Sucks to be middle class...

Paying for College
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<p>@Diana I totally feel for you. I’m in a similar situation. The only difference is that I’m a junior and I’m not planning on UCs. I literally cannot afford a UC without incurring massive amounts of debt. Are you sure you don’t want to take a gap year? You could work to earn some money and reapply to lots of schools that would offer you full tuition, perhaps even full rides with your stats. </p>

<p>M2KC you have been such a lifeline throughout this process. I always smile when I see your posts. Thanks so much for all the time and effort you put into this site.</p>

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<p>Ok… that really ignores the point of what I said, but whatever. It seems that you’re going to ignore everything but what you absolutely want to hear.</p>

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<p>Okay time to throw my 2 cents in. The real problem here, I think, is that the cost of going to college, be in private or state, has gotten out of hand with no end in sight. And that hurts everyone no matter what socioeconomic background you come from!</p>

<p>Public systems are creeping up as tax income (read- subsidies) to the states has stalled or dwindled and privates have skyrocketed way beyond what most people can even imagine paying. I remember when privates were hitting $25,000 a year (a thought that was unimaginable–$100,000 for college!). Now $25,000 a year looks cheap! The whole industry is way inflated in comparison to the rest of the economy and there has to be some way of putting the breaks on or we are going to see more defaulting on student loans, etc. It’s a horrible bubble waiting to burst. The answer? I just do not know.</p>

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<p>Not really. That’s still higher than the COA at my public, instate U. It’s only that high if you’re going to privates or out of state schools (some top in-state publics, too). For most students, that still looks very, very high.</p>

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<p>Yes, costs continue to outpace income in a lot of places. Hawaii is one of those places, with one of the highest costs of living (housing & food). There are a LOT of expensive places in the US–HI, CA, Alaska, DC, NJ, to name just a few.</p>

<p>I also have no idea where this will end, but it is very tough for MANY, MANY people that are not the 1% uber-rich. The middle class does get squeezed, as does the poor and even those higher up the scale. Education costs and health costs have outpaced incomes and inflation for many years now, with no end in sight that I’m aware of.</p>

<p>Many kids take Us off the table because they are unaffordable and examine remaining options or other possibilities.</p>

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<p>In my state, tuition + r&b comes to around $20,000 at the state college! But yes, when compared to what privates cost now, $25,000 does look cheap. We were lucky that my d is able to attend a meets-need LAC and it’s “only” costing us about $5000 more than the state college. We felt it was worth it, but I do understand that many may not. But the point of my post was that we should be angry that the cost of education for EVERYONE has gotten out of hand</p>

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<p>@romanigypsyeyes I have read many of your posts over the past few months while browsing CC and have come to have a lot of respect for you. I think the problem is that the CA public school system is very different from the majority of publics throughout the country.</p>

<p>Let’s take a family making 82k. CA has one of the highest tax rates in the country. This family is bringing home 55kish after taxes. A house in California is 2-3 times the cost of a house in say, Michigan. I know that for my small, 3 bedroom house we pay 2500 a month (in rent, we can’t afford to own). Now, due to CA budget cuts, public transportation is not very affordable either. It cost me $400/year to get a bus pass for most of my childhood. Multiply that by a 2-3 kids and you’re looking at a lot in transportation. A family like this is not a high income family. These kids are shopping at thrift stores, working part time jobs, and using old cell phones. It IS NOT a family with an EFC of 30k. As OP stated, her EFC is 12k. </p>

<p>Then comes college. I realize that COA in your state is less than 25k. In California, it is not. Currently, the COA at UC Berkeley is about 32,000. Many students across the country can use their state flagship as a financial safety. Californians cannot. Sadly, many CA students, such as the OP, do not realize this until it is too late. </p>

<p>California also does not offer full rides for merit. There are smallish scholarships at the lower UCs for great stats, but that still does not make them affordable. I frequently see top students with full rides to rutgers, etc. That just doesn’t happen in California. </p>

<p>“Not really. That’s still higher than the COA at my public, instate U. It’s only that high if you’re going to privates or out of state schools (some top in-state publics, too). For most students, that still looks very, very high.”</p>

<p>Exactly!! 25-30k is very, very high. That is the cost of a CA public school for anyone who makes over 80k. It doesn’t matter if there are 2 kids in college, if you make 82k as a family and you have 2 kids in UCs, your family would pay/take on debt of over 2/3s of your income. That is not possible.</p>

<p>The scenario above is the way it is in CA. There is no “financial safety” other than merit aid, which is what OP should have looked harder for. It’s too bad this isn’t further emphasized in the “real world.” (Of course it is on CC, thankfully).</p>

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<p>To the original poster-I understand completely. While the bottom 50% pays nearly no taxes yet reaps all the benefits the system has to offer, the middle and upper classes are paying for welfare, government housing, food stamps, and Medicaid. And yes, schools do give more grant money to poor kids so stop saying that’s a myth. In fact, may colleges say that they use grants to make up the difference between what families can afford and what the cost of colleges are. It pays to be poor in this country.</p>

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<p>Thanks, leah. </p>

<p>I understand that CA is expensive. I lived there. I get it.
I also know that costs are completely out of control.</p>

<p>However, I hate the myth that poor kids get a free ride. After years on here, and in the real world, it gets to you. I also hate the myth that it’s top schools or nothing. Most kids commute and the like.</p>

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<p>You’re telling me that a CC costs $25-30k a year? I don’t think so. The reality is that most people commute or go to CCs- no matter WHAT the income bracket. I’m sure the OP can afford a cc, which is where many low-income kids go. Or she takes a gap year, saves up money, and applies to schools where she gets significant MERIT scholarships. Like many low-incomes do. </p>

<p>Btw- my public, instate U is $24500/year COA. Not that much cheaper than many UCs. I meant to write “tuition” up there rather than COA. That was my fault. I apologize.</p>

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<p>I’ll even flip the perspective again. We live in the bay area and my son could possibly get into Cal. So you who cry go to the local school lets break down cost including living at home. $14k tuition about $250 a month or $3000 a year for BART and local bus service public transportation, Books $1k-2k, random food and other expenses $1k-3k. So even living at home I would guess a minimum of $18k-20k going to our local flagship staying at home. This would include a fantastic 1.5-2 hour ride each way everyday. Our great alternative Alabama possible full tuition and room and board in the $12k-15k range and living on campus with no commute just a brisk walk. </p>

<p>Plus I’m not even going to get into how much we pay in taxes, but if I broke down property tax and sales tax as a percentage less money spent. I’m very sure it gets close to the 35-40% barrier. I still see no discount in this education. I mean we do subsidize it. But 10 years ago the same tuition and bus fare would have been below $10k!</p>

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<p>A UC costs 30k+ a year (and rising fast). CC’s are nowhere near that, of course. I just looked up my local CC- it costs around $7,000 in tuition + books, etc. I think it comes out to around 10k with activity fees, parking pass (if needed of course), books, etc. Not expensive, but also not cheap.</p>

<p>I get what you mean about poor kids getting a free ride. I think that myth perpetuates from full-need schools, where that actually is the case. i.e. at Harvard a kid with an EFC of 0 will walk away with no debt, while I would certainly walk away with some debt. The frustration is that while we would both graduate into the same field, I would be weighed down by debt because of my parents’ income, and this other student would not.</p>

<p>HOWEVER, in 99% of cases in the country, I agree that students are not getting a free ride. I think the huge frustration in CA is the cutoff of 80k. It just does not make sense. For kids who want to have 4 years to do research, be involved in ECs, be at a 4 year, etc. it’s just not possible anymore. Yes a CSU is cheaper, but they are not research universities. Does everyone inherently deserve an education at a 4 year (research if applicable) university? No. Is it sad to see a kid who didn’t understand the process, and is now being asked to pay over half of her parents’ net income, have to turn down UCB after four years of hard work? Certainly. The answer here is, of course, to have students start at CCs. I find it sad that families are not more educated about the process. The absolute only reason that I will be going to a four year is because I, personally, found CC and used it to find colleges where I will be offered a full ride, or at least free tuition. I get you on the CC thing-over half of my school’s graduating class goes to CCs. Not because of lack of admission, but because of money. </p>

<p>I do think we need to give kids who are heartbroken over turning down Cal, UCLA, etc. a break. Getting there was really difficult, and I can understand that it is painful.</p>

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<p>romani - my brother in law is getting a free ride at berkeley. My FIL works at a dry cleaner. they are not a URM. He got a literal full ride. Zero debt. He went to a HS in a bad neighborhood in SF. I know they exist. His two older brothers got things very close to full rides.</p>

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<p>I agree with that. I have no problem trying to help people get through something. However, when they place their woes on other people, that’s when I have an issue. As do many others. That’s where the OP rubs me the wrong way. I had no problem with her being angry over the process. But when she brought in “poor people”, that’s where I drew the line. </p>

<p>I hope that makes sense. I hope something works out for the OP. I’m signing off from this thread (hopefully) :).</p>

<p>san- I NEVER denied that full rides exist. I’m on a very close one myself (merit mostly). However, the MAJORITY of poor kids do NOT get a full ride.</p>

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<p>I remember when privates were hitting $25,000 a year (a thought that was unimaginable–$100,000 for college!)</p>

<p>Right. When these college kids were babies, financial planners were telling parents that they needed to have about $20-25k per year for privates and about $10k for publics. </p>

<p>And, when I went to college in the 70’s, CSUs were about $60 a semester! lol …and UCs were around $110 per quarter. I can’t remember the exact prices because prices did change a bit from year to year. </p>

<p>The funny thing is that while privates seemed high at the time, they really weren’t. It’s just that the publics were so low. A private school’s tuition was about $100 a credit. So a year’s tuition would be about $3,000. I know that my brother’s cost at USC for frosh year was less than $5k. Even then, he felt it was too high and transferred to a public the next year. </p>

<p>Even then, though, many people commuted because families just couldn’t pay (or justify) the $1000+ it would cost for R&B.</p>

<p>*I get what you mean about poor kids getting a free ride. I think that myth perpetuates from full-need schools, where that actually is the case. i.e. at Harvard *</p>

<p>True. </p>

<p>And frankly, those few full ride schools tend to give the wrong impression to many that most privates give lots of aid…yet they don’t.</p>

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<p>^ Tuition is $444.50 (this year) per credit hour here (and yes, we pay by credit hour). Our room and board costs are comparatively minimal- it’s all in the tuition <em>shakes head</em>. Ridiculous. And we get absolutely no state aid.</p>

<p>Something will give. Eventually. Just not any time soon.</p>

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I don’t really expect anyone to grasp this, but if someone said they owned several fishing boats with which they made a major part of their living, it would sound pretty silly telling them they should sell their boats to pay for kids college.</p>

<p>Well, it would sound silly to me anyways.</p>

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<p>lol, it costs $46 for each credit hour at my local CC. Kids were angry (it’s been raised $10 in the last year) so they tried to remedy it by naming it XXX XXX College (it’s a beautiful fancy name) instead of X County CC. </p>

<p>Hasn’t worked so far. I expect they’ll keep trying.</p>

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<p>$88 for our CC. Plus a few other fees. I think it works out to about $1300/semester (just fees + tuition).</p>

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<p>Sylvan…Are you saying that if you only had your H’s income and your income that your EFC would be low for one child in college? Do you know what your EFC would be based on your income and your spouse’s earned income? Aren’t you both professionals?</p>

<p>I could also claim that a “major part” of our income is from rentals. But that doesn’t mean that earned income is chump change. </p>

<p>And, if the rentals have equity, that equity can be borrowed against if necessary. If they don’t have any equity, then at least they don’t have a value that increases EFC.</p>

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<p>Instead of whining about what a few extraordinarily lucky poor students get, why aren’t you advocating that college be made affordable for all, by an overall increase in state funding to the University of California, California State University and California Community College systems?</p>

<p>Yes, that means higher taxes. Welcome to reality: There’s no such thing as a free lunch.</p>