<p>I agree with Charles Murray (author of Real Education). My understanding of his position: </p>
<p>Make sure the liberal arts are taught in high school. </p>
<p>Let the future business/political leaders (top 5% of students) go to a LAC and focus on the study of ethics. </p>
<p>Everyone else should attend career-focused programs to prepare for employment. Most occupations don’t need 4 years of in-class instruction. They require some instruction, but much more practical application and experience.</p>
<p>How? A great many high schoolers’ parents are convinced that the purpose of high school is to prepare the child for a vocational career. Where I live our multiple-district vocational center can barely keep up with the demand for its offerings.</p>
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<p>So we’re going to make the decision after high school who will be the future business/political leaders? Sounds very European to me. And on what basis is it decided who the top 5% are, and who gets to make that call? Furthermore, the “study of ethics” doesn’t ensure ethical decision making; it just means that one can distinguish ethical behavior from non-ethical behavior, and even that depends on what ethical school of thought one accepts.</p>
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<p>Personally, I wouldn’t want to drive across a bridge or fly in an airplane designed by someone with “some instruction,” nor would I want to be operated on or defended in court by someone with “some instruction.”</p>
<p>Great discussion! I’m a long time high school teacher. Yesterday, I worked at a farmer’s market and see 50-60 former students every time (different students for the most part). It is a thrill to see the maturation they all go through. College or not, almost EVERY young person turns out. And for the most part, are much more interesting adults than they were as young people.</p>
<p>I will say the ones that are lucky enough to attend and then graduate have more self confidence, and it doesn’t matter what the major was. If a person is interested in their world, and bother to learn either online, voracious reading, and conversation, or college, they are more interesting people.</p>
<p>A lot of people want to go to college only to learn with no interest in their exit options. College for me is revolving around one thing - the job I will be receiving after.</p>
<p>College is a place where an individual is exposed to different subjects in the hopes that said individuals might improve in critical analysis, writing skills, and perspective skills. It is also a place where an individual can prove proficient in a field of study in the hopes of being employed in said field.</p>
<p>College is indeed a “springboard to success in life.” But a successful life is so much more than how much money you make or what you do to earn it. That’s part of life, but not the whole enchilada.</p>
<p>luv2lrn, I’m glad to see this thread changed you from a lurker to a poster! Hope you keep participating!</p>
<p>It seems that “employability” is actually a key factor for just about everyone. Surely not many people can afford to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars on intellectual exploration purely for its own sake.</p>
<p>But…</p>
<p>Does one gain that much specific, applicable knowledge in most majors? I was an engineering major, certainly one of the more pragmatic ones, but in my career as an engineer I actually applied very little, if any, of the textbook material I learned. I’m sure I applied more problem-solving skills that my school emphasized. And, without the degree, there’s no way I would have ever been hired in any of my engineering positions. So, for me, I’d say it was mostly the credential and learning how to think vs. any specific skills.</p>
<p>So, if I wanted to hire a new grad, would I be better off hiring someone with specific coursework, or, say, an anthropology major who had gone through Columbia’s Core Curriculum? If I needed an expert in database architecture, I guess I’d go for the CMU guy who had the courses and practical experience. But if I wasn’t recruiting for highly specific skills, perhaps the “intellectual exploration” candidate would be better than someone who slogged through more specific coursework but didn’t demonstrate much intellectual curiosity.</p>
<p>Intellectual exploration doesn’t necessarily conflict with being able to find a job.</p>
<p>It really is a matter of choice. There are some who did not even go to college, but have far richer lives than those who entered one. But there are some who did not go to one, but they feel that they are just limited with their resources. It is all in a matter of perspective and how we value college education. When I went to my university, I felt that I really belong to one and I love everyday that I spent there. My youngest brother didn’t feel the same way. He entered one, but wasn’t able to finish the course. After finally realizing college was not for him, he moved to Europe and got married. Now, he is working and lives happily without the degree and student loans that comes with it.</p>
<p>But would that anthropology student have the math and science skills to be an engineer? I’m not familiar with Columbia’s core, maybe he would, but in general engineering students take a lot more math and science then the average bloke.</p>
<p>Obviously there is more flexibility for some careers than others, for instance and English major would be useless as a nurse no matter how good her critical thinking is. Whereas a math major might just make a great engineer.</p>
<p>Sure, explore your interests, expand your horizons. That’s what those electives are for, but you need to major in something that will lead to a career that will pay the bills. Maybe that doesn’t mean taking EE for an EE job, but it does mean planning ahead for what comes after college.</p>
<p>I wish my family was as rich as all you guys who don’t go to college to get a good job. I also applaud you on your dedication to academics. I feel like most people would spend that 50k a year on like a vacation or something if they thought that they could get the same exact jobs with a high school diploma as with a college diploma.</p>
<p>There’s no reason an English major can’t go to med school. Medical schools actually tend to value humanities majors highly.</p>
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<p>Thanks for the patronizing advice. I’ll have to go ahead and disregard it as my school doesn’t offer business, premed or engineering. I guess I’ll have to settle for classics and religion; please don’t be mad.</p>
<p>The purpose of college stopped being primarily for intellectual/personal growth - and available only to the elite - when we decided that we should educate the masses… at the same time, how does one “grow” intellectually/personally without first acquiring new skills or knowledge? And can one only grow as a result of a college experience? Does this process end once college is completed? For that matter, does intellectual’personal growth lead to citizens who will give back to society? (this of course assumes that someone who acquires skills/knowledge will presumably be contributing to society through whatever “work” they are doing) </p>
<p>If only 12% of society thinks the purpose of “college” can be for both acquiring skills/knowledge and for intellectual/personal growth, then perhaps our colleges have failed since the majority seem not to have developed what I see as the the MAIN purpose of college: 6) to expand on and further develop critical thinking skills and analytical abilities (regardless of discipline and that we feel are necessary for all members of society at one level or another), in order to meet the demands and needs of society </p>
<p>Or perhaps that is the same as 1) ?</p>
<p>What a worthless survey… As the 71-yr old poster above so accurately noted:</p>
<p>VeilOfMaya - no, if a company needs an engineer they’ll need to hire someone with an engineering degree (even if the company then has to provide its own training). But if they need a sales person, or an entry-level manager, or PR person, the student’s undergrad major may not be that important.</p>
<p>Don’t be ridiculous, just because you’re majoring in classics or religion doesn’t mean that you’re not going to college to get a job after you graduate.</p>
<p>Annasdad: "How sad to so limit yourself during the best four years of your life. "</p>
<p>How sad it is if these are the best 4 years of your life. What is there to look forward too? Best argument yet for making it 5 or 6 years…if they are going to be the best you will ever have.</p>
<p>Reed offers the courses needed to fulfill pre-med requirements. Pre-med courses can be done alongside any major.</p>
<p>It also offers 3/2 programs for engineering, although 3/2 programs do not seem like a good idea in general (basically, they are like using an expensive liberal arts college in the role of an inexpensive community college).</p>