<p>My daughter is starting to consider studying abroad.</p>
<p>Things have changed since I spent my junior year abroad in Germany. </p>
<p>Now you can study abroad for just three or four weeks, or study abroad but take college courses in English.</p>
<p>Much of what I consider valuable about my time abroad was learning the language and spending sufficient time out of country to really adjust to living in a different culture.</p>
<p>What can one gain of value in a few short weeks or by living in a country where you don't speak the language and aren't planning on taking the time or effort to learn it?</p>
<p>I guess it depends. I’ve spent a fair amount of time in the Netherlands and don’t speak Dutch, but there’s still a lot you can learn from the art museums, Anne Frank’s house etc. A budding art historian, could probably learn a lot from a visit almost anywhere. That said, I don’t like programs where you spend the entire time with people from your own country and your own school. I’d rather at least be involved in an international program so that even if you aren’t getting to know the locals, you might at least get the Australian or British point of view. </p>
<p>A short stay with intensive language study can be pretty effective. I spent four weeks at a Goethe Institute after my freshman year. I’d had one year of German before going, by the end of the four weeks, I was very comfortable speaking.</p>
<p>How well did you do in your one year of German before your time at the Goethe Institute?</p>
<p>My daughter has not done especially well in her language study to date (and I also didn’t do well in language study prior to my time abroad - although I did learn the language in country).</p>
<p>If the program only lasts a few week, I would just think of it as a sort of enriched vacation, not “living” abroad, and adjust my expectations accordingly. I agree with you that for learning a language or real cultural exposure/immersion you need to stay a lot longer. Even a semester is short, but your daughter might feel it’s enough - depends what she wants to get from it. It seems fewer people take a full academic year now. My husband, a French major, spent his junior year in France, and managed a year in Belgium after college (still fluent in French 30 years later). I went to college on the very cheap, but serendipitously wound up working in Ireland for 1 1/2 years afterwards. Our older daughter is a French minor and hopes to spend a semester in France next year but doesn’t want to spend 2 semesters though my H actually urged her to do so. She did spend 6 months of a gap year in Africa, including 3 months in Senegal, where she took a lot of French lessons. If I had the freedom to go submerge my aging brain in a Spanish-speaking environment, I would.</p>
<p>P.S., if your daughter spends a semester in a country where she’d like to learn the language, she might be able to room with a native speaker, and she might be able to pick a program in a region where few locals speak English.</p>
<p>lisa, I agree with you that the shorter programs seem more akin to an enriched vacation.</p>
<p>I was investigating my daughter’s remaining required courses and it seems like it must be very difficult for many students to complete distribution requirements and courses for a major and still have time to spend a full year abroad.</p>
<p>My d would able to spend a full semester abroad only with very careful planning of her course schedule.</p>
<p>It does seem much more difficult these days to do a year abroad vs a semester. My nephew found a program that included semester and a summer, which got him 7 months instead of four.</p>
<p>I know that many with disagree with me, but I feel that often study abroad is a waste of money.</p>
<p>Academically the program is often much weaker than what the “home” school offers, and, depending on your school and finaid, many will end up costing you double or more of what they are worth.</p>
<p>It makes perfect sense to go abroad and study art in Florence, especially if the program is well structured. It makes perfect sense to study abroad if you are majoring in foreign language or international relations. I don’t see the great value of studying abroad just for the experience of living abroad. The same experience can be acquired for much less than $25K per semester.</p>
<p>It’s not any harder to do a year abroad now - students simply choose semester option because it’s easier (and much, much less effective.) If you have the means to send a child on a 3-week/3 month program overseas, by all means encourage it. But don’t think that it’s going to do a whole lot more than offer your kid a dream vacation
And by “a whole lot more” I mean language and culture acquisition, particularly if the program is meant for American college students where immersion is nil or even nearly nil.</p>
<p>"If the program only lasts a few week, I would just think of it as a sort of enriched vacation, not “living” abroad.</p>
<p>I too agree with Lisa. Much like a teen tour, the US college students are plopped in a country with US faculty, and travel around together; such programs tend not to have a language requirement even for study in countries where English is not the official language. And, these programs tend to be cash cows for the univ/college - - an extra $3-4K for a few weeks in the summer, January intersession or May semester.</p>
<p>I disagree with the shorter programs not having any value. My daughter did a five week abroad in Peru with a Spanish major group. The students had lectures every day by the Prof’s that traveled with them as well as papers to do and present. They had homestays with local people and traveled quite a bit from Machu Piccchu to Lake Titicaca. The cost to us was $200 for part of the flight and some souveniers. The college paid everything else. This was an immersion abroad and the families they stayed with and the lectures were all in Spanish. My daughter went to a college with trimesters and this one was a bit shorter then most, but all of the ones at her college are set up like that with the prof’s traveling with the kids.</p>
<p>I’ve noticed that most of the short abroads are set up like this. At my son’s college they are offered in the month of May. I’m not sure they have as much value as one where you stay a whole semester but to say that they are not worth doing is wrong, in my opinion. Anytime you go out of the country you are going to learn something and expand your world view.</p>
<p>For me the difference is being a visitor to a culture/place, and having the opportunity to settle in and be part of the culture/place. </p>
<p>Even so, a semester long program in Florence living in a dorm or university housing with a zillion other English speakers around isn’t going to do a whole lot to help you soak into Italy. Spending six months living with a family in a small village, on the other hand, brings you a lot closer to what it means to be Italian. On the other hand, a six week program on art of Italy taught in Florence could be really good at helping you understand Italian art – I just wouldn’t take it to be a lot more than that. </p>
<p>Lectures are fine, but I don’t think that lectures are where you internalize the deeper aspects of the country.</p>
<p>I don’t know your daughter’s language, but you might check a program called API (Academic Programs International). I know they have year/semester/summer programs. Students generally stay w/families. They offer summer intensive programs in Spain and France, and I don’t know where else. My daughter is a double English/Spanish major/French minor. She spent the first semester in UK, is now in Spain, and plans to do a summer intensive in France next summer.</p>
<p>As an aside, my daughter’s university this year had a COA of ~$41,000, but because they let her scholarship go with her, our cost for this entire year has been ~$5000 +airfare. Study abroad does not have to be more expensive than a year at home.</p>
I am not naturally talented in languages. I had a B in first year German. It moved along at what seemed to me an incredible clip (the equivalent of about three years of high school) by the end of the year we were reading a mystery. I found it much easier to learn though than French, thanks to having already had an immersion experience with a language.</p>
<p>To be clear 4 weeks after one year of language can really nail down a language, but 4 weeks coming in cold, I think would be much less effective.</p>
<p>I will also say in addition to spending weeks in Germany, I also had the experience of spending a school year before college living with a French family (I was a dunce at French in high school, but spoke fluently by the end of the year) and going to an institute with an international school body and the experience of going to work in Germany after grad school. The homestay taught me a lot about French culture, but actually working (and having my first child) in a country taught me a whole new way of experiencing a foreign culture. So I do know the difference!</p>
<p>I don’t care for either. I’ve been abroad on several occasions. Yes, I’m one of those people who just “breaks away” from the group of Americans and explores on her own… eats locally… listens to the locals chatter in their language… attempts to speak the language when making transactions… dating the locals… et cetera. I have found that the more immersed one is in the country, the more effective “study abroad” is. That rejection letter from my own university’s department’s study group for London was a huge blessing. Study abroad away from my school and friends and interacting with the locals had a profound effect on my own studies.</p>
<p>Which is why I’m worried about my little brother deciding to go to Barcelona with his hometown buddies for a semester next year… he doesn’t speak a word of Spanish and they’re enrolling in a program in English… My parents keep reminding me that he’s not outgoing and adventurous as I am… but then what’s the point of studying abroad? He’s going to be partying and speaking English the whole time!</p>
<p>We ended up having some fairly serious discussions about study abroad with our daughter and ended up with a list of three items, any one of which would make a study abroad experience worthwhile:</p>
<p>a) A life changing cultural experience (and I’m not talking about seeing the museums in Rome for the second time).</p>
<p>b) Total immersion and fluency in a language (i.e. a serious language program with homestays and all courses conducted in the language).</p>
<p>c) A program that contributed signficantly to the major and/or some targeted academic direction.</p>
<hr>
<p>There are English-language programs that easily qualify under a) or c). What wouldn’t qualify is living with a bunch of American students in Rome, taking courses in English, and generally enjoying a fine European vacation. We suggested that, if that were the goal, take a semester off from college, buy a backpack, and go have fun (for a heck of a lot less than $25,000 a semester!)</p>
<p>BTW, Swarthmore publishes a really superb overview of study abroad programs. It’s a terrific resource for students and parents trying to get a handle on the options and what to look for in good programs. Well worth the read. It begins:</p>
<p>I can’t comment on the short stay aspect but my D did a Math program in Budapest, taught in English, that’s highly regarded. Now, it was semester long and it provided some substantial courses towards her Math major. </p>
<p>She still took Hungarian, a difficult language, and was immersed in the culture outside the classroom. She learned a <em>lot</em> outside the classroom, on many different levels, e.g., Hungary today is about as sexist as the USA in 1955 and their TV & advertising have production values of the same era, not that there’s any correlation. She also had trips to Vienna (2), Italy, and Sweden over school breaks, plus a long weekend up Krakow & Auschwitz. </p>
<p>So, yeah, the English thing would not be a deal breaker for me. Might feel differently about a Humanities-based program.</p>
<p>I will say your daughter should be sure to check with her school office about what is allowed for study abroad and which programs are approved. At my daughter’s school students are required to take a course in the language of the country they are in.</p>
<p>Just to add some info(as I do not find study abroad to be waste of time) my daughter did a semester abroad in Budapest in a math program (Budapest Semesters in Math) which has existed for 25 years. It is intended for North American students studying math and related topics and taught in English by Hungarian Professors from local universities. Students stay in apartments or with local families, their choice. A professor from the University where she attends grad school now did remark that it is an excellent program. Many courses are theory based and they cover combonitorics which is well developed in Hungary. I think the program was founded in part by Paul Erdos.</p>
<p>The cost was less than her school and the financial aid could be applied. In addition, she applied for and got a Gilman Scholarship for study abroad (must be Pell Grant eligible.)There were many kids from very </p>
<p>She thought it was a great experience and was able to travel to Prague, Ukraine, Instanbul, Berlin, Lombardy, Paris and London–yes, so vacation too at semester end.</p>
That said, I don’t like programs where you spend the entire time with people from your own country and your own school. I’d rather at least be involved in an international program so that even if you aren’t getting to know the locals, you might at least get the Australian or British point of view. </p>