Study of the "Hook-up" culture on campus

Parents Forum
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<p>"Bring Back Dating?" I read the article. It defines hooking up to include all forms of sexual gratification one can give another. </p>

<p>It says dating is a prelude to marriage, which is a prelude to sex. "Prelude" is defined in the dictionary as: something that serves as a preceding event or introduces what follows.</p>

<p>It suggests a "simple" solution, stop having sex before marriage. Just "date," which it seems to suggest is sexual abstinence. Its not clear about the non-intercourse stuff.</p>

<p>OK---I'm not sure marriage in college is something I'm going to push on my S. Most of us on this thread acknowledge that college aged young adults have always been having sexual intercourse. Any of you parents want your 18+ college aged daughter to get married now?</p>

<p>So, is the idea to only "date" for several years while in college? If "dating" allows for the non-intercourse stuff, the article says you can get certain STD from contact short [no pun intended] of intercourse. So, only "date" one person?</p>

<p>Anyone see this as a hard sell, especially if there is no non-intercourse stuff involved?</p>

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<p>
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Maybe somewhere there's a Planet of Rational Lovers where people make clear-eyed decisions about such things -- maybe you even live there, corranged -- but I haven't visited it yet.

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I assure you, I have my own special set of hang-ups. :)</p>

<p>The co-dependent thing is obnoxious, though, and watching a relationship go on and on when it should have already ended is just sad.</p>

<p>I don't have a problem with casual sex. Teach your kids to respect themselves and others, and teach safe sex, and then whatever choices your kids make, well, at least they'll be safe and treating everybody right.</p>

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<p>Wow. This thread is going all over the place. Especially like the dolfin shorts part, not that I could ever wear them, though mini-skirts were okay? Hm. </p>

<p>One swain, actually H #1 said the first positive? thing he noticed about me was that I didn't seem to care who saw my underpants. Talk about a walk of shame.</p>

<p>I am not the one objecting to "hooking up", it was D. Definitely more conservative than I was. AIDS? perhaps? Friends do hook up, with both men and women. </p>

<p>JHS: Cute story.</p>

<p>My relationships have been all over the place, so I don't have the happy ending some of you do, though H is a good friend. Lots has happened to both of us. So I don't worry about bad relationships lasting. As long as people are growing, they'll figure it out, or they won't. IMO it's hard to be on this planet alone. Or is that too serious?</p>

<p>Just for a different perspective, One of my students was into hooking up a lot and was so criticized by other girls in her suite (Stony Brook, not my CC) she did try to commit suicide. So sad. In her case it was exacerbated by her South Asian upbringing.</p>

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<p>Without getting too specific, I'm trying (as a mom) to figure out my own comfort level with D (HS senior) who is rapidly moving into her first real relationship with college junior who studies in another state. D will be headed to the opposite coast in the fall. In spite of these obstacles, the attraction is strong, and the relationship (physical and emotional) seems to be moving forward as opportunity permits. There seems to be no "big picture" thinking going on, like "why continue this likely doomed connection in the face of looming extreme separation?" </p>

<p>I can't decide whether to encourage this or to put up some road blocks. (I can refuse to sanction an upcoming proposed visit by D to guy, for example.) But part of me remembers being 19 and my willingness to ride for 36 hours round trip in a small car with strangers to spend a weekend with my then boyfriend, now husband. And how little rational adult thinking would have meant to me then. </p>

<p>Thanks for your honest discussion, you all. Why did I complain about potty training?</p>

<p>I'm going to add that the reason I'm posting this story on this thread is that I am struggling believing that either of these two will be "faithful" in the next few years, should they continue "dating". This thread is discouraging, as is my own experience/observation. This scares me the most, as I worry about warning D about possible other experiences the boyfriend might be having in her absense. Pure speculation, no evidence here.</p>

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<p>Anecdote: a young friend of mine said that having a girlfriend back home actually relieved a lot of social pressure. He was busy as a varsity swimmer and a chem major and could concentrate on these because he was not "single."</p>

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<p>riverrunner: I like something John Updike said, "If we judge things by whether or not they last forever, everything is a failure, even the universe."</p>

<p>I think if it is a good thing for now, future will answer other questions. We can't really know.</p>

<p>My D's rat-b boyfriend (excuse unladylike ejaculation) broke up with her the day her financial aid package from Barnard came, and she could finally sigh a sigh of giant relief: there were no obstacles to her attending the school of her dreams.</p>

<p>He drove 3 hours from New Jersey to eastern Long Island to break up with her. They sat in our family room for 2+ hours with her crying. (Supposedly he was coming to celebrate with her.) A confused boy. I should be more understanding and generous. Okay. I am now.</p>

<p>I finally threw him out, the first (and last) time I have ever kicked anyone out of my house. But she was attached, as to a live electric wire, and would not have been able to let go herself. They were both quite shocked that I would do this, pardon the pun. </p>

<p>Still, I know she is grateful for the experience and would not change it. I presume they were intimate. We never discussed it. Yes, he was a college junior, too.</p>

<p>Painful yes, but not destructive. She learned, she grew, she had felt loved, she knew she was lovable. She suffered. She got experience. </p>

<p>Fast forward three years, he has a girlfriend he claims he doesn't like and is still emailing D. </p>

<p>I did not intervene at all until that traumatic moment. He came back to the house again, "as a friend." Again, I did not intervene.</p>

<p>So, my advice is to trust your daughter. If she is like you, (the you from the above post) she is thoughtful and going to figure out what to do.</p>

<p>Think of how many girlfriends girls go through. We survive.</p>

<p>JMO.</p>

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<p>riverrunner:</p>

<p>You mention you being 19 and what you did and felt and you refer to your experiences and life observations. I speculate that these are the things that make you YOU. Your daughter needs her set of such experiences to become HER. Don't get YOU and HER confused.</p>

<p>Is it easy to step back? NO-- Is it likely that what you "fear," may happen? -- posssibly/probably. Will she "survive?" Well, you did. </p>

<p>I feel your pain. To "slightly" alter an old movie line: "parenting young adults?!?!? I don't know nothin' bout parenting no young adults!" </p>

<p>Where did that instruction manual go?</p>

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<p>mafool, you may have something. He is writing a thesis and this may be the best kind of relationship for him right now.</p>

<p>mythmom, I read your earlier post and had twinges of deja vu. You and I think similarly about the okness of moving into physical/emotional ties at this age. I really can't see my D waiting until after grad school to discover men and all the excitement, heartbreak, breathless anticipation, and godaweful immaturity they can bring (two way street, by the way). Thanks for reminding me that I can't fix, predict or undo any of this, nor should I try. So far I've sent her to my good friend, the PA, who hands out STD and contraception advice with honest stats and true concern. Maybe that's all I should do for now.</p>

<p>07DAD Thanks. Can you tell this is my oldest? By the way, I wore the turqoise and white striped Dolfin shorts, much to my father's chagrin.</p>

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<p>Yup. You're great and done all that needs to be done.</p>

<p>And as I've already said, endlessly jealous of anyone who could (can) where those shorts.</p>

<p>Lucky you.</p>

<p>About the STD stuff and all, in NY they drill this into their heads at school and they learn to put condoms on bananas in mixed company. Don't know if they do that stuff your way. Boy, I am regressing. Stuff?</p>

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<p>We speak in specific terms about "that stuff" at our house, as does my PA friend, thank goodness. At school, not so much....we live in a state that teaches abstinence. And we have a high teen pregnancy rate. Duh.</p>

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<p>I just wanted to post my own view on this. I am a college student in the upper class. I am not religious or from a background where my parents wouldn't allow me to date, etc., and I go to a school with a very strong hook-up culture. I just don't understand it. Like someone else said, I find it quite disgusting. Yes, all human beings have urges and hormones, and I do to, but I think that being able to control those urges is what actually separates us from animals. I think it is possible to wait for marriage (I have been in a relationship with someone for quite a while, and we are both fine with it; again, it's not a religious or cultural thing for either of us) or at the very least for something meaningful. I think it's not OK to just do anything as long as both people agree to it, and I have seen even the most "liberal" (in that area) of people get hurt. Overall, I just don't understand a society (be it ours or a past one) that advocates one kind of intimacy without another. If you hormones are acting up, my advice would be to go exercise.</p>

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<p>acollegestudent said:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I go to a school with a very strong hook-up culture. I just don't understand it. Like someone else said, I find it quite disgusting. ... I think it's not OK to just do anything as long as both people agree to it, and I have seen even the most "liberal" (in that area) of people get hurt.

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</p>

<p>I used the "search this thread" feature and could not find the word "disgusting" in any other post.</p>

<p>I think some people have a huge fear of getting hurt. I have experienced that "getting hurt" is a natural by-product of living. This is not just in the sexual arena. </p>

<p>What I propose is that one's personal fear is not a basis for a moral judgment of the "risky" conduct. Also, there is a tendancy to take what you don't "understand," label it disgusting and then elevate it to morally reprehensible. </p>

<p>Its a neat trick the mind plays to justify, rather than deal with, the root cause of the fear. So, say, the root cause of a fear is insecurity (e.g, I don't think I can sustain a relationship if there is "competiton"), it would be helpful to mask that as "having more that one sexual partner is disgusting" and then announcing that it is morally wrong. </p>

<p>Also, when I am fully engaged in living my life and enjoying it moment by moment, I find that I don't have time to think or care much about the propriety of what others are doing.</p>

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<p>I didn't use the word "disgusting", but that's my feeling. While I don't expect anyone to wait until marriage, I think some type of emotional tie would be required. I love acollegestudent's animal analogy. Are we raising our children to just do whatever feels good?</p>

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<p>Why not? Why are rules so wonderful? Why is feeling good so awful?</p>

<p>The only difficult I can see is when people's behavior makes themselves or others feel bad. Then it's time for a change.</p>

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<p>When touring on Ohio Wesleyan two summers ago, the young lady giving the tour mentioned the "Walk of Shame" when she was showing us the exteriors of the Dorms and referred to some Frat Houses and their location vis-a-vis the dorms.</p>

<p>Needless to say that I did not appreciate having to explain to my HS Junior daughter just what the "Walk of Shame" meant.</p>

<p>BTW, that ended her interest in OWU.</p>

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<p>That ended her interest in Ohio Wesleyan? What schools kept her interest? I imagine that if you used never hearing the phrase "Walk of Shame" as a criterion, you could cut down that college list real fast. Kind of a silly criterion, though. And, honestly, why wouldn't you appreciate the opportunity to discuss these issues with your 16- or 17-year-old daughter, especially if she was really fresh enough to ask for an explanation?</p>

<p>Also, I want to emphasize that there's a whole lot of middle ground between "disgusting" and "it's great". I think hook-up culture is a phase that lots of kids, but far from all of them, go through -- maybe for a few years, a few months, or even a few hours. Everyone grows out of it (I hope), but not necessarily before they graduate from college. The overwhelming majority survives it without permanent emotional or physical damage, although I imagine that the overwhelming majority picks up a few emotional or physical dings along the way that take a little work to repair. </p>

<p>So are people -- even the "most liberal about this" -- hurt? Of course they are. Is it appropriate to try to protect your children from ever being hurt when they are away at college? I don't think so. I hope not, anyway, because if I was supposed to do that I've been failing miserably.</p>

<p>Here's one of the things I told my kids about sex, no later than their high-school junior years: People tend to invest it with meaning. No matter how much they tell you it's meaningless, or how much you tell that to yourself, chances are they (or you) are lying, maybe to themselves (yourself), too. If you think it's OK because it's meaningless, to you or to someone else, that's a red flag that it's not OK and you're playing with fire. And if you aren't ready to accept the burden of what it may mean to someone else, or to you, back off, because you're either about to get hurt, or about to hurt someone else (even if you care about them, too). And probably both.</p>

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<p>
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I think that being able to control those urges is what actually separates us from animals.

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</p>

<p>
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I love acollegestudent's animal analogy. Are we raising our children to just do whatever feels good?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
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People tend to invest it [sex] with meaning.

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</p>

<p>
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Why is feeling good so awful?</p>

<p>The only difficult I can see is when people's behavior makes themselves or others feel bad. Then it's time for a change.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>OK-- I'll take a stab.</p>

<p>The conscious decision to have sex is exerting "control" over the urge to have sex. It is just not just a girl being overcome with uncontrolable lust, getting naked and yelling "come and get it."</p>

<p>I surely didn't raise my S to seek out pain. There is enough pain without trying to inflict it on yourself. So, doing what feels good, whether it is singing in the church choir, working for Habitat for Humanity or having consensual sex, is a positive thing. I don't think passing on something, just because it feels good, is a wise personal philosophy.</p>

<p>Consensual sex does have meaning. But it can mean human contact with a pleasurable physical/sexual release. So if at a particular moment that is the meaning both participants place on sex, the pair is in sync.</p>

<p>Which leads me to mythmom's observation. Feeling good isn't awful and when what once felt good no longer does, you will know it and move on. Sadder? Perhaps, but wiser, and when it was good the better for it.</p>

<p>It is "choice" of casual sex that some find disturbing. So long as each person gets to make his or her choice on the issue where's the problem? Some will choose casual sex like toledo's son, but, as JHS states, that may only be for a while. Others will choose never to have casual sex. </p>

<p>That's why its called a choice: it is making your own personal decision whether to have or abstain from sex at any particular time which is "control" over sexual urges that acollegestudent says she supports. </p>

<p>I just believe that the choice that the person makes is her or his own business, and neither is "disgusting."</p>

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<p>07Dad, JHS and mythmom, you are making so much sense to me. Thanks a million.</p>

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<p>For what it's worth, since people started talking about how these young people can just move on from that experience and change their behavior:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you are like that in college, it would be naive to think that it does not screw up your ideas about intimacy and will not lead to any problems down the line in a committed relationship or marriage.</p></li>
<li><p>Even if 1 were not true, a lot of people I know (people who certainly do not subscribe to my views but are still more conservative) would not want to have any sort of a serious commitment to a person who has hooked up randomly in the past. Finding out about this "history" often leads to pain for the person. So the these people are not only hurting their potential future partner but also making sure that a lot of people who are serious about relationship will want nothing to do with them. Of course, I guess they could just pick a person who is into the same things, but I wonder how well that would work.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>
[quote]
Even if 1 were not true, a lot of people I know (people who certainly do not subscribe to my views but are still more conservative) would not want to have any sort of a serious commitment to a person who has hooked up randomly in the past.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can definitely understand a worry about STDs. I can also understand a worry that a person who is not used to committing will not be able to commit. On the other hand, a person who has hooked up before but is now in a serious relationship is highly likely to know the difference between the two. So if they get tested and come back STD-negative, what's the problem?</p>

<p>
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So the these people are not only hurting their potential future partner but also making sure that a lot of people who are serious about relationship will want nothing to do with them.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See, I look at the other side of the coin, and think that the people who would only date people who didn't hook up are eliminating lots of wonderful people from their pool. Their loss. I would also dispute the idea that hooking up necessarily means hurting your future partner, which brings me to...</p>

<p>
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Finding out about this "history" often leads to pain for the person.

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</p>

<p>Why? If the person with the "history" was dishonest, that's one thing. If they were honest about it, why should it be hurtful? I genuinely don't understand this.</p>

<p>07DAD's post is wonderful. I agree with pretty much all of it.</p>