<p>Hi! I'm an incoming member of the Smith class of 2015 and I'm interested in study abroad. I have a few questions for any current/past Smithies or parents. </p>
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<li><p>How difficult is it to get into the program of your choice, particularly the Smith-run programs? I know it probably depends on the program, but say I arrange my schedule to take four semesters of a certain language to prepare for a program and then don't get into that program? Has anyone heard of this happening? Do most people apply to more than one, and if so, what about language requirements? </p></li>
<li><p>What are the benefits of going abroad for a semester vs. a year? I'm not sure if I'd want to be away for a full year, but the program I'm interested in, Smith in Florence, is only available for a year, whereas the one I'd consider my second choice, Smith in Hamburg, is available for either a semester or a year. Should this affect my decision? Especially since it would determine the language I choose to study for my first two years at Smith? </p></li>
<li><p>How much should my course of study determine the program I choose? I'm interested in the humanities (most likely either English or History) so it probably won't be as much of an issue as if I were majoring in the sciences. But to what extent should I consider my major when choosing a program? </p></li>
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<p>I know I have a long time to think about this, but any input is appreciated. Thanks!</p>
<p>I don’t know exactly, but I think if you get decent grades and fulfill the language requirements, you should be able to get into the program of your choice. The language departments really push their own programs and will help you prepare if need be. Usually the main obstacles to study abroad are either not having the language requirements fulfilled, not having a high enough GPA to qualify, or not being able to fulfill the credits you need to graduate (when you apply for study abroad you have to submit a plan outlining all the courses you plan to take junior and senior year, to prove that study abroad won’t prevent you from graduating on time). </p>
<p>Going abroad for a year is definitely better if you can swing it. You get more immersed in the culture, you have time to really pick up the language, and you have time to travel. A semester is really a very short period of time and in my experience, it takes about six months to become properly adjusted to a new culture before you get comfortable enough to really begin enjoying yourself like a local. I did one semester in England, which was fine, but I was mostly miserable and just when it started to get better, I had to go home.</p>
<p>You want to pick a program that’s not going to get in the way of your major, but otherwise it doesn’t really make a big difference. For certain science majors you may not be able to take classes abroad that will transfer or count for your major. For Smith programs, all the courses should transfer and be counted. Keep in mind though, if you do a non-Smith program your study abroad grades and GPA, while recorded, are not factored into your GPA at Smith. If you do a Smith-affiliated program, your grades will count towards your Smith GPA. So for non-Smith programs you have more flexibility to goof off because in the end, those grades won’t affect your graduation GPA, your PBK status, latin honors, etc. They may be factored in by grad schools though. But if you’re in a Smith program, it’s just like being at Smith. If you screw up, it will hurt your final GPA.</p>
<p>I believe that you are allowed to apply to 2 programs total. I don’t have the statistics, but only 1 person out of the at least 10-12 I know who applied to go abroad/off-campus for next year didn’t get into either program she applied to.</p>
<p>I think she’s saying that all but one person that she knew didn’t get into their programs. Could have been for a variety of reasons (grades being one of them. You need to make the grades to go abroad). For me, it was very easy to go abroad. I just decided I wanted to go to England, picked my program, filled out the application, and went. That’s how it works for most people. The Smith-run programs are a little more competitive, but there aren’t that many people that meet the language requirements in a given year (especially because the French speakers are divided across two programs, Geneva and Paris), and there aren’t that many people that meet the requirements that want to go strictly to Europe (Asia, the Middle East, and Africa are increasingly popular options. Also other European countries like Denmark and Britain).</p>
<p>My d. was in the Florence program 5 years ago, so info is a little dated. The full year was hugely beneficial, especially since English isn’t allowed as part of the program (and my d.'s home family spoke no English). Being there a year allowed her to join the University of Florence orchestra, and really made it possible for her to get to know Italy in a big way. And the program was spectacular (I had a nephew in the Duke/NYU program at the same time, and his was truly laughable - PM me for details.)</p>
<p>In her year, Smith rejected virtually all applicants from other colleges. Many of them couldn’t qualify language-wise, but even then, there was only so much space. Two Amherst students who took Italian at Smith were rejected for that reason. Smith also awarded my d. an extra grant (Boren? I don;t remember) to do some additional research for a month at the end of the year.)</p>
<p>Anyhow, folks are welcome to PM me, and I’ll answer as I can.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the info everyone! Very helpful!</p>
<p>So I’m getting the impression that if I take two full years of either German or Italian and maintain a high enough GPA (anyone have more specific info on what that means?) I shouldn’t have much of a problem getting into either the Florence or the Hamburg program. Does that sound right? </p>
<p>SmithieandProud, that’s an interesting point about the classes at non-Smith programs not factoring into your GPA for PBK and Latin Honors. It does sound like a benefit, but don’t both PBK and Latin Honors require a certain amount of classes or credits completed AT Smith? That said, wouldn’t that make it more difficult? Also, I was just at the admitted students days this week and I went to a panel on study abroad. There was a girl there who had done the program in Hamburg and said that her final grades in the classes she took in German were bumped up—I think a letter grade?—to reflect the fact that she took the classes in a foreign language. This applied to everyone on the program I think even though they all satisfied the German requirement for being in the program. Does anyone know if this is a common thing in Smith-run programs?</p>
<p>You can find out a lot of the info you want to know about specific programs by visiting the study abroad page on the Smith website. They should have info about GPA requirements as well. There is no specific GPA deadline for the program as far as I know, but there is a GPA cut off for study abroad in general. I think it’s about 3.0, but check the study abroad website to be sure. </p>
<p>Re: Latin Honors and PBK, yes, you have to complete a certain number of courses or credits at Smith, but you also have to qualify with your GPA. Your first year GPA is not counted towards this calculation, and neither are the grades you get while you’re abroad unless you are in a Smith program. I don’t think that’s a reason to not pick or pick a Smith program, but just in general I think people who do the Smith-run programs have to take their academics more seriously than people who are in non-Smith affiliated programs.</p>
<p>No thanks, I had plenty in Britain What I meant about taking academics more seriously applies in this case just to your academics while abroad. Not every study abroad program is equally academically strenuous, and when you know your grades aren’t really going to “count” in the end, it can be somewhat of a disincentive. That being said, study abroad is about a lot more than what you learn in the classroom, and having a lighter academic load so that you can travel, become more culturally immersed, etc. doesn’t have to be a bad thing.</p>
<p>Smith study abroad has three “tiers” or “classes” as I prefer to refer to them .</p>
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<li><p>Is Smith’s JYAs in either Florence, Geneva, Hamburg, or Paris. These are astonishingly easy to apply for. It’s a rather simple application, through Smith, and you don’t have to worry about your credits counting and life is good. You have the language and the GPA, you are set.</p></li>
<li><p>A “Smith approved” program is a bit more work. You have to apply to the program on your own and get accepted. You also have to have Smith approve your choice to go abroad. It’s still not terribly strenuous, and some of the programs, particularly the ones to England and Australia are really great and have a good deal of support behind them. Some of the other ones though (this is all what I’ve heard) can leave you very much on your own. </p></li>
<li><p>If you want to go on a non Smith approved program (Like I do) the process is long, difficult, and can be frustrating. You have to petition, so if you want to go Fall your junior year, petitions are due end of October your sophomore year. So you need to be thinking ahead. You not only have to apply to the program and get Smith to approve your program, you also have to do paperwork to get your credits to transfer back to Smith. The Smith study abroad office REALLY tries to push you into Smith programs (which, I understand. For most students, the choices are more than plentiful) and are not willing to help you pick a reputable program that isn’t on their list. I, for example, am learning Turkish and want to go to Turkey and was told I should consider going to Jordan, because we have a program there.
Just a personal anecdote of course. </p></li>
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I disagree with the idea that your grades won’t “count” if you’re not on a Smith approved program. Sure, Smith doesn’t “count” it, but future employers or organizations would surely want to see how you did while abroad.</p>
<p>At least in theory, Smith has done “due diligence” on all their approved programs. You wouldn’t believe the number of scam programs out there, including those run “under the auspices”, and even under the names of reputable universities (some even in the top 20). I think it is quite reasonable for Smith to ask students to think out their needs well in advance, so the college can indeed ensure that the program isn’t really simply a bunch of fluff, and not simply a course in young adult tourism.</p>
<p>Well, all I can say is that D did not have a lighter load abroad so that she could travel. She got the worst grade of her undergrad career in a Budapest class and from texts used, etc., felt that the program aligned with early graduate school rather than undergrad in terms of difficulty…an opinion that was a consensus.</p>
<p>Yes, she traveled, but only during the Hungarian breaks. Budapest Semester(s) in Mathematics (BSM) has a tough reputation…and it’s not a Smith-run program.</p>
<p>Her friends who did Oxford and Rome did not find it a lark either though they found it immensely rewarding.</p>
<p>Well, every program is different, of course. I wasn’t at Oxford, though I was in England. I found my classes rewarding, but since i was there for a semester and not a year I didn’t have the same kind of demands as a student there for a year (I didn’t have to sit end of year exams). My courses were interesting to attend (and I did attend), but I had little to now required coursework throughout the semester. Similar stories with my friends in other programs. But of course, a small sample size is not a universal decree.</p>
<p>Spirit, if you are going to be an English major and seriously consider grad school and if you intend to take a language at Smith, I would recommend either French or German as they will likely be required in grad school. My daughter, an English major, is intending to take a language in grad school (if she goes); she didn’t want to take the time to learn a new language in undergrad because she didn’t know which would be appropriate to her focus in literature. So that decision has limited her study abroad choices to English-speaking countries and the policy at Smith is generally you can only go to an English-speaking study abroad program for a semester. She has applied to two British universities and has been accepted at one so far. I’m not divulging yet as she hasn’t decided; she wants to check in with a senior English major for some feedback before she makes her decision, so stay tuned! My daughter also decided to only go abroad for one semester because she didn’t want to miss too much of the Smith experience!</p>
<p>^ You can definitely go to an English-speaking study abroad program for a year, in fact, I would strongly encourage it. I went for a semester and it was fairly miserable, but that had to do with a lot of things not program related. I think if I had started in the fall and stayed for the year, it would have been better all around.</p>
<p>S&P, since you were at Smith, the policy has changed to generally only one semester in English-speaking countries. My daughter was initially disappointed in hearing about it, but then realized it would give her more time at Smith. However, she was worried that as a lot of other American colleges allow a full year abroad, these British schools are less inclined to accept a “half-year” student, making the process more competitive for Smith students. Fortunately, a friend of my daughter’s who’s planning to be a marine biologist was successfully able to petition Smith for a whole year abroad at English-speaking countries with the argument that her going to the Turks and Caicos Islands first semester and Bangor, Wales second semester would give her two very different marine environments. (To complete this student’s story, she’s doing her Praxis in Maine this summer with a marine scientist who’s studying Antarctica!)</p>
<p>My daughter was approved by Smith and accepted at LSE for next year, so it is possible to spend an entire year in London.</p>
<p>She e-mailed us last week to say that, due to some advocating by her French professor, she may go to Paris instead. That would have been her first choice, but her current French class isn’t at the necessary level required by the program. The professor talked to the study abroad people to have them waive the requrement for her. I love that fact that Smith professors care so much about their students and take the time to see the potential in them.</p>
What I meant about taking academics more seriously applies in this case just to your academics while abroad. Not every study abroad program is equally academically strenuous, and when you know your grades aren’t really going to “count” in the end, it can be somewhat of a disincentive. That being said, study abroad is about a lot more than what you learn in the classroom, and having a lighter academic load so that you can travel, become more culturally immersed, etc. doesn’t have to be a bad thing.</p>