<p>agreed. Many things can be used to make up for a lackluster aspect of an application. That's why its called a holistic approach.</p>
<p>Exactly, agree with Bescraze. </p>
<p>In reference to Poseur's concerns, since this thread is less general and more addressing them anyways:</p>
<p>Based on what everyone has established about holistic approach and how different aspects of an application are considered, it sounds like the essays will be the arbiter of your fate. Considering your writing abilities, as indicated by most of your posts on this forum, are really good, I think you could have a bit more confidence about your chances for success.</p>
<p>I know one kid who did almost nothing except a sport, possibly a few clubs (no leadership), and community service who got in to cornell due to a 2200 SAT and full SAT II's... He's asian too.</p>
<p>I expect you can aim for Cornell, and the schools that are around the ivy range.</p>
<p>I have known, through my son, young men that have had no real EC's besides a sport or playing in the band, or maybe just the chess club (I'm not counting forced volunteer work some public/private schools insist on that the colleges know about) that got into decent schools with good grades and recs. Maybe when they have to narrow it down, as with Ivies, unusual ECs matter, because everyone has good grades and recs.
A neighbor who was a professor at Bates told me EC's are the most unreliable way to gauge how someone will inpact your college. If you go on the assumption that a student will continue his leadership in clubs, starting new ones or continuing old ones, you might be disappointed, because many students are so relieved to be away from that pressure, they just study and party and try to just be themselves. Knowing what was "real" and what was manufactured by a college prep book or GC takes experience and luck.
He also said that they are the most lied about area in the application and sometimes unfair. If a student is rich and can do volunteer work in China or travel, why should his EC be better than someone who can't do that? If one student can get transportation to clubs/work and another is homebound or had to take public transportation, can you look at them equally? It's also obivious if a student's parent is a doctor or lawyer for example and they get a great job at the hospital or court house, some nepotism is evident. It doesn't mean the work isn't genuine, but you can't look at it equally. Most colleges want students who will succeed and give back, and good grades and a desire to learn, good work ethic is always most important. I tend to agree with him, but you can't predict what each college will look at, so many admissions counselors have their own agenda and you will always have many "how did this happen" questions when the results go out.</p>
<p>what is urm?</p>
<p>URM, I believe, is Under Represented Minority, i.e. black, Hispanic, Native American, etc.</p>
<p>There was a kid in my high school (now goes to Harvard), who completed 17 APs, and got 5's on each. He got a perfect 4.0 UW gpa in high school. His weighted wasn't a 5.0 because PE isn't honors. He got a 1570 the first time he took the SAT, so he took it again to get a perfect. As far as I know he had no/few ECs.</p>
<p>Dang...</p>
<p>Bump.</p>
<p>A valedictorian from my school a few years ago did not do any clubs, had decent SAT's. Got into Yale.</p>
<p>I know someone else who was maybe top 20 in the class, superscored 2400. Got into Dartmouth.</p>
<p>guys, am I at a disadvantage if my school's clubs only give leadership positions in the student council? (other clubs are led by the supervisors to my knowledge?)</p>
<p>also, is junior year too late to get involved? my reasons for this are:
1. 3 year high school so freshman year was at a junior high where the ECs were a joke.
2. my plans didn't include US universities only Canadian ones in sophomore year, where ECs don't matter. So I saw no benefit in getting involved wih my school, I might as well just spend the time studying. but my plans have changed...</p>
<p>my dream school at the moment is Wharton @ Penn(but it keeps changing:P).
I'm Canadian international btw
assuming I get 30+ on the ACTs and a 3.8/3.9 GPA with full IB, am I a lost cause, because of my late start?</p>
<hr>
<p>
[QUOTE]
URM, I believe, is Under Represented Minority, i.e. black, Hispanic, Native American, etc.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>there is no "etc." those are the only races :p</p>
<p>^ Have your GC explain the leadership issue. Get involved best as you can as a junior, but know that colleges will dock you for it--you're "supposed" to do stuff because you want to, not for college.</p>
<p>Do you need FA? Also, 32+ on ACT would be the most competitive.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
^ Have your GC explain the leadership issue. Get involved best as you can as a junior, but know that colleges will dock you for it--you're "supposed" to do stuff because you want to, not for college.</p>
<p>Do you need FA? Also, 32+ on ACT would be the most competitive.
[/QUOTE]
I did stuff outside of school just not in school(by stuff I mean tennis, guitar, started/organized/ played guitar and vocals in a band, led religious discussions with kids). When I think about it, I did do one thing in grade 9 which was the mathletes where we won regionals and went to provincials but lost. in grade 10 i was invited by the principal after he read won of my essays to come to a principal's student advisory council but i only went once :(.
No I do not need FA</p>
<p>My children did a lot of things outside of school vs in because of transportation issues. A few clubs they liked were mainly filled with students that walked to school and home or their parents job after school since it was in a big city. (One or two had sibling with a car.) Their GC will note that there was only 1 day they could do an after-school club and it was one they enjoyed (Model UN) The Literary Magazine became a hassle and sometimes I would arrange transportation and the club would be canceled. Newspaper for one D was worked out because she would go to evening events and then do work at home on the computer.
I know they say that filling your app with clubs Junior year on is suspicious but for some, it took them a while to get involved and comfortable. I think, especially with some competitive high schools, all activities probably are somewhat staged....how do you really tell if a student was pushed and nagged into doing clubs/activities because it looked good? I knew many professionals at a hospital I worked at that directed their children from grade school. One teen told me he only liked one thing he did, he was forced to do 2 sports at his private school, he was pushed to try to be president of another (which he did for 2 years) and did a ton of community service at the hospital (hours were exagerated though) I think through an essay, maybe an adcom can see through what's real or not, but I would hope that it is put in perspective. No one wants a lazy, apathetic student, but a pretend one isn't much better.</p>
<p>lol my problem is opposite of those kids at you hospital XD My parents have no idea how the educational system works so I just breezed by school with only good grades, only now am I mature enough to care and realize I made a huge mistake -_- but I'll try my hardest and see where it gets me</p>
<p>bbump................</p>
<p>I didn't read the entire thread... but I have a super-smart and not-involved friend headed to Dartmouth next year. </p>
<p>4.0 GPA in really hard classes, plus small participation in math club and sign language club.</p>
<p>mehh. im class of 2008 with a 2350/800/800/790 and a 4.0//4.86 GPA. really mediocre ECs. only awards were crappy school ones. </p>
<p>got into all the UCs, USC, penn state. rejected from every other private (harvard, JHU, stanford, caltech). waitlisted at NW.</p>
<p>my common app sucked. i think if you have similar stats you can at least get into NW and JHU with good essays (mine were poot). i shoulda applied to duke and upenn.</p>
<p>i would have liked to go to a really good private school. i knew a lot about the college admissions process coming into high school, but after i got an 800 on bio (no one at our school has gotten it if i remember correctly), i slacked and thought my intelligence would carry me into a good school.</p>
<p>and it did. going to ucla with a regent's scholarship. not a bad school, will have tons of fun. tuition is free with regents and national merit crap.</p>
<p>if i didnt get regents i would be really ****ed, though. getting into the UCs is like 2000 SAT score status =(.</p>
<p>^^^In your case what probably did you in were the essays. For someone with your stats poor essays convey a sense of little interest in that particular school.</p>
<p>I had pretty good stats, 4.0 GPA and 34 on the ACTs, with fairly lame EC's. I was captain of my varsity swim team and club team, and was a fairly competitive swimmer and was recruited to some interested schools...but otherwise, I did practically nothing. I was the co-president of one 10-person, totally lame club, and had some super-lame school awards, but NOTHING else. I got into all of my schools, Dartmouth, Middlebury, and the honors/scholars programs at Bowdoin, BC, Colgate, W&M, and some other places. I had a truly awesome essay, though. @Poseur: I don't necessarily think schools hate super-bright kids who do nothing, it's that they hate kids whose lives are entirely invested in academics, and have no personality. Show your real self through your essay, and you should be good.</p>
<p>mm yea but im an average writer anyways</p>
<p>plus interest essays are such bs. i didnt have any particular choice for college. i just applied to schools i thought/knew were good. i suppose i shoulda at least tried to make it seem like i was super excited to go to there.</p>
<p>@wave</p>
<p>i hope they dont think that about super stats kids. i had ridiculous amounts of free time during high school. my school was a joke for academics. i dont think i ever studied more than an hour for a test. never studied much for finals either.</p>
<p>granted, they might think im lazy because i didnt do many ECs, but thats not really true. i am typically lazy, but during high school i was blissfully unaware of what it really took to get into top colleges because of the people i hung around. most of my friends were average B/C students who didnt do any ECs, and i suppose it rubbed off on me. </p>
<p>i dont blame the colleges for rejecting me, but to think im a nerd is just ew.</p>