<p>It’s rare nowadays that students get a free ride, least of all paid by the taxpayer. Taxpayer aid can be miniscule in relationship to the total cost of college so the chances of someone getting the sleepaway experience on the public’s dime are probably pretty much nil. If a family thinks it is worth it to fill the gap by loans or whatever it take, that’s up to them.</p>
<p>Right… which is why students commute to save money… which is why “sleep away” is a luxury…</p>
<p>And i say it’s not a luxury if there is no alternative!</p>
<p>And that’s why I asked above- is there really no alternative? Do you really not have a college within commuting distance?</p>
<p>*It’s rare nowadays that students get a free ride, least of all paid by the taxpayer. Taxpayer aid can be miniscule in relationship to the total cost of college so the chances of someone getting the sleepaway experience on the public’s dime are probably pretty much nil. If a family thinks it is worth it to fill the gap by loans or whatever it take, that’s up to them.
*</p>
<p>So, then, what was your argument? </p>
<p>Did you possibly think anyone was criticizing those who use their own money, loans, scholarships, etc, to pay for room and board???</p>
<p>Perhaps you didn’t realize that there have been kids posting who are upset that their public U didn’t give them enough need-based aid (tax payer based) to cover their R&B.</p>
<p>And i say it’s not a luxury if there is no alternative!</p>
<p>And, we’ve said that those people need help.</p>
<p>We were in the same position last year. Our EFC was $12k. My son applied to 10 schools and was accepted in 5. He was accepted to our state college and 4 private schools. In spite of the EFC, 2 of the schools expected us to come up with $40k. At the end the private school he attended gave him enough aid to make up to the $12k EFC. In spite of the EFC we would also have had to pay more ($22k) had he attended our state school.</p>
<p>Your instate school is 34k??? What public school is that??</p>
<p>Whoops nevermind. Misread!!</p>
<p>Most instate publics won’t give you a dime of need-based aid (free money) once you’re beyond Pell and/or state aid benchmarks. Since many states don’t have “state aid,” once you’re beyond Pell.</p>
<p>Imagine the EFC 6000 family learning that to attend their state’s flagship ($25k), they have to come up with the whole amount minus a student loan. It’s shocking. That’s why so many in that predicament end up commuting to their local CC or state U. </p>
<p>No wonder so many families end up with Plus Loans and the debt load is an issue. Their child may not have applied to any local schools, so they feel compelled to sign. It can be very difficult, if not impossible, for these parents to tell their “hard working child with strong stats,” that he must now start at a CC after spending his Fall and Winter filling out apps and writing essays.</p>
<p>on the “sleep away” topic:</p>
<p>When I went to college a few (OK, around 25 years) ago it was not unique to go away to college. Maybe it’s because I was raised in upper-middle class suburbia, but if I recall I think over 90% of the students I graudated with “went away” to college. At least in “my world” its not a new phenomenon. In fact, my dad also moved away from home to go to college…and my dad’s dad and his uncle and that would have been in around the 1940s. </p>
<p>I definitely don’t expect tax payers to pick up the bill to pay for that option for my son, but I also don’t view it as a luxury. College is about SO MUCH MORE than you ‘learn’ in a classroom. I was a good student at an excellent high school and when I worked toward my liberal arts degree, I can’t recall learning much in my classes. I can remember hating one class enough that after the first 2 sessions I decided to study on my own and just go in on exam days…that class I got an ‘A’ in. But I did learn how to get along with my roommates or what to do when I didn’t, I learned to make sure I got up and went to class if I needed to and get my work done or the consequences if I didn’t, I learned what to do after your roommate drinks FAR too much, I learned what to do after a car accident, I learned how to handle when your roommate moves out in the middle of your joint lease, I learned how to make sure my bills got paid, I learned that sometimes if you don’t work…you don’t eat…college taught me so much more about life and becoming an adult than I learned just from classes. Sure kids can stay at home and commute to their local CCs but I know if my son were at home there’d always be a meal waiting for him, he wouldn’t have to learn to do his laundry, he wouldn’t have to worry about keeping the utilities on, if he overslept - I’d be making sure he got up, and I’d be harassing him about getting his homework done. By going away to school, he gains independence, he learns how to take care of himself…I don’t think that’s a luxury, I think it is an essential part of why I’m sending my son to college. </p>
<p>But that said, I don’t expect someone else to pay for that, I’ll borrow the money if I have to, but learning the ‘life skills’ he will need in adulthood is an experience my son needs at this stage in his life</p>
<p>jrc, I should probably clarify. </p>
<p>I do think living on campus is important. I went to a residential college so it’s especially important. However, it’s not a necessity. It’s wonderful if you can swing it, but the important part is the tuition and fees. The “luxury” means it’s not a necessity. It is important, but not necessary. </p>
<p>And yes, it’s a class issue. My working class (lower-middle) area does not go away to school the majority of the time. You either go to U of M (which meets aid for instate students so they can afford to go away) or you go to a directional within commuting distance.</p>
<p>Further to the “sleep away” topic:</p>
<p>I think economic realities and expectations for the American middle class have been changing rapidly in recent years. It’s not surprising that many people are having a hard time adjusting, and I feel sympathy toward all parties who seem to be angry with each other on this and other threads.</p>
<p>Getting to the point, on moving to the US from Canada due to a job transfer 10 years ago, one of the many cultural differences we noticed between the two countries were the expectations around university attendance. It was abundantly clear that going away to college - and commonly out of state, even - was the expected norm for middle class Americans. This was very different to the Canadian context familiar to us, in which the typical middle class Canadian would be a “commuter student” in American lingo. In Canada, only rural dwellers (a much smaller percentage of the Canadian than US population) would traditionally contemplate “sleep away” school.</p>
<p>Now here we are in 2012, “sleep away” school has rapidly become less and less affordable for middle class Americans, and some of us are yelling “Suck it up! Where did you get that over-entitled thinking?” at others who are upset that they can’t afford the traditional four-year college sleep-away experience. Have a heart, people. It was so obvious to us as immigrants that middle-class Americans have regarded the four-year sleep-away as the standard college experience for decades. Apparently that expectation has to change. But it’s very understandable to me that the adjustment is shocking to the unwary.</p>
<p>Let me pose a question:
Do poor students (EFC less than 3k) deserve to have the sleep-away experience at a full-needs met college?</p>
<p>The nearest college to us is about 34 miles away. </p>
<p>70 miles/day = ~ 3.2 gallons = ~$12/day = $60/week = ~1,020/semester</p>
<p>parking = ~$225/year = $950 for 4 years (accounting for increases over 4 years)
Barely reliable car = ~$4,000
Repairs over 4 years = ~$1,200 (if you’re really lucky)
Insurance for 4 years = ~$800
Plates for 4 years = ~$150</p>
<p>TOTAL car costs = $7,100</p>
<p>Car cost per year = $1,775
Gas per year = $2,040</p>
<p>Commuting costs per year = ~ $3,815
Cheapest dorm room for 2012/2013 (triple, no AC) - $3,530</p>
<p>So it’s pretty break even, although probably more expensive and more hassle to commute.</p>
<p>Let me pose a question:
Do poor students (EFC less than 3k) deserve to have the sleep-away experience at a full-needs met college?</p>
<p>That really doesn’t apply. Schools that are “full need met” are using their OWN money…not tax payer money.</p>
<p>As in Pinot’s situation, if the child is needy, then gov’t money should be available since no school (CC or univ) is nearby.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, this is true but also not true. While they may be not for profit, there are plenty of people on the university payroll in the top 1%. And, no matter what, when an organization is tax exempt, this is costing the taxpayers money… </p>
<p>So, they are sort of using thier own money, but they are benifitting from us allowing them to call it their own money.</p>
<p>I think we have simply reached a point beyond which colleges are losing the enormous good will they have traditionally enjoyed. They have taken advantage of the taxpayers’ good will and have raised tuition to the point where it is no longer affordable to the average or even above-average incomed family. People have caught on.</p>
<p>We will see how much longer this can continue. I suspect we are nearing a tipping point.</p>
<p>So, while I agree that middle class students are at a disadvantage financially, I don’t think this has anything to do with impoverished students, but everything to do with the bloated salaries of administrators and the rising costs, out of proportion to the rate of income increases and inflation. Nothing, not even healthcare, has become so expensive so quickly, and that’s saying something.</p>
<p>Re: Sleep-away college experience.</p>
<p>I actually want my son to have sleep-away experience (not tax-payer paid), even though state flagship is only 25-30 minutes away from our house. My son on the other hand is not sure if he wants to do that. He is afraid he will miss his dog (I am afraid I will miss my son taking care of the dog). He and I talked and he asked me if I regret that I did not have a sleep away experience in college. My answer was that I was responsible for my college cost that were not covered by grants and because I was living at my parents’ house for free it did not even occur to me to think I was missing on something. </p>
<p>My son’s question reminded me my question to my dad many years ago. He was describing that as a young boy he had cake and candy once a year (for his birthday). I asked him if he got to pick his cake. He got angry and told me that in his day and age you got what you got and was happy that you got something at all.</p>
<p>Times definitely have changed. I think today’s kids expectations are much higher than before.</p>
<p>Interesting that you should bring up healthcare … that is actually a large part of the reason why state schools have gotten more expensive. Not only do public schools often provide much richer benefits with lower (or no) cost share than private industry … but they also have the legacy costs of pensions, health care in retirement (often with no cost share).</p>
<p>that is interesting Kelsmom, and it would make a lot of sense as to rising costs of publics, that and the fact that states continue to cut thier share of tax based contributions as healthcare and pendion costs eat up more of the budget elsewhere every day.</p>
<p>Interesting how the one industry is so pernicious when combined with an aging population and how many costs keep being put off onto the younger generation, even when it looks like it is a cost for something else.</p>
<p>Do private universities provide these same benefits?</p>
<p>Poetgirl,</p>
<p>I am not expert in what how private colleges pay their employees, but I assume that just like in any industry they pay the competitive wages to compete for the best employees.</p>
<p>If a private company cannot provide Cadillac benefits, they provide better (or as you put it bloated) wages. Nevertheless even substandard health care plans are very expensive to provide.</p>
<p>The only reason why employees are being paid high wages is because market demands it. If people stop paying the ridiculously high tuition, then the colleges will have to cut costs. This will including laying off expensive employees and hiring cheaper ones. The workers will be more amenable to lower wages because it will be either lower wages or unemployment.</p>
<p>While external economic factors are partially to blame for rising tuition costs, it is really a perfect storm of many factors: students’ and the parents’ belief that the high tuition costs are warranted and fairly easy availability of student loans (both government and private) - to name a few. </p>
<p>In the end, it is everyone’s fault. For years people demanded accessibility of college education for all. Here is the end result.</p>