<p>A constant question comes up in our house about how time management needs to be spent in this overly stressful Junior year in high school. For a student who is certain to pursue a BM degree is it more important to have a rigorous schedule and strive for good grades, or spend the maximum amount of time on their instrument and composing. (Plans to major in composition.) There seems to be a strong divide in opinions. I am aware that merit money comes to those with the highest academics, and that there are exceptional music programs at competitive Universities and Colleges where an SAT score below 1300 accompanied by a near perfect GPA is required for admission, but to achieve that level of academic accomplishment while being the Marching band's drum major, Jazz band member after school and making time for composing and rehearsing just does not seem possible. I would really appreciate feedback from people in a similar circumstance who are in, or have finished. the process with solid information from schools on how they feel toward this. Also, if anyone REALLY has insight on information that we often hear about schools being more lenient, if not CONSIDERABLY more lenient, on students academic profile that are applying to the music department that would be very helpful. Keep in mind this is for a composition student who is strong on her primary instrument, but not at the level she would need to necessarily be a performance major. Her "audition" would be based on her composition portfolio and interview more so than her instrumental audition.
Sorry for rambling, but I would really appreciate some feedback...</p>
<p>Drop the Marching band, but not the academics. That’s my recommendation - unless she intends to write band music? (Which is a VERY lucrative field.) On the other hand, don’t load up on AP’s - take a demanding, but not excruciatingly demanding workload. For one thing, some of the best composition departments for her might be at a school for a BA, and not a BM, in which case her grades are going to make a difference. Yes, schools are more lenient when evaluating music students’ GPA’s and scores. But financially you’re better off if her academics are better. For instance at USC - my son received half merit automatically as a National Merit Finalist, but only 5K from Thornton for music merit - despite being a top candidate. He received both academic and music merit at Michigan.He probably would have been admitted to both programs with a lower GPA and scores but he would not have received the academic merit awards. Despite him being an NMF and with high test scores and a good GPA, he did not take as many AP’s as he might have - he made a deliberate choice that he needed time to compose. We were fine with that - even with him taking time off school when he had a musical deadline.</p>
<p>I suppose another way to answer your question would be to know what kind of schools she’s looking at for composition? How hard would they be to get into if she were not applying for music? How far off the norm will she be? And, is she going to want to take academic classes when she’s there? Will she feel as if the other non-music students are her academic peers?</p>
<p>My son was jazz performance and yes some ap classes were sacrificed for practice time. Our experience was similar to spirit managers there is much more academic and need based help available at traditional schools ie not conservatories so grades do matter. My son did not apply to conservatories and we found nearly all schools grades mattered however he did get merit help. It pays to ask as well which we did to find out the mix of resources the schools have at their disposal Good luck</p>
<p>My d is rather adamant about getting a BM over a BA. She also enjoys conducting and was told the leadership skills required of being a drum major at a high school with over 5000 students is a strong bonus on her resume. When she isn’t composing she is playing one of her instruments and recording herself overlaying tracks to create her own little orchestra. After a summer at UNSCA studying composition she decided she would like to ultimately concentrate on film scoring, but I have convinced her to look at an overall composition degree. There are so few schools offering a major in film scoring and she will probably leave that for her graduate studies. Conservatories are more attractive to her than a BA so all of the schools on her long list concentrate on music. I will have her start having dialogues with the schools on the list to see if their aid is exclusively for merit, talent or a mix of both. I know when my older d went to Hartt she was told that their department only offered talent money and their students were excluded from any merit based financial aid.</p>
<p>Be aware that some schools will not “stack” merit awards. If you are offered both academic and music, you may have to take the larger of the 2. Some schools will stack. That is an important question to ask. </p>
<p>I think your daughter may want to review the requirements for a BA in music at schools which have faculty of interest to her. Some are 50% music courses - and you might get to choose courses of more interest to a composer than some of the 75% required courses for a BM in a conservatory… Then, again, some BA’s will require fewer music courses. But, for composition, I would not recommend ruling out a BA before the final decision. I feel composers do well to be exposed to many things.</p>
<p>Do know that for admission to a school of music, the GPA/scores will be for determining eligibility to the general university - but for admission to the composition program it will be the portfolio. And not her leadership skills, or community service hours, nor how many AP’s she takes.</p>
<p>I’m also a junior in highschool who wants to major in composition as well and I had the same question for a while. I decided to drop marching band take a few, but not many AP classes and spend the rest of my time practicing and composing. The big difference is that I did not enjoy my band program and felt it wasn’t benefiting me. Being a drum major can be an extremely rewarding experience and looks fantastic on her resume. If she’s taking a lot of AP classes she may consider switching out. Last year I switched out of an AP class halfway, but I still took the AP test. I only got a 3 but it was a history which is my worst subject. Even if you don’t take the test getting out of some of the harder AP’s will save time. If possible, you may consider taking lessons at a local university and taking a little bit of time out of composition to kind of “work smarter not harder”. When I started taking lessons I sound I was composing less, but my pieces were much more planned out and of a much higher quality. A professor will know what a school is looking for and will help expose her to music that could have a positive influence on her. It makes sense to me if she decided to go for a BA because having a background in literature, art, graphic design and any other film related subject will be very helpful to any composer and will be extremely helpful to a film composer. Just my two cents, best of luck.</p>
<p>With composition as far as I know while you have to show advanced competency on your instrument, the requirements aren’t as high as with a performance student in terms of required playing level. In terms of composition, being in marching band or being a drum major probably won’t do all that much for the person being admitted, especially as they have both composition and other music pursuits there (not saying marching band and/or being a drum major might not be fulfilling, just saying given what we know about the student, it prob won’t buy them all that much as an EC). The only question is going to be exactly what the level of playing required for a composition degree in the program you are talking about, and then assessing where you are. If the student is already playing at a level where they are likely to pass the audition part of the composition program, then it would take a lot less practicing than if on assessment they still have a way to go. If the student is a junior, they have a little over a year until pre screens (if required for composition, in terms of playing ability) or maybe 15 months or so, to be at the right level of playing for a composition audition. The answer again comes down to the level required in the particular program and assessing based on that how much practice is needed and how much time. </p>
<p>Freestanding conservatories don’t care much about academics (NEC for instance) but merit money for even the most talented is often not that helpful ($15K out of $55 for instance).</p>
<p>Some state universities have BM programs that are affordable. SUNY Purchase has a great conservatory that is not expensive. Many state u’s do have instrumental auditions for composers: check if Purchase does, I don’t remember.</p>
<p>My daughter did not apply to any conservatories or colleges that required instrumental auditions for composers, on principle, but also because her main instrument is classical guitar and many schools did not offer an audition for that at the time. There were plenty of schools to apply to, top schools, without instrumental auditions.</p>
<p>Your daughter may be adamant about a BM because she does not want a lot of academics. Would you say that is the case? That is a valid point of view. I have a dancer daughter like that. There are some small LAC’s to look at. Bennington, for instance, while very intellectual, also lets you focus on your interests and work independently.</p>
<p>I don’t think we have much of an idea about your daughter’s composing. She needs to know it is an extremely competitive field for admission to BM programs. Generally (not always) composition is classical, and marching or jazz band is not that helpful. There are programs though where those activities might be helpful: does she want a jazz composition program? If she wants a traditional classical program (which can include some very edgy “new music”), she could just drop those bands at high school. My daughter did that. Then again, if they are important to her emotional and social health, and give her a place in the universe of high school, keep them and adjust post-high school plans accordingly.</p>
<p>I don’t really know-others do- but some larger state universities have big bands and maybe some composition programs would greatly appreciate her experiences and resume.</p>
<p>Does she have a composition teacher? What kinds of things does she write?</p>
<p>A BA without portfolio or audition might very well work for her too (which would mean sending a supplement to the common app w/CD and resume) but it does sound like she really wants a BM. If finances are an issue and she does not qualify for lots of merit or financial aid, and with her interest in band music, I would think a state university BM program might fit the bill. Good luck!</p>
<p>Ah yes–this was the very dilemma that marred my son’s high school career (and has had a pretty strong impact on his brother’s and sister’s experience, too). I think the only good answer is to do the best you can in both areas. Most–though certainly not all–musicians are also really strong students. I would guess a majority of those applying to music programs and conservatories have had to deal with the same issue, which is why the orchestra director at our school can’t find enough musicians to fill the pit orchestra for the musicals–none of those who play well have the time. I don’t think you’re really safe assuming that music students will have chosen to practice and sacrificed their AP courses. At our competitive suburban high school, one is expected to do both and to do both very well. The only way around this dilemma is to home school, which is why about half of the students in my son’s youth orchestra were home schooled. Hugs to you, Pohsmom. I’ve been there and wouldn’t relive that time–especially junior year–for anything!</p>
<p>@dec-
Yep, it is why my s homeschooled. At the pre college program he went to, where large percentages of the students end up going to ivy league level schools, that battle was evident, friends of his were both high level musicians and were doing the high level of AP classes, other EC’s, etc…and literally didn’t sleep…and he said you could tell the kids planning on heading into the academic track, heading off to the top schools rather than music schools, he said their playing fell off by junior and senior year, they just had too much load on the academic side to keep up their playing to the level it had been. There were some kids who did both, but they were very, very rare (IE maintained the highest level of playing as well as the high load of academics). Some of them were able to do it because by the time they hit the end of Sophomore year, their playing was already good enough to get into a top program musically, but my S said many of the kids fell off to where getting into a top program would be difficult if not impossible, because of the academic load. </p>
<p>Apropos to that, if not the OP’s question: my daughter went to the same pre-college as MP’s son and I found it interesting how many of her peers (not her!) applied to and were admitted to HYP/Stanford. It was as if we were in a demographic bubble that reversed everything you hear about how impossible it is to be admitted to those schools. That’s because these very driven, talented kids really did do it all (and, probably as MP says, without sleep.) The kids who went on to music conservatories were generally not these academic superstars because more of their energy was funneled into music than the pre-Ivy crowd. There are some who can handle everything. But most kids need to make a choice.</p>
<p>Funny story, not appropo of anything in particular…one of the kids in the program applied to all the ivies, and only got into Harvard, and everyone was kidding him about it being his safety school…it is very hard to do it all. Mind you, the kids GH and I are talking about play at a very high level, and more than a few of them could get into a top notch conservatory, but she is dead spot on that it is next to impossible to be out on the extreme of the bell curve musically and academically, an it is definitely a tradeoff. I can tell you that many of the kids are at the program with the intent of getting into an Ivy class school because it is a conventional wisdom (that I am pretty certain is true), that coming out of a program like this is a strong hook to stand a kid out on his application, among a sea of 98th percentile SAT’s, X aps and a 4.0 gpa, that the schools actively want high level musical kids for their orchestras and such. </p>
<p>This is definitely something we wrestle with. S is the kind of person who simply cannot burn the candle at both ends. He has to have decent sleep and therefore isn’t one of those kids who is studying/practicing into the wee hours of the night. With him, I’ve tried to help him prioritize…first comes self care, second comes practice and third comes homework. He is such a conscientious person, though, so it is hard for him to let anything go. So, we try to go with practice first then do homework. I also talked him out of doing all AP for his academic classes and to taking the couple of AP’s that are really important to him and letting go of the rest. That has helped. </p>
<p>One thing we did during DS’s junior & senior year was being very selective about which AP courses he took. He graduated HS with 8 or so AP’s plus 3 more college credit courses, BUT with prescreenings, essays, auditions, etc it did get to be a lot! </p>
<p>He is a math & science kid, so he chose to take lots of AP classes in those areas while he slacked off a bit in some of the other areas. In retrospect, it seems to have worked pretty well for him :)</p>
<p>Thank you for all your replies. I think the question went a little sideways. My d is not one of those extraordinarily rare kids that can “do it all”. I agree that the student who can manage an 4.0 with lots of AP’s, excel in music and still function will be viewed as top notch by any school. My question was really geared to the music student who is fully passionate about their music, very talented and well above average in academics but not necessarily ivy material. The student who has to study very hard for their "A"s and is OK getting a “B” every now and then. For THAT student, who will probably do very well on their auditions and is a strong competitor, would someone recommend they push themselves to take an extra hard academic load at the expense of some rehearsing time, or do you have any knowledge from schools that students applying to their School of Music have a slightly less competitive need academically. I know for almost all BFA programs in Theatre/Musical Theatre the audition weighs significantly heavier than their academic record so we recommend our students take the time to maximize their training and experience even if that means they can’t take a the most challenging high school course load. I don’t have the same information for Music Schools and was hoping someone could enlighten me to any experience they had on this subject. I am aware that merit scholarships are based on academic record and that is a whole different conversation. I also know that many Conservatories lean way more to talent than academics but I understand that a highly intelligent applicant is always a bonus for any program. Lastly, I wonder if any of this differs for a BM Composition major rather than a BM Performance. Thanks again for all of the responses.</p>
<p>I think it really depends on the kid. I certainly would not want one of my children to take on an overly challenging (for him/her) academic course load while preparing for college auditions. However, I wouldn’t encourage completely dropping all academic rigor. </p>
<p>I think balance is the key and only you and your student can know what is too much. </p>
<p>We had our son drop his ap classes last year because his gpa took a significant hit. It also affected his self esteem and motivation as well. My son is above average academically but has issues with executive function. He has an easier schedule this year and we’re careful to make sure his top school choices would find it acceptable. We had one school request ap calculus and sciences this year. No way. Not during audition year. I guess my point is if you are worried about being able to handle ap classes, don’t do it. My son is taking one ap class (music theory and he begged me to take it) and doing great. He’s balancing it with being a peer tutor in orchestra so less homework but still learning a lot.</p>
<p>Pohsmom I understand where you are coming from. My daughter is looking at getting a BM in performance but she’s worried about her academics-- mainly class rank. Her school instituted a program where AP’s and college level courses are weighted by adding 10 extra points to the final grade (we are graded by percentage). Because her school doesn’t offer many AP courses or college level ones for that matter she seems to be shut out of many higher level courses that would keep her rank higher. For instance, this year she had in her schedule a college language course and AP US history-- all that her small school really offered in 11th grade that she could fit in the schedule. But in order to take a two year sequence in Music Theory (not AP but designed by a local fantastic teacher) she could not take the language and then her science course knocked out the APUSH. And the Theory class is not Honors because it is locally developed even though it is a demanding course. I think it’s great she will get two full years of rigorous theory in HS but the system is set up ao that she will fall out of the top 10 in rank. She’s afraid this will hurt her with merit and acceptances. There are kids loading up on college Psych, Photography, Sociology, just to get the 10 points per class just to pad their ranking because they can. But daughter has no room in the schedule for such courses, even next year. Her school even has a pretty rigorous Wind Ensemble-- it is a course with written assignments, graded lessons, homework, practice and exams. High level performances. They win competitions. But no honors level so it hurts the ranking. Last year she took Regents Global instead of honors because it didn’t fit. All of the students, regents and honors, took the same regents final. She scored higher then most of the honors on the regents exam, but they get the extra points on overall average for ranking purposes. (We only offer one section of honors, so if there’s a conflict you’re out of luck. But colleges see honors and AP, college courses are offered.) </p>
<p>I totally understand these challenges. The actual purpose of the original post was to see if anyone has any information on how much academic wiggle room they give students applying to certain colleges if they are seeking a BM instead of a BA. Simply put, does admission into the school of music require the same academic statistics or is there a slightly lesser requirement if their audition/portfolio is strong. I know in Musical Theatre it is hugely swayed towards the audition at most of the top schools and still slightly swayed at others. What schools, if any, require you to be admitted academically before auditioning or being considered a candidate would be a question.
I know certain Universities look almost exclusively at the “numbers” while others look more at the student as a whole. I just want to be able to tell my daughter to “breathe…” and not have to worry so much if she isn’t able to get the “A” in a class. She already made the decision, thankfully, to drop an AP class the second week. Good luck with your journey, (we will need it! )</p>