Sucks to be middle class...

Paying for College
81

<p>

</p>

<p>Horse****.</p>

<p>Have you ever heard of sales taxes, gas taxes, property taxes, payroll taxes, vehicle taxes, excise taxes, etc. etc. etc.?</p>

<p>More than 25 percent of California state government revenue comes from sales taxes - every time a low-income person buys clothes from Wal-Mart or fills their tank at the gas station, they’re paying a state tax, plus a local-option tax in most places that goes to county and city governments.</p>

<p>The idea that poor people don’t pay taxes in a reasonable proportion to their income is a pernicious myth designed to avoid the real truth: rich people don’t pay a reasonable proportion of their income.</p>

<p>From the 1970s to the late 2000s, inflation-adjusted income growth:</p>

<p>Top 1 percent of Americans: 275 percent.
Middle-class Americans: Less than 40 percent.
Poorest Americans: 18 percent.</p>

<p>Seems pretty clear to me who should pay their fair share. (Source: Congressional Budget Office. <a href=“http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485[/url]”>http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=12485&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

82

<p>like above posts say: If your EFC is 30k a year then your not in “middle class”. Your most likely in Upper-middle class. When I read what you posted I was pretty heated, but ill be nice. Let me ask you this: Do you wish that you were low income and have to watch your mom work 50 hours a week, a dad whose not there, have to go to community college, work 20-30 hours a week, have to ALSO take out student loans? Or would you rather be in an uppermiddle class where you live in a nice home, nice cars, nice education, not have to work, not have to go to community college, not have to watch your family struggle to put food on the table, barely meeting familial needs to simply survey. I mean if I were you I would be very appreciated. Your lucky you even get to college.</p>

<p>There are kids who live in foster homes who never had their own parents love them, never had anything to call theirs. They never had access to education, or education being a family value.</p>

<p>In fact I had a homeless friend of mine stay with me for about 6 months. he had NOTHING, except for maybe 3 shirts and 3 pants. But the clothes that he had, he took better care of them than ive seen anyone take care of there stuff. everyday he folded them neatly and put it in his backpack, because thats literally all he had. he had no father, his mother ditched him in a foster home, poor education, had no access to a job because he had no money to even get his social security card (which i later gave him money for). </p>

<p>So ask yourself this: Would you want to be in a middle class and take a little more in loans, or would you like to be him and sleep on the street some nights? People like him deserve financial aid not you or even me. REMEMBER COLLEGE IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT ITS A CHOICE. If you REALLY have an issue with loans you dont HAVE to go to college. Please show some appreciation of your situation and consideration for others’ situations. Please be grateful that your even get to go to college. Anyway i’m sorry if I seemed a little harsh im a sociology major as you might have been able to tell. </p>

<p>On a lighter side I hope your loans do not dismiss your ability to go to college. Here is a website that might be able to help you: [College</a> Financial Aid | Scholarships, Grants, Loans – Financial Aid Finder ? Leaders in College Financial Aid & Scholarship Information](<a href=“http://www.financialaidfinder.com/]College”>http://www.financialaidfinder.com/)</p>

83

<p>Drem…</p>

<p>The OP’s EFC is NOT $30k. It’s about $12k.</p>

84

<p>AlwaysLeah, thanks so much. You have captured the California situation to perfection and the plight of middle class kids. The UC-Holy Grail to which our children aspired for years–everything was about eating, breathing, and sleeping the A-G requirements, high GPAs, and crazy ACTs/SATs–and finally achieved, goes up in smoke. How it all went so wrong for affording a “public” education when our children did everything so right is simply inscrutable and devastating. My blood pressure has been boiling for weeks now.</p>

85

<p>

The rentals will be borrowed against, although no one here seems to think that’s a good idea. H works, I have health issues and only work part time. Last year I made $5K. With no rental income or property assets our EFC would be similar to op’s. </p>

<p>What percentage would rental income have to be to qualify as “major part” in your mind?</p>

86

<p>

</p>

<p>The beginning of the end is easily traceable to 1978, when Proposition 13 limited property taxes to no more than 1% of assessed value each year.</p>

<p>That cut the heart out of the tax base for counties, cities and school districts… which required that the funding shortfall in those governmental areas be made up for by the state government, being even more reliant on sales and income taxes.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, we passed Proposition 98, which requires that about 40 percent of the entire state budget be spent on K-12 public education. 60 percent is left over for everything else. Enter the massive expansion of the state’s prison-industrial complex, combined with prison guards who make $100,000 per year… and you have a recipe for utter financial disaster.</p>

<p>Universities have been slashed, half the state park system is being closed down, people are screaming bloody murder… and nobody wants to raise taxes a dime. Fun times.</p>

87

<p>Sylvan, I had to smile, a wry smile, when I read your post. An old friend of mine makes his living renting out apartments in buildings that he bought. Those buildings generate most of the family income, define his job (managing them) and are his honey pot for retirement. That is ALL the family owns of any value. Some years ago, when real estate price soared, the apartments were considered worth a heck of a lot of money. </p>

<p>My friend’s son was accepted to Harvard. The young man is/was a brilliant student, the type making up the crown jewels of any school. Harvard probably has the most generous financial aid polices. The income from those apartments building were well under what Harvard consider for financial aid. But the family got zilch, zero, zip. The university told my friend exactly what you say is a ludicrous suggestion with the fishing boats–sell a building. And they refused to budge. A like family with a retirement plan with a present value exceeding that of the buildings and far more income would get quite a bit of financial aid from Harvard and any school that meets most need. The young man had applied to a number of colleges, and every single one of them took the same stance. He did get money offers from schools in the merit area, but in terms of financial aid, not a cent.</p>

<p>So ludicrous as it may sound, when you own an asset that generates income, it can be assessed against your aid, and you are expected to sell or borrow against it.</p>

<p>Ironically, with my friend, 10 years later, he did get aid for his second child in college. The real estate market had busted, and he borrowed against the buildings putting money into qualified plans and other places that colleges don’t include in their need valuations.</p>

88

<p>It is expensive in the DC suburbs too, and MD offers very little aid. Lots of kids from families like yours (including Happykid) start at their local CC.</p>

89

<p>I agree with polarscribe. What is up with the conservatives’ victim complex?</p>

90

<p>OP, there are kids getting free rides, yes. There are some getting free rides+. THere are kids getting choices as to which free rides to pick. There are kids, one at my son’s school, right now that I personally know, who is agonizing (do we feel the pain?) between Harvard and Princeton, after narrowing it down from a bunch of other choices, including some free ride+s. Some people also won the Mega lottery.</p>

<p>Most of the kids who are graduating from my son’s high school, are trying to find the college they like best that they can afford. Yes, there are some scholarships and financial aid packages, quite a few, as a matter of fact, but most of the kids and their family, the vast majority of them are going to find it tough to pay for the next hopefully 4 years. Some will go out on the financial limb to do so and crash when they simply cannot pay anymore. </p>

<p>There is not enough money out there to pay for every kid’s dream college, or every kid’s ideal situation from the choices s/he has when the acceptances come. There are at least a half dozen kids who are turning down NYU with tears in their eyes (and their parents’) because it is just too expensive for them to go there. I say that school because I know this for a fact right now that this situation exists at my son’s school. Some will go there as commuters AND will have to find part time jobs as well because they so want to go there. And,yes, there are some who will go there and have their whole way paid by their parents and whatever package NYU, the government (state and federal) and outside scholarships. </p>

<p>I am seeing an increasing number of families choosing state schools and many whose kids are commuting because that is what is affordable. THe dollar amount to provide boarding college to every kid in that school would be prohibitively high. The good news is that every single kid in that class has a college option that is affordable because of the many state schools, some community college, some 4 year that are around. That doesn’t mean that they are all thrilled to go to their affordable choice, but it has been a long time coming that this situation exists. </p>

<p>I guess our country COULD afford to pay for every single student to go away to college. I can just imagine what would happen to the cost of college then. As it is, colleges say that they are only charging a part of what the true cost is. As it is, most schools integrate whatever state and federal aid a kid gets, into the financial aid packages. I, for one, would rather see that every single child who so desires can go to college, but it would be a local one. Why all of a sudden after high school does boarding school become essential? No one feels it is an entitlement for high school even when some of the high school around here are down right nasty and dangerous. If anyone deserves to be boarded out, it is the kids at some treacherous high schools (and below) in extremely adverse family and community situations. At 18, it is adulthood and not as vulnerable, helpless, needy as small children who are caught in such environments. And yet, there should be that right to go away for college? I don’t think so. I don’t think that one is going to be a go.</p>

<p>The current system is flawed , I agree. There are niches and crevices where it is blatantly unfair. But the way it works is that for those who are in very low income situations, the federal government offers up to $5550 in PELL money. That is enough for most kids to go to a local college, a community college . For those whose families make or have too much for PELL, there is $5500 for the student to borrow with no credit check, no credit history needed. Those who need more than what PELL provides can use that money too, and if there is a need, up to the need level the loan is subsidized with no interest at all charged while in school. </p>

<p>Where there is a serious flaw in our system, in my opinion, is that once those two years of college are done, some areas do not have a good, affordable option to get that 4 year degree. That to me, is where the attention should be focused, and those who are in that predicament are the ones that I feel deserver federal/state/college help the most. But for those who are graduating high school and think that there should be money out there for them to go away to college because they don’t like their local choices, well, um, no, it does not work that way automatically, and I don’t think it should.</p>

91

<p>I think the FA needs to be readjusted. I live on Long Island where there are crazy taxes. My EFC is always calculated to be about $50,000 but that is no where near true. Just because on paper, before taxes and necessary expenses, my family makes good money doesn’t mean my parents can afford to she’ll out 50 grand a year for me to go to college. They don’t take into account high school tuition, mortgages, car payments, and stuff like that.</p>

92

<p>Bekleymacist,</p>

<p>When you see about half of your paycheck going towards taxes, then using the leftover money to pay inflated (inflated because of the grants supporting low income students) tuition fees and then being told you are not contributing enough, you will develop victim complex too.</p>

93

<p>Just to clarify, EFC does not indicate what you can afford. That is for the family to decide. All those expenses mpch13 (besides housing which I know is expensive in NY), are somewhat optional. In Long Island, I see HS tuition, car payments as a choice. Why should your EFC be adjusted down because your family made a choice of nicer cars and HS tuition? The EFC definition is a number generated from a federal form. Nowhere on the form does it say that this number is what the family can afford.</p>

94

<p>Changes in financial aid criterion and having to police it means more funds going that way instead of to the kids. It’s easy to say an area is high rent. My county is very, very high rent. BUT, there are towns in my county that are inexpensive. Still expensive for the quality as compared to other areas, but, hey, living in Scarsdale, for example instead of in Yonkers, and those areas border each other makes a crazy difference in cost, real estate taxes , etc. That is the kind of a fine mesh net that would have to be made to get the housing differentials into perspective. Why should anyone have to pay for the difference in that choice of areas? And I am pointing at only one real life situation here.</p>

95

<p>California residents are getting a wake up call…after years of bragging about how affordable the Cal colleges and universities are, reality has set in, and the ‘deals’ are going away fast…Their tax support is drying up, and even to keep tuitions at a decent level, taxes will be raised or programs will be cut, or liklely tuitions WILL increase…</p>

<p>Laugh of the morning has to go to poster who claimed it wasn’t fair they had an EFC too high, as it didn’t take into consideration their HS TUITION or car payments, ;)</p>

96

<p>Mpch,I think the PROFILE actually does ask for car value & model, there is also a place to put tuition or expenses for siblings.</p>

<p>Now it hasnt been my experience that they use that info to lower your EFC, especially not below FAFSA EFC,but they do look at it.</p>

97

<p>Berkeley quote:</p>

<p>I agree with polarscribe. What is up with the conservatives’ victim complex?’</p>

<p>??? What the heck. Are you implying that only consevatives are affected and are bothered that their $82k incomes get them nothing, but if they earned $79k they’d get about $14k per year? </p>

<p>Are you kidding me? I know many liberal families that are just as annoyed. And, they also are annoyed that the fees keep rising so that the UCs can fund those promises. This is certainly an area that the “left and right” can agree upon when their families are in that income area that is just beyond B&G.</p>

<p>No one begrudges the tuition/fee awards for the low income. But the B&G promise should be a graduated scale. The $79k family shouldn’t get as much as the $55k family. And, the $81k family shouldn’t get nothing. There could tie it all the FAFSA EFC with a graduated award.</p>

98

<p>Some PROFILE schools do take those things into account, some do not.</p>

<p>I feel badly for schools like Santa Monica CC struggling to provide enough classes for the students trying to get through there and then transferring to a 4 year school within a reasonable time period. I’d prefer the funding to go there than for some kid who wants to go away to college.</p>

99

<p>I feel badly for schools like Santa Monica CC struggling to provide enough classes for the students trying to get through there and then transferring to a 4 year school within a reasonable time period. I’d prefer the funding to go there than for some kid who wants to go away to college.</p>

<p>Exactly. Publics that charge tuition that is greater than Pell and a Stafford loan together, should supplement with state aid for the low income. And, as Cpt mentions, the “sleep away” experience is not something that tax-payers should be paying for unless the student doesn’t live near a public univ. But even then, the student will likely live near a CC (more of those around) and could at least go there for 2 years, and then get the aid to go away to a univ.</p>

<p>Many/most majors are offered on every campus. Why have taxpayers pay for an El Ed student to skip over CSUFullerton and go away to - say - San Diego State. Now, if the student/family want to fund that, then fine. And, for those who want to major in something more exotic that isn’t at their local uni, then go to a CC for the first 2 years and then if that major still interests you (which it may not) and your grades qualify, then you could get help to go away.</p>

100

<p>mom2ck,</p>

<p>Would you agree then that the state aid should go only towards last 2 years of public Us charging more than Pell and Stafford? In other words, the tax payers should not be paying for luxury of the first 2 years being completed at the 4 year college?</p>

<p>Basically, unless a student gets merit or their parents are willing to contribute, every student should be prepared to start at CC and then transfer to 4 year college for the last 2 years?</p>

<p>I think this kind of formula will be fair, solve many state financial problems and probably result in lower tuition.</p>