a prereq physics course but where his honors calc+ sequence meant he had the math backround at the time he was considering math or physics for his major. Plus the added fifth year when he added finishing the CS major instead of math grad school. He needed some of the hardware type focus courses he hadn’t taken.
D#1 went to Wyoming and had absolutely NO priority in registering. She was even in the second to last orientation section so almost the last to choose classes for freshman year. Her original major, theater, did reserve the required courses for majors so those classes were not an issue. In others, she always got into the courses but might not have had a preferred section or recitation section, but she got into the class. She also had to get permission to get into a few courses over the years because of pre-requisites, but never a problem. Most classes were capped at 24. Getting courses not an issue.
D#2 was in engineering at Florida Tech. For her second semester there was an issue with her registration (school’s fault) and the only section left in a course she needed was right in the middle of practice. Nothing the school could do, so sad, can’t over enroll a lab, blah blah blah - until the coach had it changed about 2 minutes later.
I have no idea if she had any issues after that first registration because she had a list of courses to take and she took them. She dealt with it and I never heard of any problems. And yes, she had priority registration because she was an athlete but I don’t think it mattered that much as there was usually only one or two sections of any class in her department.
Both graduated in 8 semesters. One took one needed (and 2 optional) classes one summer, but they both went to college with no AP/DE credits. Yes, it can be done by just taking ~15-16 credits per semester.